[Official] Rally Point Feedback

[Frontliner]

That are low content posts now.
Give some examples of it being a "Zerg rush" (shouldnt be so hard just make a Screenshot of it) otherwise its hard to take you serious.

Multiple people have stated in unison that this happens, why it happens and the effects it has, as well as why it's detrimental to almost everything PR is about. Maybe you should stop covering your ears when somebody speaks, you're like a 5-year old not willing to listen when he's been proven wrong not only logically, but from an x-amount of eyewitnesses.

[Nate.]

Allright, here's some insight:

I appreciate the new changes you've made that strive towards making the rally points less "op" (including increasing spawn times and such)

But: Saarema today, US Team, EU#3:


.. 10 minutes later:

.. another 10 minutes later, our team had lost the Flag.

-> Squads not maneuvering together
-> Squads not approaching from different angles at the same time (but from one angle all the time)
-> Nobody flanking the enemies (Enemy team propably looked like that just the other way round..)

I am not saying this is entirely due to the rallie (e.g., mumble was down on that round), but I think they are a vital part of this.

[MADsqirrel]

Yeah, especialy on Sareema it is easy to plant RPs somewhere hidden.
And without a way to coordinate the squads (mumble down) it is hard to do anything tactical here.

I bet it looked similar on the Russian side RP wise.
In a situation like this permament rallys are hard to overcome. Timed RPs with a block time after could work better.

[Raic]

Allright, here's some insight:

I appreciate the new changes you've made that strive towards making the rally points less "op" (including increasing spawn times and such)

But: Saarema today, US Team, EU#3:


.. 10 minutes later:

.. another 10 minutes later, our team had lost the Flag.

-> Squads not maneuvering together
-> Squads not approaching from different angles at the same time (but from one angle all the time)
-> Nobody flanking the enemies (Enemy team propably looked like that just the other way round..)

I am not saying this is entirely due to the rallie (e.g., mumble was down on that round), but I think they are a vital part of this.

This isn't really issue with rallypoints that its people being horrible players. I had great games where squad or two made attempts to attack the flanks and take control of the surrounding area while rest were assaulting the main target. Problem here is not the rallypoints, its the completely incapable people with no tactical ability.

[Olicarnage]

Allright, here's some insight:

I appreciate the new changes you've made that strive towards making the rally points less "op" (including increasing spawn times and such)

But: Saarema today, US Team, EU#3:


.. 10 minutes later:

.. another 10 minutes later, our team had lost the Flag.

-> Squads not maneuvering together
-> Squads not approaching from different angles at the same time (but from one angle all the time)
-> Nobody flanking the enemies (Enemy team propably looked like that just the other way round..)

I am not saying this is entirely due to the rallie (e.g., mumble was down on that round), but I think they are a vital part of this.

I was here, squad 6 leader.

I think there is a little bit of bad faith in your quote.

Do you think things would have been a lot of different without RPs ? Units would have spawn at the Firebase and i'm pretty sure that the squads would have moved the same way... even worse. It is not true when you say squads were not attacking from different angles. Squad 3 was managing East part of supply depot while my squad was attacking from west.

The main big problem in this game was mumble who was down.

[ma21212]

The 1 minute give up timer is SO annoying.

[Raic]

The 1 minute give up timer is SO annoying.

Looking that you would have to wait the 60 seconds staring at black screen otherwise, it literally makes no difference.

[cyberzomby]

Played a game of sareema yesterday at russian side that showed how the persistan rallys add something to the game. Obj abondend house was in play. The russians built a fob ne of it and 300m to the sw was a line of rallies from the squads from nw to sw. Every squad had there own sector to defend. Was really cool.

The us used fobs as well btw.

[Hurricane]

To sum up the arguments on whether the "new" RP system is good or bad so far:
Contra:
- Supply chains and FOBs become irrelevant
- Transport becomes irrelevant
- Lack of player discipline often turns the game into a fast-paced action shooter with little focus on tactics

Pro:
- "But it used to be like this back in the days!"

Reasonable arguments vs. nostalgia, the choice should be obvious.

Keep in mind we're still working on the rallypoints. It was never our intention to just set them to infinite and leave them untouched. It's an open beta, so this is the perfect opportunity to try something.

We totally see the feedback and troubles.
Even in the team there are different opinions about that change and we already have multiple solutions and new ideas we gonna try out. More later.

It's nice to know you're not planning to keep it as it is, but really, I don't see the need for more experiments with this as you guys had a perfectly working system in 0.9x ...

[Nate.]

I was here, squad 6 leader.

I think there is a little bit of bad faith in your quote.

Do you think things would have been a lot of different without RPs ? Units would have spawn at the Firebase and i'm pettry sure that the squads would have moved the same way... even worse. It is not true when you say squads were not attacking from different angles. Squad 3 was managing East part of supply depot while my squad was attacking from west.

The main big problem in this game was mumble who was down.

I stated that this was not due to the rally points only.
However, it also looked like that on quite a lot of rounds where mumble was acutally working.
No bad faith in my statement. It was not my intention to run down your squad. Once, I saw the Tiger Platoon Squad trying to flank the flag, but they were caught in the constant flow of enemies coming from their rallies and had to retreat.

I am still opposed to rally-system as it is now, but I feel that the DEVs will improve the system so that it fullfills everyone's "needs".

[K4on]

-> Squads not maneuvering together
-> Squads not approaching from different angles at the same time (but from one angle all the time)
-> Nobody flanking the enemies (Enemy team propably looked like that just the other way round..)

I am just asking myself right now, if you see noone flanking, why don't people communicate with their team?

You have mumble. You should have a mic. Now all it needs is some inter squad communication.
And this is a "feature" that the players can bring in.

When I played Saaremaa yesterday, our team had no such issues as we communicated as a team and reported enemy positions.

[Leut.dweed]

I am just asking myself right now, if you see noone flanking, why don't people communicate with their team?

You have mumble. You should have a mic. Now all it needs is some inter squad communication.
And this is a "feature" that the players can bring in.

When I played Saaremaa yesterday, our team had no such issues as we communicated as a team and reported enemy positions.

You are right, but squadleaders are much more busy now. 2 more squadmembers and a lot more action. People also use local mumble much more because of the missing tags. Yesterday on fools road it was very hard with that constant spam. Next problem was that other squadleaders did not tell their squadnumber when they were possibly speaking to me while my squad and other people all around were speaking. That all needs some time. On saarema it worked better because the map is bigger and the squads have a bigger spread. Has nothing to do with the rally but its my personal reason why there's a lack of using mumble at the moment.

The changes on the rally system did not make that big change. Sqdls drop them not so close to objectives anymore and it's not the same zombie horde gameplay anymore, but still it's just to fast.

[Nate.]

I am just asking myself right now, if you see noone flanking, why don't people communicate with their team?

You have mumble. You should have a mic. Now all it needs is some inter squad communication.
And this is a "feature" that the players can bring in.

When I played Saaremaa yesterday, our team had no such issues as we communicated as a team and reported enemy positions.

Well, on one hand I could not talk to other squads because I was in "Trans" Squad doing Inf because most of the other squads were full / closed. On the other hand, mumble was down.

My first round on Saarema that day was great. We attacked an objective from both sides at the same time, did not use rallies and revived everyone that died.

But let's not get into a discussion about that specific round here.

I just wanted to state that I prefer a clear firefight over an objective over a 20-minute rally-respawn-feast stalemate.
The graph challenger posted describes things pretty well actually.

[zloyrash]

I like current RP system.
totally agree with

I kinda like this rally point system.

I would however like to see people's views on the following RP system suggestion (believe it was like this once upon a time?):

1.) To place, you must be 50m, 100m, 200m (on 1km, 2km and 4km maps) away from the nearest enemy.

2.) Rally points must be destroyed with a knife.

3.) If any enemy is within 25m, 50m, 100m (on 1km, 2km, and 4km maps) of the rally point (the current 'over run' distance, I believe), you cannot spawn on the rally point.

4.) 1x rally point per Officer kit, resupplied via resupply crate.

5.) The RP emits the old (or current?) faint radio signal.

---

This would mean that:

1.) You can think sneakily about where to put your rally point, and it won't just get over run because of a lone wolf who walks nearby, oblivious to its existence.

2.) There is a danger of being assaulted by spawning troops whilst approaching the RP to destroy it (if you're beyond the stop-spawn distance).

3.) You have to involve the co-operation of TRANS squads to bring supplies to you, or take you to supplies should you lose your RP (conceal it better).

This removes both passive elements of RPs, and turns them into active elements (destroying them, and obtaining them)

But I think RP must overrun(not only unspawnable) when enemy is near.
And if it will be radio signal sound around the RP I think radius of this sound must be smaller. Or sound more silent.

[Heskey]

I don't see why it should be over-runable.

The RP is a collection of troops non-essential gear before going into combat. It's a "REAL" object and it should be found and destroyed.

The over-run system is good in theory, but only conceptually. In reality, a whole squad's movements can be decimated by a lone wolf walking through the forest, who is unaware of the RP he has destroyed.

Being able to physically see the RP prior to its destruction gives the enemy SQL's an insight into what the enemy is planning.

[Raic]

I don't see why it should be over-runable.

The RP is a collection of troops non-essential gear before going into combat. It's a "REAL" object and it should be found and destroyed.

The over-run system is good in theory, but only conceptually. In reality, a whole squad's movements can be decimated by a lone wolf walking through the forest, who is unaware of the RP he has destroyed.

Being able to physically see the RP prior to its destruction gives the enemy SQL's an insight into what the enemy is planning.

It used to be like this in the early days when rallypoints were introduced. However unless you use a sound that can be heard miles away, it could be missed as squads would spend their time to hide them as good as possible. Its already annoying if someone sneaks behind and places a rallypoint, what we don't need are rallypoints can be in the direct behind of whatever units which just moved past them.

[Heskey]

It used to be like this in the early days when rallypoints were introduced. However unless you use a sound that can be heard miles away, it could be missed as squads would spend their time to hide them as good as possible. Its already annoying if someone sneaks behind and places a rallypoint, what we don't need are rallypoints can be in the direct behind of whatever units which just moved past them.

I don't see why not?

Squads should always be observing their surroundings when on the move.

Just like a FOB, if an enemy squad misses spotting a rally whilst on the move, then it's a tactical blunder on their part.

Recon/Scout/Light infantry squads should be able to operate behind enemy lines and rely on enemies FINDING their location, rather than passing near it.

[Hurricane]

I don't see why not?

Squads should always be observing their surroundings when on the move.

Just like a FOB, if an enemy squad misses spotting a rally whilst on the move, then it's a tactical blunder on their part.

Recon/Scout/Light infantry squads should be able to operate behind enemy lines and rely on enemies FINDING their location, rather than passing near it.

Except FOBs are MUCH bigger, audible and require crates that are often the first thing you will find.

Basically what you're suggesting is indeed making Rallys "Mini-FOBs" that are pretty much independent from supplies. The majority of players here are against the current (1.0b) system already and you want to make the RPs even more "powerful"? Good luck finding any support for that ...

[fabioxxxx]

it wasn't that bad ... and i was kind of against first... i think this could be tweaked in the server.
So we could chose game play with super rally points or normal ones. Would be nice to have a change of phase some times.

[FoxtrotFaulkner]

I dislike the new rally points in 1.0. Some reasons I feel that way.

-It is far too easy to place one out of sight and in an awkward enough spot to where it won't be overrun all round long.
-It takes away from FOB's. Why spawn on the FOB which could be camped when you could spawn on the rally almost certainly isn't camped, due to how they work and are overrun)?
-It takes away from logistics. Why take a ride in any transport vehicle and risk getting killed on the way when you could spawn quietly on your rally point?
-It takes away from all of the work done to the engineer/specialist kits. Less FOBs being built means less assets/emplacements being built which means less work for these kits to do. Not saying they'll be useless, just saying they'll be used more if rally points were like they were in 0.98.

If you think of the term rally point, it is a point to rally up on. I don't think of a rally point as a secondary way to spawn in and keep trickling into battle, which is what it will primarily be in 1.0.