What do you want to see in a Realism Mod?

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Rick_the_new_guy
Posts: 291
Joined: 2006-12-01 17:01

Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Jack.DK wrote:greetings

A real tank have permanent zoome on the sight that you switch between 5X and 15X. or you can swith to thermal image same zoom.

Press x for zoom
Thanks, I need to look into this.

I remember reading something about zooming in tanks some time ago.

I look forward to trying it out.
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BetterDeadThanRed
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Post by BetterDeadThanRed »

There really needs to be more selective zoom features on the tanks.
ImageLeMazing.
Garrison
Posts: 57
Joined: 2004-10-18 17:02

Post by Garrison »

Leonvvd wrote:Hello Project reality
Please make an option available at online servers that will get everyone 1 life if you get killed your killed and can watch the battle. Just like in the game socom for the playstation. Then the game is much more exiting and realistic because everybody will try hard to stay alive. And if you kill someone you will also be alot more thrilled.

and add on top of the screen the status of players alive like: US Marines: 12 | MEC Forces: 5

hope you guys will do this good luck
,leon
We had tried this back in DC-R, Tanelorn had the "greatest" idea for DC-R: Tactics. He basically did all the work and increased the spawn timer and decreased the round time so you got 1 maybe 2 lifes in game. They were small urban maps with Objectives like blow up the Insurgent Ammo Catche...

It Failed Miserably. It's not suited to BF Type gameplay.
[Fr]WhiteMoon
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Post by [Fr]WhiteMoon »

Thx for this interesting information. Tell us more if you want cause the idea had to be tried :D
Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

With regards to bleed and securing the most land on the battlefield:

From what I understand from AAS v2, on a double assault map, a team could capture the flag in front of their rear base flag and set up an awesome defense while the enemy is capturing all the other flags.

The defenders, using their entire team can dig in and wait for the assault.

If the teams are balanced, the side that organized their defense for the first few minutes of the match WILL have the advantage when the assaulters arrive. As we all know, all things balanced, the defenders win.

If both COs did this then no action would be seen.

Granted we are playing to destroy things, but if I can get my enemy to attack my defending position at the squad level or platoon level, awesome.

With bleed. It forces the CO to move his unit to more map quadrants, instead of playing it safe and focusing on defense. This in turn forces them to be thinned out a little.

But because of the excellence of AAS, not as thinned out as before. There is still that important flag needed to support the lines and prevent the enemy from pushing you back further.

In fact, if conquest bleed were in AAS, then there would be one or two or three (based on map design) flag that would be extremely important to the entire battle. Controlling that flag would
A. bleed the enemy
B. Stop your team from bleeding and stop bleed on the enemy (happens if the CPs are even numbered)
C. Stop bleed for you and start bleed on them.


With time, all decent players will strive for this flag/s and understand the importance of holding the MOST ground AND defending the CP from the enemy.

I enjoy how AAS v2 allows more options when assaulting. This takes away the predictability of the gameplay from before.

IMO, adding a bleed system were having the LESSER amount of flags is detrimental to the team who is not assaulting or pushed back, and rewarding to the team who has taken the resources and casualties in gaining enemy positions, would make for better gameplay.
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pseudonym
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The truth about grenades

Post by pseudonym »

Okay.. so far this game is really great, but I do have one thing that agrivates me;

You can NOT, throw a grenade farther then it's kill zone! PERIOD..


no no no no no.. you can't toss a grenade hundreds of feet! If you throw a frag grenade, you MUST MUST MUST be behind hard cover or you die. End of story. This idea that we can toss a grenade and then stand up and watch it explode in the distance is simply wrong. Grenades are NOT light. You get you butt down behind something that is going to block the shrapnel, peek over, toss the grenade and then get back down before it explodes! You also don't hold them in your hands with the pin and handle out. There's is a four second timer on the thing and you do NOT want it going off in the air. If it does it is likely to hit both you AND your buddies behind you.

If this is a reality mod, then grenades have to be modified greatly. Here is a quote from the wiki page on Hand Grenades;

These grenades were sometimes classed as defensive grenades because the effective casualty radius of some matched or exceeded the distance they could be thrown, thus necessitating them being thrown from behind cover. The hand-sized Mills bomb or F1 grenade - both now out of production - are examples of defensive grenades where the 30 – 45 m casualty radius [1] matched or exceeded the 30 m that a grenade could reasonably be thrown.

Modern fragmentation grenades such as the United States of America "M67 baseball" (nicknamed for its more spherical shape as compared to the Vietnam war era "M61 egg" or World War II era "Mk 2 pineapple") have a wounding radius of 15 m (half that of older style grenades which may still be encountered) and can be thrown about 40 m. Fragments may travel as much as nearly six times this throwing distance. [2]


SIX TIMES THE THROWING DISTANCE! What they are calling a "wounding radius" is really the killzone. Trust me, they don't "wound" at that distance. That means that the fragments can travel 240m! There is a reason you get down behind cover and yell GRENADE! when you throw the things. When you train with them there are two guys in heavy body armor standing beside you and I have seen them throw people to the ground who didn't get down fast enough. It is silly that in BF people use them as a long range weapon.

So.. can we fix that?

peace
pseudonym
Posts: 2
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Post by pseudonym »

For a more complete guide to the M67 Fragmentation Grenade see;

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m67.htm

Here is my favorite quote from the page;

"(6) Capabilities -- can be thrown 40 meters by average soldier. The effective casualty-producing radius is 15 meters. ALTHOUGH THE KILLING RADIUS IS 5 METERS AND THE CASUALTY PRODUCING RADIUS OF THIS GRENADE IS 15 METERS, FRAGMENTS CAN DISPERSE AS FAR AWAY AS 230 METERS."
Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Saobh came up with this idea.

Have the rally points requested by the SL, and approved by the CO.


I would recommend having about four tops no matter the sever population.

Leaving the same amount of players in the squad to get this should of corce stay.
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Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Here is a type of game mode that is Conquest and AAS combined.
It requires organized unit structure to capture rear flags, and it bleeds the enemy with the less amount of flags.

The general principle of the mode will be to INCREASE the number of warriors to capture certain flags based upon their realtion to the most rear flag. Keep in mind, this can focus on neutralizing a or capturing a flag.

assume it is a 64 player map.
Let's start at the most rear flag. The flag that has a black circle on the mission briefing screen.

You would need half your team to affect this flag. So let’s put the number at 16. If the server is not full, this becomes even tougher.
During random play, no way this gets organized and happens.
Maybe during a scrim, but were there is choppers, there is AA, so any Hollywood assault, should get repulsed with ease by an organized team.

The flag/sthat is second to the rear needs about a third of the team to affect it. So lets but it at 11. Odds are a little better, but a lot of coordination is needed.

The next level of flags would require about 1/4 of the team. So 4 should do it. Essentially, four players are needed to affect a flag in the middle of the map. Now it is 2, I believe.

Keep in mind this script is either for neutralizing or capping a flag.

I would recommend, that the two most rear black flags, only be neutralized.

If a team has their rear flag/s nuetrilzed, then they can recap it with four warriors.


In conclusion, I believe this set-up would give COs more option on how to assault and defend, flank, set up AA, tanks, and much more.

Also, it actually destroys the need to cap flags in order. The four player flag cap CO calls are more conservative and less rewarding. Where as rolling the dice with the massive assault is very riskey, but really rewarding.

The need to assault flags in order is gone, so this is a modified conquest mode.
Finally, the team that owns the most CP flags will bleed the enemy.

I believe giving the CO all the options is for best gameplay. With this set-up, running around and capping back flags is very dangerous and will result in a lost of tickets and flags (your team is not defending their front line.)
Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy on 2007-02-16 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Now this is what I want to see in a realism mod:

Medics you cannot use their pack on themselves.
And seeing grunt squads without medics in them. Meaning a squad of 6 infantry grunts does not have a medic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terranova
I like the idea of not letting the medic heal themselves. To prevent what you're saying, why not restrict players from picking up the medic kit from the ground. The only way to obtain the medic kit is to spawn as one. It's quite silly for the ordinary rifleman to pick up their fallen buddies medical equipment, and suddenly they become an instant medic.



_____



That would take care of it. I forgot how much scripting can be done with this mod. Good thinking man. I am supporting you on this. A wounded medic at best can put a filed dressing on them selfs.

You know, if we prevent the medic from healing itself, the sudden population of medics would drop something fierce...

Cool!!

Furthermore, it would require the medic to role play their kit better. Meaning, staying low and focusing just on healing and reviving. Sure, they help out with supressive fire here and there, but that is it tops.

In real life there are only one or two medics to an entire platoon.

What I would like to see would be a medic squad of about four medics/team. The SL will issue medics to grunt squads. Let's say, one medic per 2 full squads. The CO will let the grunt squads know what medic is assigned to them. The medic will hover around the two squads and look after them.
Due to the excellence of AAS v2, the grunt squads will be in closer together.

For good measure, we could create a medic support vehicle for them to drive around in. Sort of like the Engineer vehicle. Cool! Not that important actually.

The medic SL will receive orders on were medic support is needed.

Medics should not be concerned about the assault or defense, just keeping their team healthy and alive. Keeping them in one squad will improve their manegment and allow them to communicate on who revives who. What I mean is, when they do kill the enemy, it is to defend the squad/s they are assign to. That is their objective.

____

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[T]Terranova7
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Post by [T]Terranova7 »

Some interesting reads today. Anyhow, some suggestions/ideas I've been thinking about lately. Most of which aren't really worth creating a whole new topic for.

-----

Jamming

There have been discussions on it before, I know. But I think I might have stumbled across a way in which jamming could be implemented.

First, we'll take the "overheating" funtion for most of the MGs and various other weapons. Perpetual fire will cause the overheat meter to rise until it's full, and by that time you can't fire the weapon because it's too hot. I'm sure everyone is familiar with that.

Now what if we took that concept, and tweaked it up for the small arms so that instead of overheating, your weapon jams. Basically, when the player fires his weapon, an invisible meter slowly rises (It also slowly decreases). Once that meter reaches max, the player can no longer fire because his weapon is jammed.

At this point your simply adding the overheat function to the small arms. But would it be possible to apply a "fix jam" animation when the weapon fully overheats? And at the fix, the meter reaches minimum and the player is able to fire his weapon again.

The "Jam" could vary for different rifles. Something like this would encourage players to be more conservative with their rifles instead of spraying and praying. I see this alot with the M16, where players just set it to the burst function, but fire it rapidly like a full auto assault rifle.

-----

Player Effects

By player effects, I mean the bleeding, ringing and other effects the player experiences from the HUD perspective.

Something new to start. Anyone played America's Army? I haven't played it in a while, but I remember that your first person view used to shake when you were shot. Something I notice in PR (And BF2 in general) is that your view is still rather stable once you've been hit. This allows the player to still fire accurately despite having a round or two just injected into his body.

The idea here is to simply "shake" the player's HUD when damage is taken. Specifically when you only receive damage (Gunshots, nearby explosives, falls etc.). However, the "shake" could apply to a nearby explosion going off even if it doesn't hurt you. That would be something to add to the "ringing" effect that happens when you stand too close to a tank or something.

But besides that, I believe the "shake" effect would benefit the mod. An enemy taking fire should not be capable to returning fire accurately. This would encourage players to take cover (and more than likely request a medic) when receiving gunfire. Too many times have I shot my opponent, only for him to deliver a well placed HS on me or something. It would make tactics like suppression fire and such alot more useful.

Back to the "ringing effect". I would simply like to see this last a while longer. Like after an artillery barrage, any survivors should be too disoriented to really do much.

And finally for Player Effects, when your critically wounded would it be possible to implement some sort of "light" effect. Basically, the lower your "critically wounded" timer gets, the brighter this white light becomes. Once you're killed however, your screen becomes black.

-----

Field Commander

Let's make the Commander a bit more useful here shall we? I'm not talking about adding new assets, but giving him slightly more functionality.

The first idea is simple, make the Commander a mobile spawn point for the team (Or possibly just SLs if it becomes a balance or abuse issue). Not only would having a commander on a team be more useful this way, but it would also encourage the commander to manuver himself around a little bit instead of sitting at the main base staring at his command screen all day long.

Also, how about making it so that in order to use the commader assets and other key functions, the Commander must equip the Officer's Kit (Or potentially a "Commander's Kit").

I also read the log for the upcoming server patch. Something about a "Commander's Rally Point" for the future. Don't know what your plans are on that, but I think something like that would be interesting. Just like the ability to spawn on the Commander, everyone could spawn at his Rally Point, including himself.

However for balance purposes, players cannot request kits from the Commander's Rally Point (This is to encourage players to rely on their squads RP over the Commander's).

And if possible, make it so that the Commander can have his own squad. it would be limited to maybe 2 other slots and himself. As it is, I can imagine the Commander position is quite unattractive to players because it's quite a lonely position. But besides that, SLs don't always follow what the Commander wants, so having a couple of "henchmen" help the commander do a few tasks for him such as repairing the stationary objects (Artillery, Radar, Emplacements etc.), defending a certain flag, conducting recon etc.

That's all fo the Commander

-----

Spawning

I made a topic for it a week or so ago. It got no responses sadly enough :( . But I guess I'll just bring the idea up here again.

I notice the rally point models are sometimes used as soldier spawns at control points. However, when they are destroyed that's it, they're gone. My idea is this, add these dynamic spawns to each flag in the form of a perimeter of sorts. These spawns act like the other stationary objects ingame, in that they can be destroyed, but they can be repaired.

They can also serve either side. So if a certain flag with the spawn points is taken by the enemy team, they can now use those spawn points for themselves, but not your team.

This would make defending play a much more vital role here. Because now, every CP is a spawn area for your team. It's your "frontline base" so to speak. If you allow the enemy to destroy these spawns, your entire team suffers by spawning back at main base.

In general, this restores the importance of controling CPs too. The new system with the Rally Points and APCs doesn't really give any incentive to control a flag. Instead you capture it and move on. You don't worry about the flag because you can spawn at a nearby APC or something to continue assaulting the enemy. If the CPs had spawn points, it would make maintaining control of the flag alot more essential.

-----

Detailed Maps

I brought this up in another topic a while ago.

The Grid Squares are nice for more tactical depth, but I would still like to see simple names given to key areas, structures and roads. I'll post exactly what I had before about this idea.
Terranova wrote:Not really on-topic with the original poster, but I thought I'd post this here anyways as I think it applies to the thread's title. It's a small suggestion, but I think it would be extremely useful in navigating and identifying areas on the maps.

Basically the idea is to give certain areas and structures a name or codename. So for example, you can codename one of the bridges on Qwai River "Alpha Bridge" or name one of the roads on Muttrah City "Persia Road" or something. I did some quick editing with MS paint to further express what I'm trying to say.

(Click on the thumbnail)
Image

As you can see, I've given names to some of the general areas. But I think this would help particulary in navigation. Using the example above, you can voice over to your squadmates to move the Humvee from Pigfarm onto "Road Bravo", and to follow the road as far as "Lake Joe". Cross the "Bravo Bridge" and head south through "Sector 2" in an attempt to flank the PLA's fishing village. Without those identified locations, it becomes "Guys... uh get on the road to the north and head west so we can flank village". Which would lack some important details as to how the SL or Commander might specifically want the squad or players to move.
That's all for now :D
Last edited by [T]Terranova7 on 2007-02-17 05:57, edited 1 time in total.
Garrison
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Post by Garrison »

Rick_the_new_guy wrote:Saobh came up with this idea.

Have the rally points requested by the SL, and approved by the CO.


I would recommend having about four tops no matter the sever population.

Leaving the same amount of players in the squad to get this should of corce stay.
TOO REALISTIC :) I was in, I had to know the CoC from my Team Leader to every guy above me to the George W. Trust me if theres one thing you don't want to emulate in PR about the Military, its the Bureaucracy.

And 60-70% of the time I play (which is alot) there is NO commander.
Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Garrison wrote:TOO REALISTIC :) I was in, I had to know the CoC from my Team Leader to every guy above me to the George W. Trust me if theres one thing you don't want to emulate in PR about the Military, its the Bureaucracy.

And 60-70% of the time I play (which is alot) there is NO commander.
:-D Hopefully, if the CO has more responsibilites and the team with a CO clearly has this advantage, then the number should go up to 70-80%. :-D

The CO if given feedback from the SLs, and is paying attention to the battle, should be the one to make such calls.
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[T]Terranova7
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Post by [T]Terranova7 »

Some new suggestions from frontlines.

Prone Fast Movement

It's pretty self explanatory. Basically, when the player is prone, he can press his sprint button (or double tap the forward key) and he'll move twice as fast than normal. I think something like this exists in RO. Basically, the player has the option to move at a normal pace, or move at a hasty crawl. "Sprinting" while prone will drain your stamina also.

This can be useful as alot of times you need to keep low, but move fast.

Crouch Toggle w/Fast Movement

It's been suggested before, and I'm not sure if it's possible. But it's as simple as making the crouch like the prone position. This way, you don't waste a finger by keeping it against your crouch key for a period of time. You should only have to press it once. Press the crouch key twice and you're standing again.

If that's possible, try adapting the "Fast Movement" suggestion for the crouch position also.

Artillery

Longer, stronger, spine tingling artillery (hehe). I don't know the future plans on artillery, but the commander's barrage is still an extremely useful asset for the team.

I read somewhere that it's not possible to edit VBF2 artillery. So if you guys intend on creating your own custom version, here are some things I'd like to see.

1. Artillery barrage expands across a greater radius, thus covering more ground.
2. Increase damage and splash damage of artillery.
3. Artillery barrage lasts a little longer, but it also reloads alot longer too.

Those are just my ideas on artillery strikes.

That's all for now.
Teh_Mac
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Post by Teh_Mac »

Garrison wrote: Trust me if theres one thing you don't want to emulate in PR about the Military, its the Bureaucracy.
QFT.
Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

Teh_Mac wrote:QFT.
Not sure what read tape has to do with this.

At, TG, the CO sets the entire tempo of the battle, by issueing the orders and setting the startegy.

SLs, obey the CO, and SMs, obey the SL.


____

I am not following you guys.

I believe such a thing would increase the chance of having a commander. IMO, COs are more needed in this mod.

Note: PR .5 has no effect of the smarts of the CO.

____

I am just worried that the CO will start to lose its potintial for organized and effect play. Did you guys now that with PoE2, players dislike the CO position. I do not want the CO to become regressively and regressively weaker with PR.

Again, the reason there are very little COs, is because the postion is not all that needed. Make it more needed.

I mean, Jesus Christ, you need to have half a squad to be effective in this game (get kits). COs, should be one of the first positions taken to make your team affective.
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ArmedDrunk&Angry
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Post by ArmedDrunk&Angry »

I want henchmen.
I would like flunkies as well but I really need Henchmen !!!!
And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
[T]Terranova7
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Post by [T]Terranova7 »

Rick_the_new_guy wrote:Not sure what read tape has to do with this.

At, TG, the CO sets the entire tempo of the battle, by issueing the orders and setting the startegy.

SLs, obey the CO, and SMs, obey the SL.


____

I am not following you guys.

I believe such a thing would increase the chance of having a commander. IMO, COs are more needed in this mod.

Note: PR .5 has no effect of the smarts of the CO.

____

I am just worried that the CO will start to lose its potintial for organized and effect play. Did you guys now that with PoE2, players dislike the CO position. I do not want the CO to become regressively and regressively weaker with PR.

Again, the reason there are very little COs, is because the postion is not all that needed. Make it more needed.

I mean, Jesus Christ, you need to have half a squad to be effective in this game (get kits). COs, should be one of the first positions taken to make your team affective.
Well from what I've read lately, there are some plans on including some sort of Commander Rally Point. That should be interesting, but other than that you should take a look at my "Field Commander" ideas in an earlier post. :)
Rick_the_new_guy
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Post by Rick_the_new_guy »

More on medics. IRL a platoon will have only a couple of medics. Plus, they stay low and react to grunt injurys.

So I would like to see the following:
Make the current medic kit that you can choose from from the standard 7 kits, only be able to heal and not revive. This kit will be a hybrid between a medic and a grunt.

For it to work well:

Make the new hybrid medic/grunt kit not be able to heal themselves with their health pack. Of cource they will have three field dressings to toss at others and to use on themselves.
Maybe a couple of frags.

A special midic kit for reviving is found in the special kits. Like before these are limited based upon how many players are on the team.
The current Corpsman kit will be used as the limited kit.

PR has greatly reduced the amount of medics seen with BF2. The zombie medic assault squads are nearly gone. Let's finish them off by making the true medics a limited kit.
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Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy on 2007-02-19 04:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt23
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Post by Matt23 »

realistic as can get choppers. so only those committed to flying can fly, and learn them.
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