Is no zoom on ironsights really realistic?

[vman_alpha]

Yup, I have to agree with solid knight. IRL I actually did miss a shot in basic training because I became fixated on the long range targets and "losed" my FOV. I missed a 50yrd target and didn't even realize it was there until it started to drop, which was too late. Although, I didn't recognize it when it came up. I will admit though that my Kevlar was also part of the problem, something you don't have to deal with ingame.

out for now... V-MAN
ALPHA Company! HURA!!!

[CanuckCommander]

Not just iron sights, but also the Aimpoint sight as well. 2-4x zoom would be good. Personally, I don't think 4x zoom would be overkill because remember that the Acogs still have a better and much clearer sight picture than any iron sights at that range.

In addition, I propose that animation times be lowered by a lot. By doing so, it'll allow 2 modes of zoom for ALL rifles. Right click once and you get the CQB mode we currently have. And right click again, then you get the zoomed mode.

Why add the zoom? First it is realistic. Second, it evens out the differences between insurgents without opitcs with US forces with optics. Third, it improves INF combat by a mile as demonstrated by the recent addition of zoom to the Automatic Rifleman.

[gclark03]

Why aren't we using the FH2 shader focus system? It has to be available to us now.

[Wizrdwarts]

Not just iron sights, but also the Aimpoint sight as well. 2-4x zoom would be good. Personally, I don't think 4x zoom would be overkill because remember that the Acogs still have a better and much clearer sight picture than any iron sights at that range.

In addition, I propose that animation times be lowered by a lot. By doing so, it'll allow 2 modes of zoom for ALL rifles. Right click once and you get the CQB mode we currently have. And right click again, then you get the zoomed mode.

Why add the zoom? First it is realistic. Second, it evens out the differences between insurgents without opitcs with US forces with optics. Third, it improves INF combat by a mile as demonstrated by the recent addition of zoom to the Automatic Rifleman.

I think 4x zoom with ironsights is overkill. Insurgents don't get optics for a reason, and good luck hitting anything with the AK-47 even with zoom.

The vBF2 level of ironsights zoom (1.67x for most guns) is good enough to make seeing distant targets easier but not be total overkill. I think 1.5x would be reasonable.

[CanuckCommander]

I think 4x zoom with ironsights is overkill. Insurgents don't get optics for a reason, and good luck hitting anything with the AK-47 even with zoom.

The vBF2 level of ironsights zoom (1.67x for most guns) is good enough to make seeing distant targets easier but not be total overkill. I think 1.5x would be reasonable.

Have you tried the new MEC LMG? That is exactly what every rifle should be like. Even though the zoom is to substitute optics for now, the zoom makes the iron sights more realistic and it feels natural to use it.

With 4x zoom you can definitely SEE targets at 200m, something that the current iron sights have trouble doing. In addition to deviation, recoil and a whole bunch of other factors, it would definitely turn rifles into sniper rifles. It would improve the game because the better people can see bullet impacts and their targets, the more accurate at shooting they become. And the more accurate the shooting is, as demonstrated by the improved LMGs of .86, people play more realistically, using cover and not running into the open without smoke.

[McBumLuv]

I wouldn't give irons any more than a 1.5 zoom, if that. Canuck I can see your reasonning behind making the ironsights up to 4x zoom, but then you could give the same reasonning about sights and bring them to 8 times zoom because you don't have as many pixels as you have retinas capturing information.

The difference being, that while you can focus much easier, and don't necessarily have a reasolution limit (Thouhgh IIRC people have around a few billion dots worth of "pixels", as each retina catpures them), but IRL the ease of seeing someone is quite a bit dictated by their % tanken up of your sight, which you'll still see ingame, but a zoom at ~1.3 times would at least facilitate how you can see better through the center of your vision, especially if a small blur effect is given on the edges.

I have to say, I don't mind the lack of zoom, but I don't think it was detrimental or would be.

[Ca6e]

Hay there.
I like to say this, eyes have no zoom and i like thet way couse then will be all boobs 2 times larger.
But they could changed one thing, they could put ironsight little bit closer to the eyes. When i shoot with AK47 IRL with ironsight, first ironsight is pretty big second one is smaller but it cover standing man on 100m.
Next time i will attached i rel life picture of shooting with AK47 to see the point of view.
Solute

[CyC_AnD]

Guys you are forgetting that we have tunnel vision already in game. FOV in game is about 60 degrees? or 90? still about half what we have in real life which means that at the moment in game we run all the time with one eye closed... For me ironsight with no zoom is perfect.

[Killer-Ape]

I like the current way without zoom, perhaps it works better on resolutions above 1600x1200.
Most games that use iron-sight aiming also use a slight iron-sight zoom and I find it good that PR decided to break this trend. As other people stated above, eye focus doesn’t equal zoom, so to say its realistic would be wrong, even if the human eye has no resolution limit. Just a cheap fix and immersion breaker in my opinion, (cybernetic eye implants that give you 1,5x sight zoom?). My current resolution is at 1920x1200 and never any problems using iron-sights I want to keep it the way it is but I can understand that this might not apply to players using lower resolutions.

[RHYS4190]

agreed 1x 1.5x would make things a lot more realistic, because of the monitor's we see thing's in game a lot smaller then they appear in RL. the 1,5 zoom on the iron sight would help compensate for that,

And the 1.5x zoom would not be a hindrance in close quarter’s ether.

[Raic]

agreed 1x 1.5x would make things a lot more realistic, because of the monitor's we see thing's in game a lot smaller then they appear in RL. the 1,5 zoom on the iron sight would help compensate for that,

And the 1.5x zoom would not be a hindrance in close quarter’s ether.

1x zoom sounds cool, oh wait!
Honestly only problem I have with iron sights right now is that the aiming hole is so small in some weapons its annoying to follow targets. And if you can't see the targets without zoom, how do you know when to bring up the sights and start firing at the targets?

[fallingcoconut]

As it stands now, rifleman ironsights is possibly the most useless combat-oriented kit in game. At most combat ranges (100-200M) it is currently near impossible to differentiate between friend and foe because of the way the BF2 renders characters at long distances. At these ranges, one either has to refer to the map (taking a precious 5 seconds) or aim at the target for 5 seconds (inconsistent). Both of the aforementioned methods take up a substantial amount of time, after which the target is often out of sight anyways.

The current aimpoint sight is excessively large, as it obscures almost the entire target at longer ranges. Aimpoint sights tend to have 1-2 MOA dots, and the current sight has some strange 20 MOA dot.

The aimpoint and ironsights should at least be somewhat effective in most of the situations presented in PR, rather than only in CQB room clearing situations (which rarely, if ever, occurs). In CQB, the ironsights, aimpoint, and the ACOG scopes should become slightly more effective than the ARs to simulate the reduced weight and shortened length of a carbine.

Due to the extremely open terrain found in most of PR, ironsights should have a slight zoom not for the sake of sheer realism, but rather to compensate for engine limitations. Right now combat seems to hugely favor the ACOGs and the ARs in terms of overall effectiveness from somewhat short to long range while the ironsights tend to be more of a handicap than anything else. Surely this is not an accurate representation because I recall seeing many more reflex and aimpoint sights rather than ACOGs in photographs.

[z0MbA]

4x zoom seems a little much but i cant really judge unless if experienced it
2x zoom wouldnt be bad imo, especially for insurgents.

[Bringerof_D]

That doesn't change the fact that when you use irons in real life your field of view diminishes mainly because you've closed one eye and part of the gun obstructs the rest which is further compounded by your eye focusing on either your target or lining up the front sight post which blurs the surroundings.

Yes, you're supposed to scan around and not just be fixated on one point but that doesn't change the fact that your field of view becomes restricted when you do sight in.

iron sights and red dots (anything without zoom) are supposed to be used BOTH EYES open. if you're closing one eye you're doing it wrong. if you cant sight in without closing one eye, you're using the wrong eye.

the only time you close one eye is if you're trying to make a long range shot and the guy is really small so you need max concentration on one eye.

[OkitaMakoto]

Why would we want to add a 4x zoom on iron sight and red-dot weapons?? Do you guys realize youre suggesting to give ironsights the exact same ranged advantage as a scoped[ACOG, etc] rifle?

Zoom blur has been suggested many times before and has been turned down. My own reasoning was also mentioned indirectly by some others in this thread: In real life when you bring up your rifle you are able to keep it shouldered and facing down the sights but can still move your eyes away from the peep. In PR, we have two options, the standard running around lowered stance, and then sighted in. Your own eyes already create this wanted "Blur" when you look down the sights in game. When you look away from down the sights with your eyes[still having the sights up though] in game, you are effectively leaving the sights up but checking your surroundings.

For me,　thats a perfect example of why there should be no blur when using iron sights. Sure it looks "neat" but it removes the human ability of observing your surroundings while still maintaining your rifle up, aimed, and at the ready.

As far as iron sight zoom, I find it, honestly, quite odd that some of you want it to be 4x, the same as an ACOG. I can understand the sentiment of wanting 1.5x or maybe even 2x as this is a PC game and we are limited to monitors with a set resolution... but at the same time, the game is already limited in distance anyway, and for every person who wants the zoom, there seems to be a person who says they can shoot just fine without it.

[fallingcoconut]

but at the same time, the game is already limited in distance anyway, and for every person who wants the zoom, there seems to be a person who says they can shoot just fine without it.

I believe those who say they could shoot "just fine" with the ironsights are the vast minority. Go to any AAS server and you'll find at most 1-2 people using the rifleman ironsight kit.

A zoom is definitely needed to balance the rifleman ironsights kit against the the rifleman optics kit. Right now, having a rifleman optics kit doesn't penalize short range combat as much as making identification, medium to long range combat, and headshots so much easier.

[billdan]

As far as iron sight zoom, I find it, honestly, quite odd that some of you want it to be 4x, the same as an ACOG. I can understand the sentiment of wanting 1.5x or maybe even 2x as this is a PC game and we are limited to monitors with a set resolution... but at the same time, the game is already limited in distance anyway, and for every person who wants the zoom, there seems to be a person who says they can shoot just fine without it.

Well I am using 1680x1050, which about 27% of forum members use (more than any other resolution) and cannot see human targets at 300m let alone 400m with the iron sight assault rifles, where as I can easily do so in real life.
I am not asking for the zoom to be 4x like the ACOG; I believe the advantage at longer ranges should still belong to the scopes. A 1.5-2.0x zoom should be fine.

This argument is similar to the argument made for giving conventional LMG's scopes/zoom. IRL you can actually see 300m+ human sized targets through iron sights, but this wasn't possible with the pre-.86 LMG's. If I recall correctly, the reasoning went something like "to simulate realistic effective range" or something like that.

Why not do the same and give just a little zoom for iron sight assault rifles?

[barbdwyer22]

I am trying to figure out how ironsights compare to a CQB optic like an Aimpoint or a Reflex sight.

That tiny peep hole (even with the 0-2 up) does not even remotely come close to using both eyes open on an Aimpoint, what would be the point of those optics then? Iron sights blow in real life, the only way you can use both eyes open on iron sights during CQB...is if you look slightly over them. No different than any other weapon regardless of optic in CQB. The whole point of Aimpoints and Reflexes is to be able to still have a single point to aim with but still have both eyes open maintaining your FoV.

Using the actual rear sight aperture in conjunction with the front sight post in CQB you might as well be looking down your ACOG/RCO.

As far as the blur, I agree, I like my ability to pull my sights up, but still use my human ability to look around the screen for targets. Putting the weapon up to my face, but still looking around with my eyes sort of thing.

[Solid Knight]

iron sights and red dots (anything without zoom) are supposed to be used BOTH EYES open. if you're closing one eye you're doing it wrong. if you cant sight in without closing one eye, you're using the wrong eye.

the only time you close one eye is if you're trying to make a long range shot and the guy is really small so you need max concentration on one eye.

The context of this entire thread is long range engagement hence the desire for zoom. If we were talking about shooting somebody at short ranges then perhaps you'd have a point about short range sighting techniques.

We could even accomodate both styles in PR with multi-level zoom. 1x then 1.5x

[SuperTimo]

i see no reason for zoom on iornsights. Sure you focus on your target but it doesn't appear to zoom and having zoom in the game is not a good way to represent this as your whole view will move which is just stupid.

If you have iornsights and are using them at range they should be used more for indirect suppression fire rather than for killing.