New Insurgent/milita Tank as medium or light

[zordja]

hi all again i'd like to take discussion to a tank that should be in.

the T-54


this tank is very common and the soviets DID make around 90.000 of them so they could appear in this mod, btw it's still being used even today by some armies.

[Mongolian_dude]

I wouldnt think it a necessary suggestion, as insurgents dont have access to MBTs, nor do they fit in with their tactical doctrine.
The militia already have the T-72, so they dont really need this.


...mongol...

[bosco_]

Militia has the T-62

[zordja]

Militia has the T-62

i'm quite aware of that but it's very common to see this tank with rebels and terrorists.

[bosco_]

That was in response to Mongol...

[davetboy_19]

The last thing we need is the super insurgents with a tank. The unorganized stay-at-main-base brits wouldnt be there because they are idiots, they just couldn't leave the main base.

I can imagine it now on Al Basrah, insurgent tank sitting out of the main on a hill *landy drives out* *boom!* *apc drives out* *BOOM!*...be impossible to leave the base.

[STORM-Mama]

The last thing we need is the super insurgents with a tank. The unorganized stay-at-main-base brits wouldnt be there because they are idiots, they just couldn't leave the main base.

Being equiped with an old a extremely outdated Russian tank from the eraly 50s doesn't really make you "super"...

But I see your point. Insurgents shouldn't have any heavy assts at all. A couple of these in the Militia inventory wouldn't hurt anytone, though. After all it's the most common and widely used tank in the world - the AK47 of tanks, so to say.

Thing is that it's not that different from the T-62 that's already ingame. Would be kinda pointless to implement it, really.

[EOD_Security-2252]

Well, Taliban did have tanks in the beginning of Enduring Freedom. Airforce Special Ops destroyed most of them with the help of the Northern Alliance, but Taliban had a fair amount of BMPs and tanks for a while there.

[STORM-Mama]

Giving insurgents tanks and BMPs would still ruin the kind of guerilla warfare that they should stick to in PR, making them more of a poorly equiped regular army rather than a unique partisan faction.

[Duke]

Well, Taliban did have tanks in the beginning of Enduring Freedom. Airforce Special Ops destroyed most of them with the help of the Northern Alliance, but Taliban had a fair amount of BMPs and tanks for a while there.

Ah, see the problem here is that the Taliban are not really 'insurgents' in the sense of the PR insurgents. Remember now that they ran Afghanistan from the mid-90s to the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, meaning that they absorbed the 'real' military of Afghanistan in the process. If anything, id argue the Taliban are closer to a militia/paramilitary force due to the command structure, organisation and equipment they can (or could) field.

The insurgency in PR are more of an unorganised rabble with AKs, which makes giving them a tank a little bit strange in my opinion.

[EOD_Security-2252]

That's true about Taliban not being so much Insurgents, and more like a Militia, but the Insurgent team is used in place of the Taliban on Korengal so...

[zordja]

i've completetly left the idea with giving heavy tank suggs for Guerilla factions since this would simply ruin their doctrines and gameplay.

here is something i know guerillas would use (light and medium tanks are the most likely to be used by Milita Insurgents if any is to be used)

that's a pic of a T34-85

below is a picture of a T34-76(notice the swastika is not bent like the nazi wich indicates this early T34 was captured and used by the Finnish Army in the Finnish Winter War and/or in the continuation wars) their difference is turret design and heavier armour for the 85's turret and main gun calibre the 85 has additional gastanks on the back and tracks on the frontal armour as a sort of extra armour and to repair eventual tracks being damaged this is proparbly a modification by the tanks own crew( the T34-76 used a 76.2mm F-34 L/30.5 gun Zis-5
tank gun and the 85 version used a 85mm ZIS S-53 tank gun)


both tanks were made in vast numbers during and even some time after the war
the 76.2mm came into production in 1940 and was produced even after the war, the 85mm version began production in 1943 but in larger scale on 1944 til the end and some time after the war

it's estimated that some 85.000 tanks were built of both versions combined
these tanks are still in use by some armies in today

these tanks can kill still engage most armour and even(with severe difficulty) MBTs if you target critical areas but head to head they are generally outclassed.

[TheLean]

I´ve never heard of any of those wwII tanks being used by Iraqi insurgents or taliban. Niether group appears to have control over any tanks today, and if they did it would be old soviet cold war equipment like the t-62.

I would love to see WWII tanks go up against modern equipment though, I wonder if a tiger could penetrate an Abrahms in the back or side...

But it shouldnt be in PR, it wouldnt fit with the realism approach.

[charliegrs]

the insurgents did have a tank in PR, back in versions .4 and .5 on al basrah. back when basrah was USMC vs Insurgents. The insurgents had 1 desert camo t-62 and only the "mechanic" kit could drive it. While I think the notion of insurgents having tanks is a little silly, the way PR implemented it on .5 basrah seemed the most realistic way possible. iraq had alot of abandoned armor after the US invasion, and the insurgents probably had atleast some members who were mechanically inclined {like car mechanics and former iraqi army armor crewmen/mechanics} so i didnt think the tank was too far fetched. there was quite a few times my squad was pinned down by the insurgent t62 and we were furiously typing in team chat for our abrams to come save us.

[zordja]

would be higly unlikely for insurgents or Milita or even talibans to actually acquire a tiger tank since they're kinda only a few still in working order being found and the 88mm rounds are not being made for it so it's kinda more of a dream wish than a reality but well as you say a tiger might be able to do a hole in a Abrams with a very good placed shot

[zordja]

i got another suggestion a light tank wich might be a reality

The Soviet Amphibious Light tank PT-76 it's got fairly good armour and not a too bad gun and it can swim.
but cause it's an amphibian tank it's armor really lets it down so it's only good for surprise attacks, Heavy Recon, Ambushes and river patrol as a temporary PBR

her's some facts about itType Amphibious Light Tank
Place of origin Soviet Union
Service history
In service 16 August 1952–present
Production history
Designer N. Shashmurin and Zh.Y. Kotin
Designed 1949–51
Manufacturer VTZ, Kirov Factory
Produced 1953–69
Number built Around 12,000[1]
Specifications (PT-76 model 1)
Weight 14.6 tonnes
Length 6.91 m (hull)
Width 3.15 m
Height 2.325 m
Crew 3 (driver, commander, loader)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Armour 20 mm as you see it's not like an overlord tank with god armour
Primary
armament 76,2 mm D-56T rifled tank gun (40 rds.)
Secondary
armament 7.62 mm SGMT coax machine gun (1,000 rds.)
Engine 6-cyl. diesel
240 hp (179 kW)
Power/weight 16.4 hp/tonne
Suspension torsion-bar
Ground clearance 370 mm
Fuel capacity 250 l
Operational
range 370–400 km, 480–510 km with external fuel
Speed 44 km/h (27 mph), 10.2 km/h (6.3 mph) swimming


this is the waterjets one covered by the protection plates that makes the Propulsionary thrust for the PT-76 on the water.

this tank was used in the cold war and is still being used today.

[Bob_Marley]

The last thing we need is the super insurgents with a tank. The unorganized stay-at-main-base brits wouldnt be there because they are idiots, they just couldn't leave the main base.

I can imagine it now on Al Basrah, insurgent tank sitting out of the main on a hill *landy drives out* *boom!* *apc drives out* *BOOM!*...be impossible to leave the base.

Ah, so you wern't here for the glory days of the T-62 anti-aircraft gun? I still remember countless A-10s going down in flames over Al Basrah... good times.

Anyway, insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan don't use tanks. Show some evidence that they have been employed in the last few years if you're that desperate to get them in.

The only unconventional factions I see using a tank are the malitia (who've already got thier good old T-62s) and the African Resistance Fighters (who are already lined up to get the T-62)

[dtacs]

I'd like to see your source on Iraqi Insurgents and the Taliban having active armor assets.

I can tell you now that there will be very little, I read somewhere that the Taliban have captured soviet equipment, but not the knowledge nor ammunition or mechanical ability to get them on their feet.

There has to be replacement parts and a supply chain in place for a vehicle to stay up and running, and im sure that the insurgents are going to have a lot of trouble getting those parts through sources out of Iraq.

And where on earth could they hide a tank?

I can tell you now unless a map is made which was based around 2003-ish then its not going to happen.

[zordja]

hmm i know of 1 AA that the Insurgent, Milita or the Talibans could have
the ZSU-57-2(it uses 2 57mm guns) is one that they might use, here is a pic of it 2

old M3 Halftracks reconfigured for AA use can be still seen in IDF US Army and a few other armies
her's a few pics of it

[dtacs]

old M3 Halftracks reconfigured for AA use can be still seen in IDF US Army and a few other armies
her's a few pics of it

The US Army are still using M3 Halftracks? I had no idea. Source?

The devs are not going to put something into PR without a valid source providing that the faction is still using that equipment.

Its like saying 'The Taliban need F-15's. Why? Because they need them to balance things out'