Surviving an Ambush

[Silvarius2000]

LiveLeak.com - B Co 1-26 Infantry in Kornegal Valley, Afghanistan

Hi everyone. This video above contains a helmet video of an ambush on B-Company 1-26 in Korengal Valley, Afghanistan. Watching it has made me want to light up that discussion again on how deadly should players be to other players. The effectiveness of weapons.

As you can see, the ambush was a close call with only one soldier suffering shrapnel injuries but essentially the fire was indirect ineffective fire. Range was from one hillside to another with at least a kilometre to boot as my guess.

Shift this scenario to PR however and I dont think those videos would be telling any tales since that squad would have been wiped out or at least crippled. Or at least the return fire would have been VERY effective and they didnt need to call in arty later.

What do you guys think?

[NewShores]

I think we need to factor in the fun factor. If you have to retreat every time you get ambushed and call in arty, there would be much less fun playing for both insurgent and blufor. Don't forget even if the mod mimic people still play for fun.

[IronTaxi]

personally I agree the situation would play out much different in game.. one squad would probably get wiped out even at distance.. which isnt particulary realistic..

Its actually quite hard to hit someone with a bullet at a distance.. Its more or less spray some bursts and try to get them in the zone of the enemy rather than instant headshots from afar..

LiveLeak.com - B Co 1-26 Infantry in Kornegal Valley, Afghanistan

Hi everyone. This video above contains a helmet video of an ambush on B-Company 1-26 in Korengal Valley, Afghanistan. Watching it has made me want to light up that discussion again on how deadly should players be to other players. The effectiveness of weapons.

As you can see, the ambush was a close call with only one soldier suffering shrapnel injuries but essentially the fire was indirect ineffective fire. Range was from one hillside to another with at least a kilometre to boot as my guess.

Shift this scenario to PR however and I dont think those videos would be telling any tales since that squad would have been wiped out or at least crippled. Or at least the return fire would have been VERY effective and they didnt need to call in arty later.

What do you guys think?

[Jigsaw]

I think what you have to consider when relating the 2 is that ranges in game and in this video are very different. The range between the 2 units is considerable and a similar situation would not occur on PR Korengal Valley as the distance is always much less, making the chances scoring a hit far greater.

Try conducting a firefight with 2 infantry units a kilometre apart in game and see how many men get hit...

[cyberzomby]

I think his point will also be that in-game everyone is trying to snipe. You see the cameraman here firing of a lot of random shots to surpress. That wont happen a lot in a game. The point of the game will still be to kill the enemy in the mindsets of most gamers. I dont think it has anything to do with the way the wounds and deaths work. its just people shoot very different. And the point of close range is valid.

Amazing images in that video btw!

[CanuckCommander]

I think his point will also be that in-game everyone is trying to snipe. You see the cameraman here firing of a lot of random shots to surpress. That wont happen a lot in a game. The point of the game will still be to kill the enemy in the mindsets of most gamers. I dont think it has anything to do with the way the wounds and deaths work. its just people shoot very different. And the point of close range is valid.

Amazing images in that video btw!

In the video, they can't respawn in 30 secs. So they have to keep their heads down. That goes for both INS and BLUFOR. In other words, a video game is still a video game no matter what. You can't simulate realistic behaviors in a video game when the very fundamental rules of life and death do not apply.

[[MPN]Slouch2]

At least the terrain in PR matches that video very closely- well done of that front!

[=Romagnolo=]

That video is very... I don't know, too much tension ? Yeah, crazyness.

But I think the main factor that creates that is the engine in that video

I mean, the possibility of very far view distances and un-mutable land, where the stones and vegetation is always there, so the enemy can hide totally. Other thing, the FEAR FACTOR. In that case, there is no respawn and reviving is very hard to happen. The fear in PR should be stronger than it is actually.

[amazing_retard]

That video is very... I don't know, too much tension ? Yeah, crazyness.

But I think the main factor that creates that is the engine in that video

I mean, the possibility of very far view distances and un-mutable land, where the stones and vegetation is always there, so the enemy can hide totally. Other thing, the FEAR FACTOR. In that case, there is no respawn and reviving is very hard to happen. The fear in PR should be stronger than it is actually.

Well I got a solution: When you die in game, a DEV shows up and kills you in real life! That way people will be crawling for 2,000 meters, and people will start hiding in the corner of the map. You don't have to worry about people stealing ur chopper/jet, because everyone will be to scared to fly! This is the best suggestion ever! You should be scared when playing a video game XD. (I get your point like having no rally points just messing around)
No offense man I like you

[CAS_117]

Try conducting a firefight with 2 infantry units a kilometre apart in game and see how many men get hit...

+ 50% VD on long axis of map - Reviving - Rally spawn

= Win

@amasing_retard: Just lower deviation, remove all spawns except firebases and main base. That should pretty much do it for fear factor.

[Rudd]

I think his point will also be that in-game everyone is trying to snipe. You see the cameraman here firing of a lot of random shots to surpress. That wont happen a lot in a game

Yeah lol, on mesita I got my squad south of the east tower in support of another squad. the enemy fired from the tower, I say to my squad, shoot the tower. But cuz the likihood of actual kills was very low cuz of their cover, they just sat there and stared at me.

"see that attack marker?"
"shoot it"
"huh?"
"Just shoot at it"
"Look, if it makes you feel better, this is an order, shoot the marker"
*blank stares*
*SL begins 1 man supression mission to save sister squad*

[fuzzhead]

"see that attack marker?"
"shoot it"
"huh?"
"Just shoot at it"
"Look, if it makes you feel better, this is an order, shoot the marker"
*blank stares*
*SL begins 1 man supression mission to save sister squad*

LOL yea happens all the time... something you would think most players would have no problem doing " SHOOT YOUR GUN ! "

then when in base, waiting for a transport, they seem to not be able to STOP shooting at everything including friendly vehicles :/

[Outlawz7]

Well most engagements in PR either end up with lots of nade spam and trying to kill the other guy faster via prone diving etc. or one side just died in a timeline of 10 seconds getting picked off.

Even if you remove all the forward spawns, the main mentality is going to be 'kill' first not 'shooting at the enemy who won't die from your fire' which is what most people experienced when they either tried suppressive fire or the deviation was higher and guns wouldn't hit dead-on as much. You need to remove all incentives to kill in PR first if you want people to put their in-game avatar's survival first.

[IronTaxi]

LOL yea happens all the time... something you would think most players would have no problem doing " SHOOT YOUR GUN ! "

then when in base, waiting for a transport, they seem to not be able to STOP shooting at everything including friendly vehicles :/

lol....well yeah...wasnt the average firing rate in the first world war somewhere around 5-10 percent? I remember some outrageously low number...

[Zimmer]

What you must remember is that normal engagment length is maybe 50-200meters this is 1 km? if it was that long in PR we would see the same sort of stuff happening. Marksmen and snipers would be more asked for, and used correctly as long range support for squads.

[daranz]

In PR, "Open up with everything we got!" means "Take a sip of coffee, settle down, bring up the scope, and carefully squeeze off one shot."

It's a result of both suppression not being as effective as it is in real life and the perceived easiness with which you can take someone down. Because of that, people prefer to stand somewhere and take careful shots, disregarding incoming fire, instead of attempting to suppress and maneuver (or call in someone else to help). It turns out into a wild west showdown at noon, with high casualties, which don't really matter all that much if you win.

I think everyone should be forced to play with nothing but ironsights for a week. I rarely ever use scopes, so I naturally developed a habit of putting a lot of fire on the enemy. Hell, I even get people telling me to shoot slower so that my aim settles down... except I'm already aiming at a clump of 5 pixels, so it doesn't really matter all that much.

[Rudd]

It's a result of both suppression not being as effective as it is in real life and the perceived easiness with which you can take someone down.

*evil cackle*

[amazing_retard]

But dying in real life is more realistic CAS
I agree with everything CAS said. To be honest I see whole squads getting wiped out because they don't use suppressing fire. Everyone is so obsessed with getting kills its starting to kill PR. One of the big reason I suppress is so that my squad members don't get killed and it works. But too often I see people trying to take careful aimed shots, and sometimes they get wiped out because of that. People start playing PR like a realism mod, and not CoD4 with deviation.

[Spaz]

lol....well yeah...wasnt the average firing rate in the first world war somewhere around 5-10 percent? I remember some outrageously low number...

But what about the war in Vietnam? Didn't they use an average 2000 bullets for every dead VC or something?

[Twisted Helix]

lol....well yeah...wasnt the average firing rate in the first world war somewhere around 5-10 percent? I remember some outrageously low number...

It was actually that about 90 - 95 % of soldiers in WW1 and WW2 shot to miss or didn't aim. Coupled with that, many suffered strange psychosomatic problems (which was shown in Saving Private Ryan), where their hands or trigger fingers would go strangely numb or dead.

They reckoned that most of the killing was being done by the 5% with psychopathic tendencies , who were just having an absolute whale of a time racking up the frags !

This is in contrast to modern military where training overcomes the natural inclination of one human not to kill his fellow man, and that now 95% aim to kill. Of course this doesn't include beating or fire for effect.