flags pissing me off

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-02-22 22:08

i dont really know how to start this one...

it really pisses me off how "useless" flags are in 0.5, like it pisses me off ALOT. they are completely worthless except for ticket bleed. you cant spawn on them, you cant request things at them, you cant do shit with them.

in the Battlefield series taking a flag is kind of like setting up a base. it would be like in WW2 how the USA would take an island from the Japs and use it. the US didnt just take them to reduce the amount of land the Japs had, they took them and then used them.
Wake Island is a great example. after the US captured it from the Japs they used it as a run way for planes, ships would resupply there, it would be like a home away from home. but then the ships left and left a few guys and 4 planes back to defend it. Then those carriers went and took Midway from the japs and then that was also used as resupply and runway and what not.

in PR it should be the same way, if a flag is taken you should be able to spawn at it and request some kits like support or sniper but not Heavy AT/Air.
and depending on the maps a hummer/FAV could spawn, maby on some bigger maps an APC could spawn.

i know the rally points and spawnable APCs are suppost to do away with needing to spawn on flags, which works on some maps but its just not true for others. or if you get a squadleader that doesnt know whats going on and doesnt ever put rally points down, or the enemy keeps finding them because he sucks at hiding them, you end up walking all the way across the map and then it always seems like you get killed right before you put the spawn down or something ridiculous like that.

but here is what makes it different...
you are still unable to spawn on the flags which are objectives.

lets say we are playing Golf of Oman on the mec team. when first starting off they wouldnt be able to spawn on the first 4 flags because they are the objectives at the time.

you see what im saying? i think it would be a good idea sense i always here people saying how having to walk 8 billion miles angers them as it does me. it wouldnt be an issue really if there was perfect teamwork but that is extremely rare for BF2

Post by **RikiRude** » 2007-02-22 22:11

I actually like the idea of having non objective flags be capable of spawn points, so like on EJOD desert if you are the US and you have ruins you can spawn at gas station?

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-02-22 22:23

My idea for spawning. (Made a while back)

Spawning

I made a topic for it a week or so ago. It got no responses sadly enough. But I guess I'll just bring the idea up here again.

I notice the rally point models are sometimes used as soldier spawns at control points. However, when they are destroyed that's it, they're gone. My idea is this, add these dynamic spawns to each flag in the form of a perimeter of sorts. These spawns act like the other stationary objects ingame, in that they can be destroyed, but they can be repaired.

They can also serve either side. So if a certain flag with the spawn points is taken by the enemy team, they can now use those spawn points for themselves, but not your team.

This would make defending play a much more vital role here. Because now, every CP is a spawn area for your team. It's your "frontline base" so to speak. If you allow the enemy to destroy these spawns, your entire team suffers by spawning back at main base.

In general, this restores the importance of controling CPs too. The new system with the Rally Points and APCs doesn't really give any incentive to control a flag. Instead you capture it and move on. You don't worry about the flag because you can spawn at a nearby APC or something to continue assaulting the enemy. If the CPs had spawn points, it would make maintaining control of the flag alot more essential.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-02-22 22:24

hehe .. valid considerations .. and er.. we'll just have to get v0.6 out the door asap to help illustrate why we have changed flags to separate spawning and flag ownership as 2 different things.

eL33t · Post by **eL33t** » 2007-02-22 22:42

I completely understand people's concerns with the lack of spawn points at cappable flags, but if there were spawn points at the flags I think there might be too many spawn points. As it is right now you can spawn on...

Your Squadleader 1
Your Rally Point 1
Your Main Base 1
Your APC's ~2

That's about 4, 5, or more spawn locations already.

Now you are telling me that on a 64 player map with all these spawn locations already, you want to add the possibility of 4 to 5 more? I think that this is a case of trying to treat the symptoms and not the cause of the problem.

If there was some sort of system that made it so squad leaders could be voted out of the squad if they were not performing their duties correctly then more squad leaders would be setting up their rally points. If the rally point system was used correctly, I believe that this would alleviate these issues. Also it should be mandatory that squad leaders use their in-game VOIP since PR is so fundamentally based on it.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it

Kitoro · Post by **Kitoro** » 2007-02-22 23:00

Flags are vehicle resources, useless my a$$. Modern war is mechanized.

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-02-22 23:01

well considering that a squadleader can die or be foreign and not know whats going on
a rally point can be blown up and then you have to weight an hour before it can be placed again
Main Base is a light year away from where you need to be.
APC drivers seem to not know how to stop and let people out

and the main base and APC are the only one that everybody can spawn on. out of 5 or 6 good sized squads on 64 man servers i will often see only 2 or 3 RPs up, which means all the other squads are getting shafted and are screwed in the APC blows up.
the argument is always if it was used correctly with teamwork... but ever sense i started playing the 1942 wake island demo i have rarely seen great teamwork, not just squad work but full on teamwork.

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-02-22 23:02

flags do nothing for vehicle's, they dont fix, give, re supply. they dont do anything for vehicles.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-02-22 23:15

yeah fair enough .. good points.... I'm not gonna argue "but if you use them properly blah, blah..." cuz that's a flawed argument heh.

The truth is that v0.5 is missing some important elements. Blame me

I pushed v0.4 out the door .. many team members felt it needed more work (which it did) but a buggy release is a lot more fun to play than a non existent release the devs sit around on the dev forums and circle jerk about.

I also pushed v0.5 out the door knowing that it was missing some critical elements. Again.. getting player feedback is a lot more useful than us circle jerking away on private forums.

I'm also gonna try and *really* trim down v0.6 scope (even more than has already been trimmed) so we can get the remaining elements into play. Once that is done maybe there will be some feedback about the systems we don't already know .. but to be honest (and I'm not being a smart *** with this comment) I've yet to see a post about the spawning mechanics (merits and flaws) that we didn't already know about.

eL33t · Post by **eL33t** » 2007-02-22 23:18

Sneak Attack wrote: APC drivers seem to not know how to stop and let people out...

the argument is always if it was used correctly with teamwork... but ever sense i started playing the 1942 wake island demo i have rarely seen great teamwork, not just squad work but full on teamwork.

Exactly, so how do they go about fixing those problems? Those are the questions we should be raising. Figure out ways so that team work is manageable, and so that you can communicate with the driver of an APC to let you out etc... Treat the causes, not the symptoms!