AK-47 Accuracy... really?

[x.trEm*e]

impressive:
your link
i want to rub these videos in the face of the fanboys that keep linking the

compare apples with bananas...

in general I would speak with the millitary advisor or get yourself the test-machine results for the main PR rifles and then adjust the cone spread according to the list...
not just, ow now we set this to blah cuz less accurate than conventional blah

[hiberNative]

The spacing required between shots = far too great.

yeah, but people didn't like the "aim and shoot" gameplay of the earlier versions (which i did), so they added delays.

No it isn't, I'd like to se you fire the AK 47 with <1 second spacings for a whole magazine, see how your shoulder feels

shoulder could take it, but grouping would depend on the range, wouldn't it?

[JKJudgeX]

No it isn't, I'd like to se you fire the AK 47 with <1 second spacings for a whole magazine, see how your shoulder feels

Dude, I have an AK-47 and have done this. I've sat and shot an AK for over 300 rounds in a single sitting, and my shoulder was fine afterwards. I've done a mag with <1 sec spacings on many, many occasions, even putting 30 of 30 on a 6 inch target at 75 yards, less than 1 second spacing. It's not hard... and after a full day of dumping a couple hundred bucks worth of ammo, yeah, you might be a bit bruised on the shoulder, but it's not going to stop you from dumping 5 or 6 mags on enemies on a regular basis.

It doesn't kick that hard. it's not a .308 or 7.62x51, it's 7.62x39... kicks maybe 40% more than a 5.56x45 ... I've fired both, on several occasions... and .308's and 12 gauges and, you name it, I shoot guns a lot.

The only ones that hurt are when you get over the "assault rifle" caliber and move into the main battle rifle and beyond rounds.

You CAN hurt yourself with an AK-47, if you don't properly shoulder it, but, that's instantaneously easy if you've got any firearms experience at all.

Anyway, I'm not here to try and prove my knowledge of guns and rifles, I really like PR, I just think the recoil and spread of some of the weapons are a bit off, and the AK seems to be one of the more mistreated of the bunch... (even the AR is off, especially on that 3 round burst, which, with a 3 round burst you can easily, easily put all 3 rounds center mass on a target at 100 yards)...

I understand that we don't want Rambo running around, but we also don't want gimp-war.

I mean, the data is out there to make it accurate to real life for all of these guns... video evidence of what kinds of groupings at what range, and mechanical fire-test data that indicates the MoA of these rifles when fired by machines...

it shouldn't be too hard, especially for the 5.56 round and the 7.62 round to get accurate groupings based on barrel lengths/weapons, or some abstraction thereof, incorporating human error/fatigue...

You take the MoA ( I would use 2 for the AK, and 1.25 or so for the M-16 ) then you multiply them both by the human error factor, and then give them a recoil value (say 1.1 for the M-16, and 1.3 for the AK), and then compare the groupings you get from stationary position at 100 and 200 yards, single and multiple shots...

It's a couple of days of tweaking, but the reward would be realistic weapons/gameplay, rather than wtf spray and pray.

[hiberNative]

we may have another ak jesus on the forums, gentlemen.

[JKJudgeX]

we may have another ak jesus on the forums, gentlemen.

Well, it just turns out that too many people think poorly of the accuracy of the weapon without ever having fired it.

i would have never bought one myself if I hadn't fired one and realized that within a couple hundred yards, it doesn't matter WHICH rifle you have, but whether you know how to shoot at all... being able to choose between shooting a guy in his left or right ventricle vs. being able to hit him "somewhere" in the heart doesn't really matter...

3 seconds to steady a gun might be to blame... I dunno.

[Zi8]

I like the insurgent weapons now and it doesn't make me vomit every time I have to play with them. But after the changes, the guns might be rubbish again what they used to be in the previous versio and it will grow dislike against insurgency again.

[unrealalex]

I approve of what the OP has to say. I dont see how nerfing the AK further would add to realism. Right now they are fine, now too innacurate but still able to hit things if you take the time to aim. Making them worse would take it to the point where you cant hit a guy in the same room as you

[Ace42]

I've fired both, on several occasions (...) even the AR is off, especially on that 3 round burst, which, with a 3 round burst you can easily, easily put all 3 rounds center mass on a target at 100 yards (...)
I understand that we don't want Rambo running around, but we also don't want gimp-war (...)
I mean, the data is out there to make it accurate to real life for all of these guns (...)
it shouldn't be too hard (...)
You take the MoA ( I would use 2 for the AK, and 1.25 or so for the M-16 ) then you multiply them both by the human error factor, and then give them a recoil value (say 1.1 for the M-16, and 1.3 for the AK), and then compare the groupings you get from stationary position at 100 and 200 yards, single and multiple shots...
It's a couple of days of tweaking, but the reward would be realistic weapons/gameplay, rather than wtf spray and pray.

This is what I've been saying for a while. People are going to think I've created a clone account and started multi-posting.

[Medve]

Look, the AK is good. It's good ingame, in reality but remember please this isn't a reality simulation ONLY, this is a GAME too. I'm fairly confident that if the team made an AK-47 to be 95% close in accuracy to M16, with the stopping power and the burst fire-handling kept intact, the taliban guys would seriously be overpowered.

Also, I'm getting tired of AK this and AK that, the weapon is accurate ingame anyway. Best headshot-giver ever also the very best close range assault rifle.

Sorry, I didn't want to be aggresive, maybe not everything was taken into account. Probably if you're an insurgent who has a 40 year old AK with the same age bullets, and you're without too much shooting experience, you can't really be super accurate.

Medve

[Vege]

M4
some m4 shooting - Xfire Video
VS
AKSU (or watewa it's called )
AK aka easy mode - Xfire Video
100 Meters.
Still not the distanse i would normally shoot my AK but will manage as an example.
I would say AK is a lazer weapon compared to burts M4.
Nerfing it is imho needed.

And I even suck with the recoil.

[Jigsaw]

seems that going after all your posts you are a freaking uber pro with unhuman powers and where life in PR-nights is too easy for you as you sit there smoking a cigar and drinking a beer and kill everyone now with closed eyes...

as you need more and more things that make a little PR soldiers life harder...

You are kinda my hero now you know
(sry for offtopic)

Lol, don't let him fool ya. He's actually the biggest n00b

[Bob_Marley]

i've never shot an ak47, but from what i've understood, ammo has a noticeable effect on grouping. i've also understood that there's a slight difference comparing top shelf ammunition in western stores through a gun you might own.

To further the point, the ammunition used in the video, 124gr. FMJ made by Wolf, isn't particulary fantastic. Its part of Wolf's "military classic" range which is essentially thier budget line. Its Russian made, bi-metal (a thin coating of copper on the outside of the jacket, the remainder being steel) jacketed lead cored round. Its pretty much as close as one is going to get to Russian military specification ammunition when it comes to civilian ammunition (the only real differences are likley to be that the case is laquered instead of being polymer coated and that the actual projectile is of the older M43 pattern with a steel core). link to Wolf Ammunition.

So as far as the ammo goes, that vid is a pretty accurate representation of how an AK-47 would perform

[gazzthompson]

the test is at 25 yards , surely most weapons are accurate at that range?

[JKJudgeX]

M4
some m4 shooting - Xfire Video
VS
AKSU (or watewa it's called )
AK aka easy mode - Xfire Video
100 Meters.
Still not the distanse i would normally shoot my AK but will manage as an example.
I would say AK is a lazer weapon compared to burts M4.
Nerfing it is imho needed.

And I even suck with the recoil.

1) The groupings on those full-auto-bursts are much wider than man-sized, dude. That's 100 meters. We've shown videos now of people holding together a grouping with full auto with much more accuracy with BOTH weapons.

2) The discussion here isn't really all that much about FULL AUTO RAMBO MODE. I'm talking single shots in rapid succession, which is the vast majority of what is used on any weapon outside of 50 meters, unless your whole squad is laying suppressing fire or shooting at a moving car or something...

Those are good sample videos though... but the groupings a real soldier can get full auto with either weapon are even STILL far superior to what is shown therein... your grouping should NOT, at 100 yards, be randomly dispersed throughout that whole arch that you're shooting (it's like 6 meters tall at least) at + hitting the ground a few meters ahead of yourself as you try to correct your aim? Nah. I guarantee that from a stationary position, crouched and braced, I could put just about every round of an AK-mag through the window of a house at 100 yards, with perhaps 3-4 strays on my first attempt as I got used to the recoil, etc. and I'm no soldier, I'm not even good.

And, that's the 74, which fires a round very similar to the m4 in your video there, which I didn't even notice.

[Zi8]

M4
some m4 shooting - Xfire Video
VS
AKSU (or watewa it's called )
AK aka easy mode - Xfire Video
100 Meters.
Still not the distanse i would normally shoot my AK but will manage as an example.
I would say AK is a lazer weapon compared to burts M4.
Nerfing it is imho needed.

And I even suck with the recoil.

Heh that AKS-74U is sweet thing but we are talking about AK-47 here I can understand nerfing this gun but not the AK-47.

[jaspercat444]

Heh that AKS-74U is sweet thing but we are talking about AK-47 here I can understand nerfing this gun but not the AK-47.

NO! Don't nerf my baby

[ReadMenace]

So the next patch will, wait... DECREASE AK-47 accuracy?

...using heavier, more penetrating M16 ammo, you will lose accuracy, using lighter, less penetrating AK-47 ammo, you will gain accuracy.

First, let me say that I too own a couple Kalashnikovs and an AR15. And that the AK47 has been and continues (into .869) to be my favorite weapon in game. Even with the accuracy decrease in the next release, I continue to be able to engage and kill enemies out to 300m.

As for bullet weights & accuracy, these things are not directly related, and your statement is incorrect. If we took a regular M16 (prior to the A2 model) you would find that the barrel is rifled at a rate of 1 rotation in 12 inches (1:12). This rate is great for stabilizing the light bullet initially issued with the M16 (55gr.) When NATO decided that this bullet weight was not performing to their expectations, they opted for a heavier weight (62gr.) This resulted in horrible accuracy from the M16, as it's rifling was inadequate in stabilizing the new round. As a result, the new M16A2 was rifled in 1:7, allowing it to stabilize the new 62gr bullet, and potentially even heavier bullets.

Currently, the Mk12 SPR -utilized by US special forces- utilizes a 77gr bullet and a 1:7, 18" barrel.

If anything, increased bullet weight reduces the effects of wind on a bullet's path.

-REad

[Rudd]

Lol, don't let him fool ya. He's actually the biggest n00b

Only with RKGs...don't right click kids.

You are kinda my hero now you know

When I put the effort in, my squad is usually top scorer with a positive K/D,and I often get the best score, and mostly I get K/Ds of more than 2:1. But plenty of times I'm a n00b

my xfire is trekkyaaron if you fancy squadding up sometime.

[Human_001]

I can't remember how many times I got sniped by M16 while sniping US main base at Archer from 540 meter away.

Any rifle can reach that far. Even cheap WWII submachine gun. But Light & Fast 5.56mm can't do much damage to human being at 540 meter. Sure it will kill if you are lucky enough to shoot right on forehead. Even .22 pistol will do. But with bullet only being 4grams I highly doubt if its stopping power are left if any after about 200 meter. Even more so with short barrel M4.

I for one is 7.62x39mm bias people.
I take professionals word for it. From Mikhail Kalashnikov himself. This sounds bit strange because quote originally is not in English.
"I started my challenge on new project were I have to adopt my gun to use small caliber. During Vietnam war, American military employed new smaller caliber 5.56mm. If I had to choose one, I was on side of against using these small caliber for Soviet military. Even now I'm still convinced that 7.62mm caliber is superior. But oversea arms makers are already on this new objective and we couldn't stay behind."

I don't disagree with AK47 having low accuracy over 300m compare to other factions rifles. Afterall thats why Russian Ground Force equip squad with 1 SVD each. Because they think AKs effective range is about up to 300m. Even if bullet has its energy, if it can't hit it it's ineffective.

Please. Don't nerf AK accuracy at range that is not innacurate in real life. Please don't put in stereotypical factor like Insurgent can't shoot. Please give player realistically simulated weapon for all faction. Players are to decide if they can hit or not.

Why would anyone want to play such stereotypically depicted faction were you can't put in your own video game skill for shooting, and have to act like Insurgents in Generation Kill that sprays bullet like idiot with firehose and forced to lose. This should be AIs job in single player.

[ThunderGod]

wow you guys really think this game is a 1:1 scale of real life war and guns huh?

let me ask this, if PR is so realistic then why do you pull the bolt back on your rifle every time you pull it out? in REAL LIFE that would eject a live round, giving you one less round in your magazine, and why do you pull the bolt back when you reload if the magazine your taking out of the gun is not empty? that would also eject a live round. The only time you would need to pull the bolt back is when the gun jams (which they do not in PR, I guess in real life GUNS NEVER JAM BECAUSE THEY DONT IN THE GAME) or when you insert a new magazine after your old one was completely empty, also in REAL LIFE you dont have to slap the forward assist on the M16 after inserting a new magazine

also none of the rifles in the game ARE DOUBLE ACTION you know how when your out of ammo and you click the mouse(pulling the trigger) the weapon keeps going click click click, well in the real world rifles are not double action (meaning every time you pull the trigger the hammer moves backward until it slams forward) you would only hear one click and probably only on the AK because it does not have a bolt hold open after the last shot is fired so when it dry fire's then you know your magazine is empty, the M16 I know would not click at all when it is empty because the bolt is held open upon firing the last shot thus making it impossible to drop the hammer

also the sks's bolt holds open after shooting the last round and would not click not even once when it is empty

but oh IT JUST LOOKS SO BAD *** TO CYCLE YOUR BOLT WHEN YOU PULL YOUR RIFLE OUT SO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU MEAN BUSINESS