Comprehensive Feedback of The Deployable TOW

[AaronFraher]

I assume if a real tank was heading for them all the checks in that vid would go out the window.

If a real AFV was heading towards me i think i'd carry them all out. If you miss one important item in the checklist and miss the shot, or something else goes wrong, you're probably a dead man. Its not all ZOMG ZOMG TANK Kill it FAST! Irl you know

[zebra.actual]

What needs to be done:

• Reduce ammo to 3 shots + 1 in the tube. This way you have to make them count.
• Increase reload time to at MINIMUM 1 minute. Warm up time should be increased as well.

This. /thread

[chrisweb89]

I agree with the suggestion to decrease TOW ammo, and increase their reload time. The reasons for this aren't realism in my opinion so don't even try to say that they are used against infantry irl, blah ,blah because I know, and I also know this is a game where that isn't fun and thats the point of a game.

One question I have that involves the TOW's use against tanks is, why does it have the base defence TOW projecticle and not the missle from the bradley, TOW humvee, or BMP-3? This is one thing that annoys me when using a tank even when supporting infatry, if they don't see that tiny spec of TOW at 1000m it will instant kill me, but if it was a bradley which fires the same missle, it would need two shots to kill me. Can someone with actual knowledge and power(a Dev) tell me why it is made like this? It would be nice if all variants of the same missle did the same damage, so that a TOW emplacement and BMP-3 would either both 1 shot a tank or severely damage it if they both hit it in the exact same place, except the base defence TOWs which I can understand and want to be one hit kills.

[Jaymz]

One question I have that involves the TOW's use against tanks is, why does it have the base defence TOW projecticle and not the missle from the bradley, TOW humvee, or BMP-3? This is one thing that annoys me when using a tank even when supporting infatry, if they don't see that tiny spec of TOW at 1000m it will instant kill me, but if it was a bradley which fires the same missle, it would need two shots to kill me. Can someone with actual knowledge and power(a Dev) tell me why it is made like this? It would be nice if all variants of the same missle did the same damage, so that a TOW emplacement and BMP-3 would either both 1 shot a tank or severely damage it if they both hit it in the exact same place, except the base defence TOWs which I can understand and want to be one hit kills.

That is a very good point that was overlooked (in fact, you can blame me for this one). The main base Stationary AT's in previous versions, were simply anti-base-rape devices which is why they did insane damage. The damage on these should actually be the same as the Bradley, TOW HMMWV, T-90 missiles. Easily correctable for future versions.

[Dev1200]

Anyway, here is why the TOW is overpowered:

• FAST 360 Degree rotation
• Nearly 180 degrees movement in the Y axis
• Very Fast warm up time
• Very Fast Reload
• Large supply of ammo, with unlimited and easily accessible reserves Ammo (simply destroy and rebuild it)
• Very powerful zoom, coupled with no deviation = HE sniper rifle
• Low profile = Hard to engage at range
• Fast projectile travel time
• Silent. Vehicles make noise, and H-AT takes time to warm up and leave yourself exposed. No warning before death by TOW.
• Warhead has both giant splash damage AND incredible anti-vehicle power.
• User friendly system. Point and click on the bad guy, keep crosshairs on it even if it's moving.

All of the above factors result in the ultimate anti-everything platform. It takes no time to figure out how it works, and kills with impunity. I know it is possible to counter it, but it usually takes serious effort, and the fact of the matter is there are times when you simply can't (you're on a roof in north city, taking TOW's from Mosque for example. CAS isn't available or sucks). Remember, he has better range and zoom than you, perfect deviation, and kills everything within 20 feet of you.

What needs to be done:

• Reduce ammo to 3 shots + 1 in the tube. This way you have to make them count.
• Reduce splash damage by at least half, preferably to 1/4 of current value.
• Increase reload time to at MINIMUM 1 minute. Warm up time should be increased as well.
• Add Deviation of some sort. Even if it's only a meter in any direction at 800 yards, that's still enough to make it more fair, and actually require some talent to use.
• Increase traverse time, and restrict it in the Y axis to make it less useful from rooftops and against helicopters.
• Reduce the Zoom. I don't know what the RL values of that big optic on top is, but gameplay should always be first before reality.
• Give it a ticket value. Tank's and APC's have them, which is exactly what this is supposed to counter, so make it fair. You don't have to wait 20 minutes for a TOW to respawn.
• (This is only if it is given a ticket value) Due to it's increased value, make it reloadable BUT make it take a long time, require a manned supply truck (as in someone has to be in the driver's seat) and someone has to be in the gunner seat. In fact, a manned supply truck should be able to reload all vehicles and emplacements, albeit slowly.

The TOW is a defensive emplacement, remember. It was meant to prevent FOB's from getting rolled by Tanks. It shouldn't be anything more than a stationary H-AT.


Additionally, the model for the emplacement should be changed as well. Go code it yourself, I know, but I'm not going to because I don't know how. Anyway, I feel like World in Conflict uses a good model for it's Anti-Tank emplacement. Using a WiC style emplacement would improve the TOW for a number of reasons, on both sides of the issue.

• Added protection against infantry, means TOW player doesn't feel like he has to shoot to save himself
• Canopy prevents unfair engagement of helicopters.
• Bigger model gives a fair target for APC's and Tank's to engage, since the TOW has such a big target to hit when fighting against vehicles.

This basically sums it up for you

[LithiumFox]

And what's hillarious is that people STILL Suck at using the tow.

I can't use the TOW for ****. So.... obviously, you just don't know how to handle a TOW.


EASY: Dodge it... see it before it sees you. if it misses, USE THAT OPPORTUNITY!

[Namebot]

Make them cost tickets?

Obvious downsides, but the pluses are big.

[Dev1200]

It's hard to dodge something that's wire guided, unless the Gunner is retarded. The reload speed is too large to "re-engage" it effectively.

[RHYS4190]

You are basically become unrevivable if you get splashed by the tow, i think that a bit unfair seeming you can get shot by a tank shell and still be rev’ed, i think that needs to be changed.

[Trooper909]

If a real AFV was heading towards me i think i'd carry them all out. If you miss one important item in the checklist and miss the shot, or something else goes wrong, you're probably a dead man. Its not all ZOMG ZOMG TANK Kill it FAST! Irl you know

It seems that way in todays armys. only thing to kill a challenger 2 tank was another challenger 2 think thay forgot the ID check hehe.


Anyway think the most easy way for armor to counter a tow is (drum roll) avoid it?
Tanks allways go off alone with no infantry backup or intell if thay have both there should be no problem with TOWs for them.

[Murphy]

The issue I've always had is to my knowledge the TOW was mad as a cost effective way to destroy armor (Tow costs ~$180000, Bradley costs $3160000). So if we were striving for "realism" would it not dictate that you wouldn't want to spend $180k to shoot at one random guy? I understand a player decides to use his weapon how he sees fit, but if there was some way to discourage the use of a TOW on infantry I think many of us would like to see it.

While it's not game breaking, it does lend itself to being more "arcade".

[killonsight95]

The issue I've always had is to my knowledge the TOW was mad as a cost effective way to destroy armor (Tow costs ~$180000, Bradley costs $3160000). So if we were striving for "realism" would it not dictate that you wouldn't want to spend $180k to shoot at one random guy? I understand a player decides to use his weapon how he sees fit, but if there was some way to discourage the use of a TOW on infantry I think many of us would like to see it.

While it's not game breaking, it does lend itself to being more "arcade".

make each missle cost 1 ticket???

[Inca_Killa]

In the same way an APC doesn't charge a HAT head on, or a jeep an RPG, or a helicopter an anti-air cannon or a squad an HMG... why should a tank try to take on the TOW? You never try to 1 on 1 your counter, you'll just end up losing and frustrated.

Infantry are a huge hassle to TOWs, as TOWs are a huge hassle to armour. You see where I'm going with this, right?

Except that TOWs are a huge hassle to infantry, while infantry in all respect are usually not that big of a hassle to TOWs. You see where i'm going with this, right?

[009783232]

There is no teamwork required to destroy all of the other sides armour with a TOW. All it takes is a two man squad to build a useless FOB and set up a TOW.




There is a countermeasure. Its called a HAT. The only difference now is that the guys who would run off with the HAT kits are now running off with trucks and building TOW's. Armour always had to be cautious of infantry working together, because if they were truly working together they would have some form of AT, and use it to destroy the armour.

The obsession with armour being able to kill absolutely everything with no support from infantry is a little annoying. If you look at it from a realism point of view, Russian and American anti-tank missiles were able to hit tank sized targets out to several kilometres in the seventies. Even hezbollah used them in the war against the idf, to decent effect.

If you look at it from a game play perspective, it meant that the battles revolved around APCs of all things. People care less now whether the btrs manage a kill on a lav on muttrah. Between 0.8 and the release of the deployable tow launcher, entire rounds depended on ridiculous apc verses apc fights. This was simply because the amount of apcs on the field would far exceed the amount of anti-tank weaponry.

Sure, it was fun to crew a lav or btr on muttrah or jabal and kill hordes of anti-tank deficient squads, but for everyone else, it was annoying.

[Psyrus]

Except that TOWs are a huge hassle to infantry, while infantry in all respect are usually not that big of a hassle to TOWs. You see where i'm going with this, right?

Dunno what game you're playing, but I haven't seen many TOWs that are a huge hassle to infantry. HMGs, yes... LMGs, yes... TOWs, not really. The splash on a TOW will kill/injure a few troops in a what, 10(?)m diamater, and then it's a long reload. So unless the TOW kills all the infantry at once, he's most likely boned. I have honestly never experienced a TOW killing a whole squad at once, but then again I don't play on many US servers and apparently it's a different universe over there. I have indeed been TOW sniped while trying to kill it, but if I hadn't been lonewolfing trying to kill the TOW, my buddy would've had 15-30 seconds to take it out while he reloaded... no dramas.

I dunno, I think the very first post I made in this thread summarizes my thoughts... I probably should just exit stage left while I still can, because this circular argument going on here serves very little purpose.

[BigNate]

If you have never been TOW sniped as an infantryman, or seen it done you're a liar.

Well, not necessarily. As far as I know, it's only happened to me once. Thing is, you're just lying there on your hill and suddenly you are dead. I said something along the lines of "I'm down, must've been headshot or something" and had squadmates correct me that I was hit with a TOW.

No sound, no nothing. Just laying there one instant, blackness the next.

[BigNate]

The issue I've always had is to my knowledge the TOW was mad as a cost effective way to destroy armor (Tow costs ~$180000, Bradley costs $3160000). So if we were striving for "realism" would it not dictate that you wouldn't want to spend $180k to shoot at one random guy? I understand a player decides to use his weapon how he sees fit, but if there was some way to discourage the use of a TOW on infantry I think many of us would like to see it.

While it's not game breaking, it does lend itself to being more "arcade".

Other sources in this thread have pegged TOW missles to $20-25k. Perhaps what you read is for the emplacement or HMMWV system?

[ElPube]

I agree with Psyrus and with those who say if you find the TOW is overpowered the problem is teamplay.
I want to add when TOW open fire it's very visible from very far and it can't move so the operator has to choose the targets very well because soon after he start firing will find an enemy squad hunting the TOW and the near firebase.

[Hitman.2.5]

You are basically become unrevivable if you get splashed by the tow, i think that a bit unfair seeming you can get shot by a tank shell and still be rev’ed, i think that needs to be changed.

to be honest if your hit by a tow missile your going to die if they should change anything it should be so that the tank shell too is insta kill as you would have limbs missing or worse your face... and a magic pen wont heal you so you can run around killing people and destroying vehicles XD

[Nakata]

Reduce the ammo to 5 shots 1 ready and 4 for reload.... This way guys will think twice before shoot at inf.
Incress the deployment time... This away when run out of ammo build a new one will spend more time.
A lock-on time, like HAT, would be great...