Is 'scope in' in the state you want?

[Rudd]

There's a choice at the end of the post, if you don't like reading much

Content

1) some thoughts on the scope in the history of PR.
2) info on what choices there could be in changing the scope
3) Summary of poll choices cuz I didn't realise I could post a poll

1) There are certain characteristics of the scope in that could be modified (notice, "could", not "should")

When scopes first arrived they were decidedly powerful, and usually preferable to irons.

However that is the past and several versions ago now.

The first scope in times were pitifully slow, annoying all that used them, now the scope in is decidedly faster, and thank god for it.

Now there is a balance of Scope and Iron, the squad with too much of one is less versitile and can be destroyed by a squad that has a balance and uses them to their strengths.

Surely a Good state to be in, and congratuations to teh Devs for that.

But maybe Scopes aren't quite there yet. I think that their CQB capabilities are below where they should be, and maybe their immersion and realism too,

2) There are only 4 ways of modifying this afaik.

1) faster scope in time, which is my favoured solution at this time and would be the least work afaik, to augment their CQB capabilties.

2) An undeployed mode like the LMG, being done for Marksmen now. Clearly so teh Scopes can have a longer scope in time like now for long range, and a LMG style side view for short range.

3) A COD4 style Scope, which is just like the PR aimpoint, execpt has a 4x zoom. (which I think would be great, especially if FH2 style Blur can be used on the edges, I also support the same for aimpoints with a 1.5x zoom. Would require a heck of alot of work, and might not be suitable for non-assault rifle kits.

4) A marksman type zoom effect when scoping in, would this affect gameplay at all? I dont know.




3)
So basically

do you think.

1) The Scopes are more or less how they should be.

2) The Scopes need modifications for whatever reason ( state below.)

3) There should be a whole new rework of the assault rifle's scopes, state below what kind of rework.

4) Other

If peeps wanna add a poll to this, feel free.

edit, awesome I figured it out, yay for me!

[K4on]

1) The Scopes are more or less how they should be.

Everything is fine

[RHYS4190]

It not the scopes that need the love, It the iron sight's and the dot point's that need a bit more work and a rethink.

And i agree with the 1x5 zoom for the dot point's, it be sufficient to give people more range, and retain the ability to fight in close quarters.

[Spec]

I think both, scopes and ironsights/red dots are fine. I'm not opposed to innovations, but I think it currently is very good.

[Viper.Sw]

Scope now is FAIL imo! Accuracy is shit ====> You should hit what the crosshair is pointing at when scoped. At least for like 300 meters or more. As for now you need to shoot like 3 shots after each other and hope one of em hits the target!

For CQB the scope rifle is like walking around with a zoomed in sniper rifle. Imagine a sniper using his scope while clearing a small room LOL!
To solve this issue: Add a mode to see just above the scope without zoom in like the LMG BUT to be more centered in the middle of the screen so that it is easier to aim.
And DO NOT make two weapon modes for rifle since then when switching between scope and non scope it will take an extremely long time.

[Mad-Mike]

I think they're fine how they are tbh

[RED]

The scope in time of scoped sights (ACOG, SUSAT, 1P29,...) should be equal of those of reflex sights (Aimpoint) / iron sights, as a longer scope in time is

1. Not realistic (Takes longer to aim with ironsights)

2. Unbalanced in CQB. Scoped sights do already have a big disadvantage due to the zoomed view that is impractial during room-clearing. Punishing them even more leads to arcady, gamey tactics like shooting from the hip during room clearing (and thus shooting anywhere but on the desired target)

Conclusion: Now that prone-diving can be countered with the new implemented deviation, I suggest lowering the scope-in-time of scoped sights to match the scope-in-time of iron-sight weapons as a first step. Anything like adding a blur to add to realism and immersion can be addressed later, if the changes play out well.

[master of the templars]

cod4 and FH2 style would be best in my opinion,
everyone says an ACOG isn't a disadvantage in CQB because you can look through with both eyes and etc so i think it would realistically depict that

[CareBear]

but having, 2 differnt levels of zoom is not possible with bf2 engine afaik

basically, you either have the whole screen zoomed in, or none of it, its not possible to do both at once, so it wouldn't be possible to do it the same as the aimpoints, unless the whole screen is zoomed but blurred, ala FH2 style

[503]

CoD4 style is definitely the best, though it might be a lot of work.

The Scopes feel like sniper scopes right now.

Adding a deployed and undeployed mode for assault rifles would be a bit awkward, having to constantly switch between the two.

[Adriaan]

Imo the scopes could use some modification. Either make the assault rifle's/lmg's 4x zoom scopes like the aimpoint, but with the edges blurred instead, or give it an alternative aiming stance like the one on the undeployed lmg's. I'm not sure, but i think the first would require more work than the second, and i think i read somewhere that in pr the blur isn't possible (not sure if it was). The second will require not as much work i think, but it would take away one weapon slot.

[paradien]

i just feel like they need small tweaks, in my preference i wish the iron sights on certain rifles were worked out a little more, some of the guns seem to focus your view on the sights, not whats beyond them.

[sakils2]

Heres my qoute from a different thread.

I think incendiary grenades should disappear from all kits except rifleman specialist, officer, combat engineer. Thus we could have backup sights for scoped weapons (just remove one smoke grenade from the officer kit, so he wouldn't feel alone) and... do all soldiers carry incendiary grenades?

P.S. Maybe increase the incendiary grenades for those three classes.

[McBumLuv]

Problems:

1) While using magnified scopes, players experience tunnel vision with the black screen covering everything not seen through the scope.
2) Ironsights are at a severe disadvantage at distances otherwise easy to engage at in real life due to the resolution limitation of the computer screen.
3) CQC lacks for both iron sight and magnified sights due to the fact that it is impossible to shoulder the weapon or look through the sights/backups while clearing rooms. Players must either be jogging with the gun at their hip, or must be going at a crawling pace while possibly suffering from tunnel vision due to the magnified optics.

Solutions:

1) Hollow out the magnified scopes à la Red Dot, zoom in the entire screen while leaving only roughly 50 % of the screen's area taken up by the scope, and then adding FH2 style blur.
2) Add a slight, slow zoom to ironsights to all for focusing of the eye. A zoom of 1.3-1.5 times taking a second or two to complete is an excellent solution.
3) Redo the infantry jogging/sprinting mechanics. Decrease the current walking/jogging pace to one suitable for clearing rooms, a faster walk. Decrease the current sprint to be slightly faster than the current jog, but then get rid of loosing stamina by jogging.

Animate it so that when walking the play shoulders his/her weapon and looks through the sights/backup irons. Alternatively, the speed changes don't need changeing to at least implement this last function, but they would make it both much more functional and useful when clearing buildings and realistic.

And yes, I voted for #3.

[akatabrask]

I feel that it works perfectly fine as it is right now.

See, now, we have to choose. Either you go scoped and have an advantage over long distances, or you go non-scoped but instead have an advantage in cqb. This means that you have to plan ahead and have a sort of estimation of what will be needed.
It also aids in the assymetrical balance that is one of the factors that make me love this mod.

And well, if you find yourself in the wrong situation for your equiped gun you're doing something wrong.
Imo, a well laid out squad should always have at least two guys of each type meaning that if you have to clear a room, well then let the two non-scoped guys take the lead. Whereas if you spot a couple of enemies in the distance, then use the scoped guys to take out/supress them and send the un-scoped guys to flank.

Allthough I'd say a scoped in blur effect ála fh2 would be looking far better than the scopes do now.

[Hammarskjold]

It is the opinion of this Swede that the scopes are okay the way they are now.

I wouldn't mind if bringing the scopes up was a bit faster, and give all ironsighted weapons a bit of a zoom-in when you're looking down them.

[AquaticPenguin]

1) "everything is fine"

[Jordanb716]

If anything I rather like the idea of using the lmg deployment system but I'm seeing problems with the kits equipment slots. if that can't be done I say leave it as it is.

[joethepro36]

The only problem I have with scopes at the moment is that they dominate irons in anything but close quarters.

When the distance becomes 50m+ irons lose out significantly and aiming accurately at longer ranges become exponentially more difficult. I always ask my squadmates why they have irons if they get them because at the moment, unless you're moving through tight confines the majority of the time, they're almost useless.

Scope in times are fine as they are. I don't want cod4 style insta scope in and firing on the hip made to be useless. Due to the accuracy penalties already, firing on the hip is pretty bad already. I do wish we had more of the old style, .6 ish (lack of) deviation in that regard.

tl;dr: Irons are sucky, improve them.

[Tarantula]

COD4 way of modifying it would be great