Luda's AA thinking...

[Alex6714]

This isnt true u get a warning when ur aquiring lock its called being painted its not the same tone as the lock tone but u do get a warning when lock is gettin aquired.

No you don´t.

Ye but u can zoom in on the aa so u should be able to get some of the flares out of view,

Zooming in won´t change the lock angle, so no, you can´t make them go out of view.

[Royal_marine_machine]

It would just become arcadey, Stingers Don't miss often in the hands of a skilled solider,

Falklands campaign, SAS team using stinger 1/6 shots hit.

The SAS are definatley skilles soldiers... trying to hit a jet with a stinger is hard!

Not sure about Helis though.

AA doesn't seem to force anyone to fly unrealisticly, attack helicopters when giving CAS Do generally fly miles above the gorund, out of AA range, hovering so the gunner can have a good shot.

At the moment AA has the effect of making helicopters "hug" the ground,i.e keep as low as possible and go into valleys, ditches behind hills etc. to minimize the effect, much like heli's in reality.

I think that AA shouldn't be so harmful, it should just bash the Heli/Jet so much that it isdiffcult to keep under control, almost impossible. So that skilled pilots could return to base and get themselves fixed up, but, this has denied ground forces CAS/Infantry support for a while. If the pilot isn't skilled they will simply loose control and come crashing down to earth.

[dominator200]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominator200
This isnt true u get a warning when ur aquiring lock its called being painted its not the same tone as the lock tone but u do get a warning when lock is gettin aquired.

No you don´t.

Well ur partiacly right acutualy read this and its off a defence website of an interview of a pilot.

If it's a missile shot you might see the missile come off the rail. Your radar warning gear might tell you that you're being locked up.

Notice how it says ur being locked up or painted not locked

DefenseLink News Transcript: Iraq No-Fly Zone Pilot Interview with KSLR Radio

[Alex6714]

Well in real life yes of course, the Apache for example has a defense suite which will detect even the direction from which incoming SAMs are coming from. If its a radar or laser missile it will detect that before the launch.

I was talking about in game.

[Sgt. Mahi]

I find that helicopter pilots in PR are our little talked about lone-wolves.

THANK YOU!! I'm so tired of pilots whining about hard they have it when all they think about is getting kills. They do very little teamwork.

I say let enemy inf kill choppers at main or anywhere they get the chance. Choppers are so deadly that they should be taken out when ever there's a chance for it. Pilots can request back up from the rest of the squad just like anyone else. If there's an AA gun somewhere ask if there's sq that can deal with it before you go in there. If there's a technical outside of main shooting at choppers taking of: ASK THE TEAM FOR HELP! It's not that hard.

[Teuvo]

AA balance is ok now. We don't want to get organized Infantry action completely raped by overpowered lonewolfy attack choppers?

Already happened in BF2 vanilla.

[Royal_marine_machine]

Yh I do agree, the main n00bs left are Pilots nowadays thinking they can get Megakillz with thair jet n attack choppa skillz...

I've actually seena squad called Choppaz...

[LudacrisKill]

Falklands campaign, SAS team using stinger 1/6 shots hit.

The SAS are definatley skilles soldiers... trying to hit a jet with a stinger is hard!

Not sure about Helis though.

AA doesn't seem to force anyone to fly unrealisticly, attack helicopters when giving CAS Do generally fly miles above the gorund, out of AA range, hovering so the gunner can have a good shot.

At the moment AA has the effect of making helicopters "hug" the ground,i.e keep as low as possible and go into valleys, ditches behind hills etc. to minimize the effect, much like heli's in reality.

I think that AA shouldn't be so harmful, it should just bash the Heli/Jet so much that it isdiffcult to keep under control, almost impossible. So that skilled pilots could return to base and get themselves fixed up, but, this has denied ground forces CAS/Infantry support for a while. If the pilot isn't skilled they will simply loose control and come crashing down to earth.

Flying high out of reach of aa? That doesnt make sense at all... you cant fly out of reach of aa and see the ground on any map!

My main point of of this thread is that you cant fly the attack choppers like in RL.

You cant hover, dont say you can because you cant. Ofc there is a diff between testing your luck vs AA and, a better appoach, staying alive.

Thats why I want the aa more of a air blocker like mines are used some of the time. When you deploy a mine you are blocking a route for veh. Usually th emine is seen easily. (I think Rhino said the mine should be used more as a blocker).

So the AA blocks air craft from the area around it. The cobra will hover slowly forward and then get locked and must retreat. Rather than slowly forward, lock dead.

This is how I think it would better gameplay.

Alex made a perfect point that the AA requaires no teamwork at all. I think this is a big problem.

Also someone was commenting on teh thread name? I made it because I thought more people would be intrested on whats inside.

[LudacrisKill]

Yh I do agree, the main n00bs left are Pilots nowadays thinking they can get Megakillz with thair jet n attack choppa skillz...

I've actually seena squad called Choppaz...

If aa was a little more forgiving then people wouldnt get mad at the noobs as much and they wouldnt get so fustrated. The onyl people that will lose out big time on the other team are AA whores, that just sit in aa all round.

[Alex6714]

THANK YOU!! I'm so tired of pilots whining about hard they have it when all they think about is getting kills. They do very little teamwork.

I say let enemy inf kill choppers at main or anywhere they get the chance. Choppers are so deadly that they should be taken out when ever there's a chance for it. Pilots can request back up from the rest of the squad just like anyone else. If there's an AA gun somewhere ask if there's sq that can deal with it before you go in there. If there's a technical outside of main shooting at choppers taking of: ASK THE TEAM FOR HELP! It's not that hard.

I am tired of every pilot assumed to being a lone wolf. The problem is getting that help, I ask for it all the time and get very little, its up to the infantry to actually do something. I fear this is why most pilots are branded lone wolf, because they end up having to do it themselves anyway.

In a 0.86 jabal test game it worked very well because both the infantry and pilots were competent, in public, most of the time the majority of both aren´t.

[Sgt. Mahi]

I am tired of every pilot assumed to being a lone wolf. The problem is getting that help, I ask for it all the time and get very little, its up to the infantry to actually do something. I fear this is why most pilots are branded lone wolf, because they end up having to do it themselves anyway.

In a 0.86 jabal test game it worked very well because both the infantry and pilots were competent, in public, most of the time the majority of both aren´t.

You're right of course but sometimes I just get frustrated with the complaining from pilots when I acutally think the whole "air vs aa" is pretty well balanced these days. I apologize if I seemed a little... angry

[LudacrisKill]

You're right of course but sometimes I just get frustrated with the complaining from pilots when I acutally think the whole "air vs aa" is pretty well balanced these days. I apologize if I seemed a little... angry

Not at all .

Problem I find is that to combat AA effectively you must be quite high skilled, exp and clever. While manning a AA doesnt take much rocket science.

Maybe we can think fo a way to make AA more teamwork based.

[Teuvo]

"AA requaires no teamwork at all. I think this is a big problem."


First of all you have to build firebase with squad to get acces to proper anti-air weaponry. Then you have to build anti-inf defences and defend the firebase to able to use AA without being harassed by enemy ground forces. You think this requires no teamwork?

Pilots on the other hand take their pickup kit, jump in attack chopper and maybe teamkills couple teammates who try to stole "their" chopper. Of course this does not apply to every pilot, but I see this childish behavior rather often.


This was very nicely put:

if there's an AA gun somewhere ask if there's sq that can deal with it before you go in there. If there's a technical outside of main shooting at choppers taking of: ASK THE TEAM FOR HELP! It's not that hard.

[Truism]

I'm not going to say that using AA is a highly skilled activity, or that more skills shouldn't be introduced to it, but at the moment the AA/Air balance is not skewed in favour of AA like you seem to think.

Problem I find is that to combat AA effectively you must be quite high skilled, exp and clever.

This is probably the silliest description of pressing the X button once every thirty seconds I have heard. Attack Choppers are already unbelievably powerful standoff platforms because AA missiles can't lock onto them in standoff situations. You are just doing it wrong.

[R.J.Travis]

Falklands campaign, SAS team using stinger 1/6 shots hit.

The SAS are definatley skilles soldiers... trying to hit a jet with a stinger is hard!

Not sure about Helis though.

AA doesn't seem to force anyone to fly unrealisticly, attack helicopters when giving CAS Do generally fly miles above the gorund, out of AA range, hovering so the gunner can have a good shot.

At the moment AA has the effect of making helicopters "hug" the ground,i.e keep as low as possible and go into valleys, ditches behind hills etc. to minimize the effect, much like heli's in reality.

I think that AA shouldn't be so harmful, it should just bash the Heli/Jet so much that it isdiffcult to keep under control, almost impossible. So that skilled pilots could return to base and get themselves fixed up, but, this has denied ground forces CAS/Infantry support for a while. If the pilot isn't skilled they will simply loose control and come crashing down to earth.

Well trust me the 3 maps that have these attack helicopter will be laughed at 6 Six 50cal rounds disable it!

In (0.869)

I would love to see the H-AT Aiming System added to the Stinger where you need to stop moving wait for your solider to chill out then try and get a lock.

Right now its just pull it out run out in the open get your lock fire before flares dead helicopter just to fake.

I'm sick of the Stinger being used as nukes in insurgency you can wipe out half of a village and kill everyone and the caches its cheap and ruins game play.

It need the wait aim thing just like the H-AT.

[Alex6714]

Ok. Helicopter missiles require a lase to be used effectively, AA doesn´t

Firebase aa marginally requires teamwork, but very little. Some guy can just spawn there and use it.

Manpads require no work at all, and are very easy to use at the same time having too much range and are very easy to hide. Noty only that they can go and camp somewhere near the main with no help at all.


Further more, infantry squads do nothing about aa unless they chance upon it, because it doesn´t directly affect them. Only in a tournament environment does this happen. Now thats a player problem, bu8t measures can be made to balance it.


If you think AA has anything like the teamwork required as an aircraft does, you haven´t flown in PR very much.


Imo AA isn´t too powerful, but aircraft are nerfed too much (spawn time, unrealistic neccessity of lase, low view distance, huge abundance of AA including non seeking variants VS aicraft).

[dominator200]

Not at all .

Problem I find is that to combat AA effectively you must be quite high skilled, exp and clever. While manning a AA doesnt take much rocket science.

Maybe we can think fo a way to make AA more teamwork based.

Na i dnt think that if ur in a jet then u stay in the clouds like 800 ft, the way iv bin doin it in kashan is have a good a10 pilot squad leader and 2x sniper and they sit in the hills spottin targets and give locations the probs that i find is wen other squads do laser targets a marker doesnt show up on the map to show were the marker is but if u have good pilots all they have to do is stay in the clouds untill u get markers for lasers

[Royal_marine_machine]

I'm not going to say that using AA is a highly skilled activity, or that more skills shouldn't be introduced to it, but at the moment the AA/Air balance is not skewed in favour of AA like you seem to think.



This is probably the silliest description of pressing the X button once every thirty seconds I have heard. Attack Choppers are already unbelievably powerful standoff platforms because AA missiles can't lock onto them in standoff situations. You are just doing it wrong.

lol, I like the simpleness of this comment

@ The Person who said Using AA requires no teamwork, if the enemy has competant Infantry they will try to take out that Firebase, therefore the person on the AA needs people to protect him/her.

@ the person saying about infantry not taking out AA, I ocne was in a squad that, at great cost, managed to take out all the AA in one area in barracuda, and secure a safe LZ, proved it was safe by having a Heli with a full squad land there, and it waited for a few seconds on the ground, then took off and RTB without a scratch, and the other pilots still landed troops on beaches, saying to the squads inside "Alright it's gonna be a hot LZ" because they were either fools, or wanted to sound cool by saying "Oh My God it's a hot LZ!"

[dominator200]

on public servers theres nothin u can do, however i think there should be markers on the map that come on wen a targets is lased the biggest prob is wen they say target lased and dnt give a location for it

[Drav]

The problem isnt the game, the problem is the players and the communications. We played a tournament game against NATO1 on Muttrah and they used their Cobra properly. In 3 hours I think we killed it maybe once. We won the game, but putting any kind of defences on the rooves of building etc etc just got them destroyed, as if ground troops spotted anything, they relayed its position and it got taken out. We had to be very careful with our APCs, and overall it was a pretty deadly asset.

Deployable AA is pretty easy to kill if you know where it is, the problem is most players really dont care. Luda you comment that if you can hover you're not playing against high skill troops, but in the same way you could say that if you're not getting lases and AA positions relayed to you, then you're not playing with high skilled troops either.


If i was to change anything about the helos, I'd make the laser marker visible from further away than at present.