prone madness

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-02-21 05:03

i know there are abunch of posts about this but the search is to huge and none of them have gotten through to everybody so here it is.

the insti prone thing is REALLY starting to piss me off, its one of the bigger problems of the game and it has yet to be touched. besides the fact that its not realistic its just really gay to see some1 flop to the ground whenever they please. it wouldnt be a hard fix. just make it the exact opposite of what happens when you go from prone to standing, where there is the slight delay. then it will keep guys with M4s (as they are the biggest culprit,easy gun, easy kills, thats how they like it) from falling to the floor like a old guy that just had a stroke.
you should be able to go down right away, just not be able to shoot for around a second.

simple (well id think so sense EA did it pretty much and if they can do it you guys should be able to do it with your eyes closed) yet huge game play improvement.

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2007-02-21 05:10

I have the perfect counter measure for it, they always seem to insta prone at close range, right? So just aim for their head, it always lands near the same spot everytime, Its almost like they are giving you a free kill!

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-02-21 05:13

I wish it could work like FH. When you dive prone, from running, you hit the ground with your crosshair VERY wide and almost impossible to rely on the middle point to see where your shot would land. You'd actually have to wait up to a second or so until your crosshair regains accuracy again....

I have been noticing a LOT of insta-proners again and it is starting to tick me off. I understand it's a valid game tactic but it's cheesy as hell and completely eradicates the immersiveness of the game when I see someone do it.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-02-21 05:18

when you are going prone it should count as sprinting, so you cant fire for a sec until 1 second after you hit the ground

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-02-21 05:26

Sneak Attack wrote: it wouldnt be a hard fix. just make it the exact opposite of what happens when you go from prone to standing, where there is the slight delay.

simple (well id think so sense EA did it pretty much and if they can do it you guys should be able to do it with your eyes closed) yet huge game play improvement.

probably wouldn't be too hard, but I'm guessing stuff like this is hard coded. I could be wrong though, but if it's possible to do then it would be awesome.

Teek · Post by **Teek** » 2007-02-21 05:34

I dont think its hard-coded, and they may be a alot of different approaches to that.

blud · Post by **blud** » 2007-02-21 05:34

Guys, I'm SURE that if they could have fixed this they would have already. Don't you think??

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2007-02-21 05:38

PlayPR! wrote:I have the perfect counter measure for it, they always seem to insta prone at close range, right? So just aim for their head, it always lands near the same spot everytime, Its almost like they are giving you a free kill!

Yo uwill find shooting people who are prone diving tends to kill only 50% opf the time. Despite the blood you see fly away from them, their hitbox is much less responsive.

...mongol...

luizinhuu · Post by **luizinhuu** » 2007-02-21 05:43

the dev team is bigger now.. maybe we'll have some fix for this since there are more coders and stuff. a reminder about this is always a good thing

Post by **eggman** » 2007-02-21 06:16

Yeah I think it's the last really arcade element left in the infantry dynamics.

wrt the crosshairs in FH .. there is a similar effect in PR, you just don't see it because there are no crosshairs. Still doesn't solve it.

If you look at the SAWs in v0.5 we would like to make all weapon behave like that.

To properly fix it .. imo it's 2 parts:
1. boost the player movement speed when sights are zoomed
.. walk w zoom would be walk speed now
.. to go slow you would have to crouch

2. make zooming take longer (like the SAWs)

3. make the prone animation take longer

That way if you are walking with sights raised / zoomed you will always have an advantage over the guy who is unzoomed (and attempts to spam to prone).

The guy who did the SAW animations dissappeared (happens with modders hehe).

We have recently come into some animators again so er.. gonna give it another try hehe. It's *a lot* of animations to tweak .. like 30+ animations .. and you can't exactly only do some weapons and not others (SAWs were a logically unique weapon to test the zoom changes on).

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-02-21 06:45

i hope it gets fixed for .6 because in my book it is just as bad as bunny hopping.

Smitty4212 · Post by **Smitty4212** » 2007-02-21 07:15

It's much worse, in my book. Bunny hopping at least prevents you from shooting, and depending on the situation, can make you an easier target. Insta-proning doesn't give you any disadvantages that I can think of. Of course, I do it all the time because everyone does it. You almost have to if you both come around a corner looking at each other. It's pretty bad, and I can't wait for that to be changed.

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-02-21 14:33

Okay, you can't shoot while jumping. You can't shoot while sprinting. You can only shoot once you hit the ground. Now this is usually a gripe that is really about nothing. Because of lag and all that, on your side it appears that your opponent shot while in mid prone or maybe while jumping. WHen in reality he was fully proned or fired before he dropped.

Also, I have stated before that a normal human firing a weapon can do this. Usually it takes place in close quarters.... so basically within 10 feet. Now, almost anyone can walk, drop to prone and hit something that close. I know I can do it at distances greater than that.

Seems like a silly argument.

luizinhuu · Post by **luizinhuu** » 2007-02-21 14:47

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Yeah I think it's the last really arcade element left in the infantry dynamics.

wrt the crosshairs in FH .. there is a similar effect in PR, you just don't see it because there are no crosshairs. Still doesn't solve it.

If you look at the SAWs in v0.5 we would like to make all weapon behave like that.

To properly fix it .. imo it's 2 parts:
1. boost the player movement speed when sights are zoomed
.. walk w zoom would be walk speed now
.. to go slow you would have to crouch

2. make zooming take longer (like the SAWs)

3. make the prone animation take longer

That way if you are walking with sights raised / zoomed you will always have an advantage over the guy who is unzoomed (and attempts to spam to prone).

The guy who did the SAW animations dissappeared (happens with modders hehe).

We have recently come into some animators again so er.. gonna give it another try hehe. It's *a lot* of animations to tweak .. like 30+ animations .. and you can't exactly only do some weapons and not others (SAWs were a logically unique weapon to test the zoom changes on).

that's lovely, it'd improve so much
while you guys are at it try and increase the speed while crawling, like in Arma. it's annoying being sooo slow while in prone.. you can crawl faster than that, same to the crouch position

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-02-21 15:37

Determined wrote: Also, I have stated before that a normal human firing a weapon can do this. Usually it takes place in close quarters.... so basically within 10 feet. Now, almost anyone can walk, drop to prone and hit something that close. I know I can do it at distances greater than that.

Seems like a silly argument.

yeah, it's possible. But how often do you see this happening in combat? Imagine a CQB situation, you are about 4m from a corner and a guy comes from there. Do you jump on the ground or do you just shoot him?

Aljen · Post by **Aljen** » 2007-02-21 15:39

I would really like to see video of someone doing it in RL.

SevenOfDiamonds · Post by **SevenOfDiamonds** » 2007-02-21 16:13

I had the prone diving stuff too. But i hate how they roll to the side somtimes. thats the ones that really piss me off.

Rick_the_new_guy · Post by **Rick_the_new_guy** » 2007-02-21 16:55

That's great news egg. You guys are the best.

I always take a knee when I need to fire real sudden like.

Like bunny hoppen, I never got into prone spamming.

Wipeout · Post by **Wipeout** » 2007-02-21 17:00

Aim for there feet! it's the best way.. Everyone instaprones almost. Just aim for the feet they insta prone, they die. They miss your head they die too!

Nephrmuus · Post by **Nephrmuus** » 2007-02-21 19:55

coolhand wrote:I wish it could work like FH. When you dive prone, from running, you hit the ground with your crosshair VERY wide and almost impossible to rely on the middle point to see where your shot would land. You'd actually have to wait up to a second or so until your crosshair regains accuracy again....

They did this in vBF2142 as well, so even DICE agrees that prone-spammers must go (if only they could have made some efforts against the bunny-brigade...but since in their engine you can't step over a 4-inch tall railway line without resorting to jumping, I really doubt they'll be doing anything about that any time soon!). You also get a massive crosshair if you stand up/or crouch striaght from prone too. These effects pretty much stop prone-spamming, even in a vanilla game and is one of the reasons I can just about manage playing vBF2142 (vBF2 makes me cry for SOOO many reasons). There are still prone-spammers about, but I just crouch when "duelling" them and every bullet hits the mark compared to them mostly missing...

***EDIT***
I don't prone-spam in PR, although it is more effective, for the same reason I don't bunny-hop! You could argue that I zoom-spam though, which isn't something others can see you doing so easily, if at all. I do like Eggman's ideas for preventing zoomspammers!