What are the advantages of TS3 over mumble?

[Lzryde]

Teamspeak 3 is inferior to Mumble for our purpose of having a supplemental VOIP program due to the fact that it does not have a readily available plug-in for positional audio coordinates supplied by BF2.

Yes, Mumble has a BF2 plugin packaged with it. TS3 does not. If TS3 had one, this thread wouldn't exist.

Open source a bad application does not make.

Doesn't mean it makes a better one either.

This image was brought to you by the "Don't Take This Seriously" Foundation.

This explains a lot.

[Celestial1]

If TS3 had one

Yes, that's exactly what we are getting at here.
Go make a BF2 plug-in for TS3, and no one would be arguing with you...

And before it comes across yours (or anyone elses) mind: The DEVs have no reason to do work that is already done. If an opportunity comes along, like someone making the plug-in for us, then there would be something to talk about.

Doesn't mean it makes a better one either.

Didn't say or imply that it did.
It's a benefit; one that isn't always utilized and isn't always that useful (like if we had nothing we wanted to add to the program).
But saying that "one is open source and one is good" is a situational comparison, and isn't quite the deal when comparing mumble to TS3.

[Sniperdog]

What's the point of locking settings?

So players cant cheat.

Couldn't one just download/edit/compile Mumble's source and connect to the PR server without those restrictions?

No because we use a custom version of mumble for which the source is not publicly available.

Having the settings hardcoded does make it simpler to connect. But I don't see how hard it can be to connect to a server and edit some plugin settings. If people really care enough about the positional audio experience, they would be willing do this.

I prefer making it easy for people to access rewarding things like positional audio instead of making them jump through a bunch of hurdles to get to it.

Take for example BF2's in game voip. Nearly all players use it at some point or another because all the configuration and connecting is done automatically.

I believe mumble is many times better than teamspeak for us without a doubt, for one simple reason; We can do whatever we want to mumble because we have the source code to it.

Can we package teamspeak with pr in the future so players have positional audio automatically when they connect to a server?

no, because it is commercial.

We can do it with mumble because it is non commercial and open source, and hopefully that is something that will become a reality in the not too distant future.

I am not saying mumble is better then TS, I am saying mumble is much better geared for widespread usage with PR.

[Lzryde]

I guess you didn't pick up on this, but from what db said, the only 'benefit' of Mumble being open source, is that the devs can lock settings.

What's the point of locking settings? Couldn't one just download/edit/compile Mumble's source and connect to the PR server without those restrictions? More of a deterrent I'd think.

Having the settings hardcoded does make it simpler to connect. But I don't see how hard it can be to connect to a server and edit some plugin settings. If people really care enough about the positional audio experience, they would be willing do this.

I think having the already-made bf2.dll is a far greater advantage for Mumble over TS3.

No because we use a custom version of mumble for which the source is not publicly available.

So then it's not open source?

I am not saying mumble is better then TS, I am saying mumble is much better geared for widespread usage with PR.

Finally. I can agree with this.

So players cant cheat.

Cheat how? When your dead or not in the server you hear everything. If someone wanted to cheat they could quite easily.

[Ford_Jam]

Are you seriously arguing just for the sake of arguing now?
Think about it. Look at the locked settings. If those were adjustable one could change the distance at which they could hear people, the distance they transmit etc etc. It is to prevent unfair advantages.

Vanilla Mumble is open source yes, PRMumble is not, however the opensource nature of Vanilla Mumble allows the dev team to make necessary changes to suit PR. You're not supposed to be able to change PR Mumble for the reasons above.

[zenrique]

Mumble and TS3 are used for 2 different goals. The first is used for ingame positional audio, the other for your private talk with clan friends. It's that simple. It's not a either-or choice, but rather one being a complement to the other. Wanna talk to your clan frends in private? Use TS3 connected to your clan's server. Wanna talk to the guy next to you in PR's virtual battlefield? Use mumble connected to the gameserver's channel... 2 tools for 2 different jobs, coexisting in peace

[Cassius]

Yes, that's exactly what we are getting at here.
Go make a BF2 plug-in for TS3, and no one would be arguing with you...

And before it comes across yours (or anyone elses) mind: The DEVs have no reason to do work that is already done. If an opportunity comes along, like someone making the plug-in for us, then there would be something to talk about.



Didn't say or imply that it did.
It's a benefit; one that isn't always utilized and isn't always that useful (like if we had nothing we wanted to add to the program).
But saying that "one is open source and one is good" is a situational comparison, and isn't quite the deal when comparing mumble to TS3.

Just let it go, he is not looking at rationally discussing this thing anymore, he just wants to "win" the conversation.

Are you seriously arguing just for the sake of arguing now?

Yes he is and by extension everyone who gets "sucked" into it.

[Lzryde]

Are you seriously arguing just for the sake of arguing now?
Think about it. Look at the locked settings. If those were adjustable one could change the distance at which they could hear people, the distance they transmit etc etc. It is to prevent unfair advantages.

Or you could just delete the bf2.dll plugin and you can hear everyone in the Mumble channel no matter where you are in the game. If people want to cheat, they will find a way.

[Ford_Jam]

Or you could just delete the bf2.dll plugin and you can hear everyone in the Mumble channel no matter where you are in the game. If people want to cheat, they will find a way.

And I'm sure the exact same thing can be done to your righteous TS3 plug-in.
I'd argue against your flawed logic, which is pretty much saying just because someone can cheat we should remove all preventative measures to cheating, but the thread would get locked and infractions would likely be handed out.

[dbzao]

I'm done discussing this, I couldn't make myself clearer from the developer's point of view like I did in my previous post, and now people are just nitpicking on what I said.

I was actually curious to see what advantages TS3 could have for our needs from people that use it more than I do, but this discussion, like pretty much any other Mumble discussion, became a little fight of TS3 supporters versus Mumble supporters.

As a PR developer, I don't see us moving away from Mumble that soon, unless TS3 gives us all we need in a better way, so there, you can discuss all you want, and you can use it or not, but if Mumble didn't actually work we wouldn't have this fight, would we?

[akatabrask]

I guess you didn't pick up on this, but from what db said, the only 'benefit' of Mumble being open source, is that the devs can lock settings.

No, he didn't say that's the only advantage. He said, since it is open source, they can tailor it to their specific needs, using lockable settings as an example.

So then it's not open source?

Yes, the "vanilla" mumble is open source. TS3 is not. That means, as they've stated, that the devs can do a fully customized non-open source (i.e the end user cannot edit the PR version) version of it that they can perfectly tailor to do exactly everything they want. They can also package mumble with the PR installer.

TS3 is not open source. That means that the devs cannot design it to fit their own needs except by the relatively few means that the TS3-devs have limited them to.
They also cannot package TS3 with the PR installer.

So in the end, the devs can either prompt you to install a non-open source (the main reason to prevent people from exploiting and/or cheating) version of their own, fully customized, version of mumble...

...or they could stick to TS3 and whatever limited means of customization it offers.

Hmm, quite an easy choise, isn't it?

Cheat how? When your dead or not in the server you hear everything. If someone wanted to cheat they could quite easily.

First of: so you can't do that with TS3, can you?

Second: Hey, you just found one of the greater advantages with open source programs such as mumble!
You see, when you have that source code in front of you, free to edit, you can suddenly, by the means of some tedious programming, change the whole program to suit your needs. You can make it so that the player can't choose server / channel / etc. on his own (in case he/she could, he/she could join an enemy channel and listen in on them, thus cheating) but instead let mumble read data from bf2/pr and based from that move that player to whatever server / channel he/she belongs to and from thereon prevent the player from doing any manual switching.
Also, you could even make mumble detect it the player was dead or not spawned in the game and, based on that, auto-mute/deafen the player.

You see? The possibilities with what you could with open source programs, such as mumble, is virtualy endless!

The only real reason I can see with using TS3 when playing pr would pretty much be for having private chats with your friends and clan mates somewhat "behind the scenes".

[Cassius]

Nice try doctor, but no.

You cannot sit here and tell me that Teamspeak 3 is inferior to Mumble, if so, give me a reason other than "it's open source".

It's kind of like comparing PHPBB to vBulletin. One is open source, and one is better.

TS3 logging in, find the server information on a forum enter them and log in. Repeat for every server.
Mumble PR logging in, log in join the channel.

Positional Audio. Mumble has it for PR, you would have to tinker a plug in for TS

Overlay, mumble has it you can see who speaks, TS does or did not have it.

memory usage, mumble uses less.

Latency, according to posters on the server mumble has faster latency.

Creating channels on the fly without admin rights. I think TS3 can do that while mumble cant.

You keep saying TS 3 is better than mumble. I dont see it and so far you did not tell me either why TS3 is better than mumble. If you just do not like it, thats fine, just say you do not like it and thats it, not everything must have a rational reason.

I dont care what is being used as long as it works and people log on unto it and use it. On the server I play we used TS 2 before. Then came mumble which did everything we needed that TS2 did (Radio) and positional audio on top, therefore I prefer using mumble. Having the possibility to have a 3 tank squad and the crewmembers a conversation with positional audio so only the 2 people crewing the tank can hear each other instead of the entire squad is very usefull, but if another program should come along I am fine with it too.

You on the other hand seem to have strong FEELINGS against mumble.

[Lzryde]

First of: so you can't do that with TS3, can you?

Second: Hey, you just found one of the greater advantages with open source programs such as mumble! .

Well TS3 would have the same problem I reckon. I didn't mean for it to sound like TS3 could fix that particular issue, I was just saying that it is a possible exploit.

And since Mumble is open source the devs can make it so you need the bf2.dll loaded to use their version of Mumble. And that you couldn't do with TS3. Hooray for Mumble.

[akatabrask]

Creating channels on the fly without admin rights. I think TS3 can do that while mumble cant.

If im not mistaken, this would be something like that, right?

1.2.0 - Mumble

Temporary channels live only as long as there are users in them, and automatically get deleted when the last users leaves. We expect to see a lot of these on public servers as the capability to create them can be given independently of normal channel creation rights.

If so, that got included into mumble 1.2.0.

[Cassius]

If im not mistaken, this would be something like that, right?

1.2.0 - Mumble



If so, that got included into mumble 1.2.0.

Yes, but I dont think it would be a good idea anyways, because people would sink in different subchannels and then dissapear. Ideal would be an overlay function imo, you press a key and the radio shows up, then you select a player with the mouse and just he can hear you radio him, as long as you keep the button pressed. That would reduce spam for the other squadleaders if you need to have a longer conversation to call in mortars or direct CAS.

At the same time everybody is still in the squadleader radio and can hear messages relevant for the team.

[akatabrask]

Yes, but I dont think it would be a good idea anyways, because people would sink in different subchannels and then dissapear. Ideal would be an overlay function imo, you press a key and the radio shows up, then you select a player with the mouse and just he can hear you radio him, as long as you keep the button pressed. That would reduce spam for the other squadleaders if you need to have a longer conversation to call in mortars or direct CAS.

At the same time everybody is still in the squadleader radio and can hear messages relevant for the team.

Yes, one of the prime advantages that popped into my head when seeing that was intervehicular communication (sometimes the engines are to loud for the 3d sound in mumble to be heard).
Other than that and prehaps, as you said, CAS / mortars etc (wouldn't the wisper do this better btw?) I see no usefull use for it in PR.

[Cassius]

Yes, one of the prime advantages that popped into my head when seeing that was intervehicular communication (sometimes the engines are to loud for the 3d sound in mumble to be heard).
Other than that and prehaps, as you said, CAS / mortars etc (wouldn't the wisper do this better btw?) I see no usefull use for it in PR.

Well it would be a whisper function, just coupled with a grafical interface to use it.

[=LK= A.H.]

I find the biggest advantage of TS3 to be the fact that I have yet to see TS3 users regard me as some sort of retarded caveman or neo-Luddite for not caring too much about which piece of software I am using. I have nothing against Mumble (haven't tried it yet), but the elitist prickery surrounding it makes me want to steer clear of it.

[Celestial1]

Finally. I can agree with this.

Welcome to the conversation.
That's what we've been getting at. Again.

[sr.bambino]

TS3 and Mumble are similar, I don't know much about TS3 but from reading this thread, doesn't seem like TS3 has much (if any) on Mumble. The thing about Mumble is that there are 'Mumble' servers, Mumble is used on a wider basis w/ PR, while only clans use TS3. Often a squad composed of a clan will use TS3, and ONLY that squad, and that squad will go on and be a great squad but ALONE, thinking they are SOOO cool for using TS3. Mumble on the other hand is used by a majority of PR players - instead of being a die hard fan of TS3, use mumble for PR.

If you want to play PR use mumble because thats the program endorsed by the game and is being designed for smooth integration with the game - STOP BEING STUBBORN