[Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
Rhino
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[Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Rhino »

Hey all.

Many of you seem to think that the choppers where removed from Qwai, Al Basrah etc just for a change of gameplay or w/e.

This is not true, the main reason for them being removed was in fact because of the annoying "Sound Bug" problems experienced in previous releases.

[R-DEV]Jaymz did lots of work on finding the cause of the sound bug and eventually found out that it was caused by the maps view distance (VD) being lower than the vehicles engine sound distance. As such, when the vehicle hit the edge of the players VD at the time, the sound would simply stick on the edge of that VD until that aircraft came back into the players view or the vehicle was destroyed.

As such, the choices we had where to either increase the maps VD (which for most maps is not an option due to performance reasons) or to remove the vehicle off the map, or to lower the vehicles sound distance.

For Qwai and Al Basrah, the VD could not be increased without huge performance impact, as such, the vehicles where removed off of them. On Qwai the VD was soo low that even the Type 98 (Chinese Tank) was even triggering the sound bug thou it was a rare occurrence compared to the choppers, and as such that also went.


Here is the detailed info on this for any mappers that need to keep this in mind etc.
'[R-DEV wrote:Jaymz']This is a template for mappers to reference when deciding upon the view distance of a map.


Jets

If your map doesn't have a view distance of at least 1km, you will have the sound bug with jets. Hence, players will hear invisible jets all over the map. British and Chinese jets currently have a 800m distance thou as Qinling couldn't have its VD increased but still advised to have a 1km or above VD even if you only have British and or Chinese jets on your map.

Helicopters

If your map doesn't have a view distance of at least 800m, you will have the sound bug with helicopters. Hence, players will hear invisible helicopters all over the map.

Tanks and all large tracked vehicles

If your map doesn't have a view distance of at least 600m, you will have the sound bug with tanks and other large tracked vehicles. Hence, players will hear invisible tracked vehicles all over the map.

Other vehicles

Granted the maps view distance is over 300m, no issues will be had with any other vehicle type in PR.


Deciding between view distance and assets on a new map for PR

Simple, if you are going to make a map with helicopters on it, make sure the view distance is 800m minimum. If it's less, people are going to be hearing invisible helicopters all over the map (examples in 0.85 being Jabal, Barracuda and Qwai).

Deciding between view distance and assets on a current map in PR already

Qwai river is a prime example. Right now, the sound bug gets triggered several times for all players in a round due to the scout choppers flying around. It's also triggered occasionally by the PLA tank. To avoid the sound bug, this map either needs these assets removed, or needs to have it's view distance completely overhauled. The latter being unlikely because it was designed for it's current (short) view distance.

I hope that clears some things up for thous of you with questions as to why the Choppers where removed from Al Basrah and Qwai etc.


Cheers.
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supahpingi
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by supahpingi »

Ty for the heads up mate
Noobofthenight
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Noobofthenight »

In my opinion, the sound bug was never that game-breaking to justify this, but I'm not a developer :)
Smuke
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Smuke »

Glad to hear you found the cause for the bug.
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FuzzySquirrel
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by FuzzySquirrel »

I haven't heard the sound bug since .75 tho...

I'd rather have a Strategic asset that can change the game and put up with a Small Annoyance then Have no Slight Irritation and No Exciting Assets...
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Zrix
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Zrix »

Interesting.
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Brummy
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Brummy »

Is it possible to optimise Qwai and Basrah for the according VD?
Rhino
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Rhino »

Brummy wrote:Is it possible to optimise Qwai and Basrah for the according VD?
its possible yes, Qwai has the potential to have a lot of optimization work done to it as there are loads of settings that are off but fixing these would take a huge amount of rework of the map etc.

Al Basrah, dunno how much more you can get out of that tbh, the LMs are already on medium settings and I spent ages in the past getting it to the point it is now from the extra laggy v0.5 version if any of you remember that.
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Oddsodz
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Oddsodz »

Don't do any more work on the old maps. they seem fine really. Just get to work on the 12KM maps I read about somewhere. Then we can have all the toys we could ever want. Right now we are limited to Kashen and Battle for Q. The Ground pounders have got there maps. Time for the Whores to get some love :)
Brummy
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Brummy »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:its possible yes, Qwai has the potential to have a lot of optimization work done to it as there are loads of settings that are off but fixing these would take a huge amount of rework of the map etc.

Al Basrah, dunno how much more you can get out of that tbh, the LMs are already on medium settings and I spent ages in the past getting it to the point it is now from the extra laggy v0.5 version if any of you remember that.
Ah, nice :)

Just a question, if someone would say change their view distance in their video settings, would that affect the sound bug?
Expendable Grunt
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Expendable Grunt »

Thanks for the heads up, though you could have brought this up earlier.

I think Qwai is very deserving of some optimization. It's a fine map, one of the best due to its simplicity and varied terrain. It would be nice to have a tank layer on that map again.

M.
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Rhino
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Rhino »

Brummy wrote:Ah, nice :)

Just a question, if someone would say change their view distance in their video settings, would that affect the sound bug?
yes it would, but we leave that upto the user to decide. Its better to allow low gfx users to play with lower VD and the sound bug than not at all as there system wouldn't be able to run it on higher settings.
Expendable Grunt wrote:Thanks for the heads up, though you could have brought this up earlier.

I think Qwai is very deserving of some optimization. It's a fine map, one of the best due to its simplicity and varied terrain. It would be nice to have a tank layer on that map again.

M.
Ye, I only just realized that this has not been stated any where officaly on the public forums so thought this topic was very much needed.

And ye, Qwai could do with some, and could really do with some Overgrowth fields too but right now most of us our putting most of our time into new maps rather than fixing up old ones :)


Cheers.
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Oddsodz
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Oddsodz »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:now most of us our putting most of our time into new maps rather than fixing up old ones :)


Cheers.

Now you have said it. It's Foot/Mouth time ;)

[Hint]GR9 please[/hint]
J.F.Leusch69
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by J.F.Leusch69 »

but wouldnt it be possible to add modded .tweak´s and.con´s of the sound-bugging vehicales on the map, that way you would only have the vehicales with such a small engine sound on that maps...

and for futur maps you just do it like jaymz said it.
Rhino
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Rhino »

J.F.Leusch69 wrote:but wouldnt it be possible to add modded .tweak´s and.con´s of the sound-bugging vehicales on the map, that way you would only have the vehicales with such a small engine sound on that maps...

and for futur maps you just do it like jaymz said it.
yes it is but it would end up in a cluster f*ck in coding terms.
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[uBp]Irish
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by [uBp]Irish »

i never really thought the sound bug was that annoying. if anything you'd think you heard a helo coming, do a quick 360, see nothing and keep going. Qwai i thought was always fun with Helo's as it gave it another aspect to how the USMC get's around vs. the chinese tanks.. however, since both those are removed, it just seems basic.
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666PROTECTOR
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by 666PROTECTOR »

oh thx GOD that you have found couse of Sound Bug!
it is more anoying tahn random restarts!

so we cant simply lower hear distance of sound? it wouldn't HALP! ?
:gob_icon_ kill sound bug by all means necessary!
Playing Battlefield series since 2002 & Studing Antropology :gamestudies
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bad_nade
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by bad_nade »

I have had sound bugs not only from choppers, but strykers, supply trucks and even molotovs. How does these fit into view distance theory?
Rhino
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Re: [Official Statement] Why some assets have been removed from some maps

Post by Rhino »

clueless_noob wrote:I have had sound bugs not only from choppers, but strykers, supply trucks and even molotovs. How does these fit into view distance theory?
some sound cards work very differently from others, can you take a video of these bugs to ensure they are the same, also noting down what map they are and seeing if any one had driven then or w/e, also try and reproduce them with a friend on a empty server etc if possible too.

Also do you have your VD % lowered in your GFX settings?

Also is this in v0.86 you are having the sound bug and what sound card do you have?
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