Negative points for deaths in .6

[puglous]

Obviously dieing during a game hurts your team: They lose a ticket. So I think it would make sense if you lost points for death. After all, points are supposed to measure your contribution to your team: if you do nothing by die three times during the game, and never kill, capture, heal, or repair, you are nothing but a liability because you cost your team three tickets. So if your contribution was negative, shouldn't you get a negative score?

Dieing would take away the same amount of points a kill would gain (so yes, dieing as a more critical target would carry greater penalty).

Of course, 90% of the people here are going to think this idea is dumb just because it hasn't yet been implemented, even though such an attitude defeats the whole purpose of suggestions; But for the 10% who agree, or can point out the flaws in this idea, I'd like to hear what you think.

[daranz]

I honestly don't give a **** about scores in PR. I do not, however, want to be kicked from a server because I died a lot. That's just plain unfair.

Negative scores, as they are now, are awarded to people who do something that really hurts the team, like TK or lose a vehicle. Dying is part of everyday life in PR, however. People HAVE to die, because nobody want to have 40 minute firefights with no result. Giving people negative score because of deaths would either mean having them autokicked if they died too much, or removing autiokick, making it possible for real TKers to ruin the game without fear.

[Nephrmuus]

Although I strongly agree with this suggestion in theory, I can see a small problem, which may be why the game isn't scored like this already: Negative points are associated with teamkilling and a lot of servers will kick you if you get too many negative points. If you have a bad start-of-round and build up a few negative points, will you be kicked? Even if you don't get auto-kicked, will others assume you are griefing teamkiller just because you got ambushed a few times before you managed to start raking up kill/support points to offset your deaths? However, if there is a way around this issue that I can't see, I'd be very happy with the introduction of negative points for death (e.g. you can't go below 0 points for deaths?); In particular, I hate that Rambo with 20:20 K ratio (net gained 0 tickets for team) is lead to believe they are doing better than someone who is cautious and just 10:5 (net gained 5 tickets for team).

[puglous]

Well, I'm not positive about the scoring in PR, but I know in BF2 a kill would give you +2, while a TK would give you -8. If the point/death penalty were implemented in BF2, I'd say it would just be a penalty of -2, so it would be anywhere near the equivalent of a TK.

I understand your point, but isn't there another component to getting auto-kicked. Isn't something in the server tracked when you get punished for a TK which works towards getting you kicked, as opposed to the score itself?

[ub3rxn00b]

Stupid idea. It contributes absolutely nothing to the game, and only introduces new problems.

[puglous]

Stupid idea. It contributes absolutely nothing to the game, and only introduces new problems.

It allows people to value their own survival, like in real-life. It causes people to take their team's ticket loss into their priority list. It allows points to accurately reflect someone's helpfulness to the team.

From the first sentence it should have been clear that it would contribute much more than your post.

[daranz]

You know, I don't want to die anyway. I doubt anyone wants to wait 30+ seconds to get back in the fight. Point penalty is not going to stop people from dying, because it just happens.

[jerkzilla]

You know, I don't want to die anyway. I doubt anyone wants to wait 30+ seconds to get back in the fight. Point penalty is not going to stop people from dying, because it just happens.

Yes, you are right, people don't want to die anyway... BUT it would affect how much the usual player will do to avoid death. You are also right that people won't stop dieing. It's a FPS so if someone wants a kill, someone has to die.
America's Army has something like this. In that game, if you killed 3 enemies in a round without dieing, you get 30 points. Next round you didn't get any kill and died. From the 30 points left from the first round, 10 are deducted due to your death. However, if you had more deaths than kills, no points were deducted from your overall score, but you wouldn't get any points for any kills until your K/D was 1 or more. Basically, kills and deaths had a separate score that could only be added to your overall score if it was positive.

[Outlawz7]

Well, some servers kick by score, if its negative, they insta-kick the player, and some kick by number of punished TK's..FYI

[Hides-His-Eyes]

in PR, points score you.

Without the ranking system there's no reason to want points

only VICTORY

[Nephrmuus]

Sorry, but you really can't use the argument, "The current points system doesn't measure teamwork", as a reason that we shouldn't change the points system to better measure teamwork. The points system is very flawed currently, but 0.6 is supposedly redressing the current imbalance of points for support work (healing, ammo, etc) and this negative points for deaths suggestion is in the same vein.

While points cannot ever accurately reflect the more abstract notions of teamwork, I think they can do pretty well if the points system is given any love at all. Even now, the fact that you get points whenever your squad-members get points means that even non-scoring support actions, like suppressive fire, are rewarded in a round-about way (You suppress enemies, others outflank enemies and kill them, you get points).

Arguing that we shouldn't have points is fine and I might even support you on that, but arguing that we shouldn't review points if we do have them, is just cutting your nose off to spite your face.

In fact, the same argument is used against the current ticket system since ticket-bleed very rarely decides a game (95% of the time, the win/loss if decided on team K ratio alone - yay for deathmatch!). Personally, I really, really want an improved game-winning system, and I do hope that the devs attempt to improve it at some point before they decide it might be worth scrapping.

[Fenix16]

This would make the already somewhat punishing suicide attack even harsher on the team.

[puglous]

if you want to make deaths something to avoid then the respawn time should be increased, so it is better to retreat than stand and fight more often, and the point system will only back this up instead of attempt to dictate it.

No, because this would change the gameplay in ways we aren't yet sure we want to. Increases spawn time can change the pace of the game, make flags easier to cap, etc. By simply introducing a logical point penalty, we better motivate people to due what is in the best interests of the team because points do a better job of reflecting that, which I'm sure anyone would want to.

Like I said, you would still get points for teamwork, like healing, destroying enemy rally points, etc. Therefore you could still get a positive score with a negative k/d ratio.