Removing the SL spawn; Poll

[Deer]

My option is that ALL types of spawnpoints should be totaly map specific but thats just me.

There is loads of other ways how "spawnpoint" can be used for the gameplay, as well as flags.

The way i see "spawn point" is that there is 2 armies battling, they have 700 soldiers per army. Currently its not technically possible to have 1400 players playing on same server. Only 64/1400 of the soldiers can be "active" at the same time, rest of soldiers are still "coming" from outside of map area to the battlezone, or they are in bunkers or what ever they are doing, just not fighting. So when player dies, he respawns as one of those soldiers who have avoided fighting untill the moment player is thrown into his boots.

Flags are nothing more but tools for game maker to make the gameplay be what he wants it to be.

For example 1 flag could instead be 3 flags just next to eachothers. (but you cant capture em sametime)
-when attackers captures 1/3 flags their "army" moves forward and they get spawn point a lil bit closer than the mainbase
-when attackers captures 2/3 flags, defenders orders their left flank to fall back (meaning they lose spawn point of the left flank)
-when attackers captures 3/3 flags, defender forces falls back to next fortifications (meaning when attackers takes the last of 3 flags, defenders cannot capture any of em back)

Thats one example how flags can be used differently, and i think in right kind of area that would make gameplay nice. Dont forget that capture radius of those 3 flags could be even 1000 metres, the side with more troops in that area slowly captures those flags.

[Outlawz7]

Since when do people respawn at their base IRL?! How do you think removing a feature that allows squads to stick together without much trouble would promote teamwork? It would hurt teamwork and make the game less fun.

For you. Are you the voice of the masses? Think not.

[indigo|blade]

Wolfe you just took that 1 sentence and fragment of a sentence completely out of context. Here's what you quoted:

One more point I'd like to make about the positive effect of SL spawning: ...Faster games.

Now let's quote my entire post, so people who are just dropping in don't get the wrong impression. Next time, have enough decency to give the entire context. Up until now you have been an ok guy to debate with, if a bit naive. You've just crossed into the realm of a person not worth my key strokes.

Here's the whole post up until you stopped your quote:

One more point I'd like to make about the positive effect of SL spawning:

1. From my experience on our [DVB] server where, on most nights, I lead a squad made up of entirely non [DVB] players, it is easier to keep the squad consolidated(and therefore much easier to manage) and on task---when you can spawn on the SL---then it is when the group has to start over from the Main Base.

Now before you bash my point down, let me say this: I think Starting over from the MB is a good consequence overall. Getting knocked back to your Main Base should be a demoralizing/frustrating/wtfdowedonow kind of event. And I think it is now.

However, if you take away one more way to keep things under control, you give the "omg our squad got HAT'd AGAIN and we have to start back at MB AGAIN" a much higher ratio of happening per game.

From my experience, this happens 3-5 times per full game with an experienced squad, depending on the map. With a newbie squad, double that rate. Without Spawn on SL, double that rate again no matter what the experience of the squad!

What does this give us?

1. Less room for error. Making one mistake by one squad can be the deciding factor in a whole game, as the enemy will be able to roll you that much easier.

2. Faster games. Why? Because that one mistake keeps you pinned at your MB while the other team consolidates and bleeds you out. "Use your APCs and flank them!", you say. They see and hear you coming from their new positions, especially on the new SUPER SIZED maps. Which are great, btw.

Now go ahead and read the whole post again Wolfe. Put that quote of yours in context. I think most people will find that quoting me the way you just have is incredibly naive, dastardly, and above all disrespectful. Read, Wolfe, read the whole post.

Picking and choosing specific sentences out of context(in order to disprove a person) is the mark of an un-educated dolt desperately trying to crawl out of a pit he's only recently realized he dug for himself.

You have lost all respect from me, I will consider your posts from here on out non-existent.

[indigo|blade]

Outlawz it doesn't look like he claimed to be.

[AnRK]

Enough with the blanket generalizations.

The No votes aren't making assumptions about your play style and your nationality, so don't go there.

Make a useful contribution towards a solution or don't use your keyboard at all.

Generalisation? I was merely making a politically incorrect joke. It had barely any relevance to the argument.

[Outlawz7]

We can always do an open beta with disabled SL spawn, see how it plays.

[VipersGhost]

Removing any spawn point makes the game less forgiving. Like restricting the movement abilities...remember how many guys moaned about that? Look how good of a job that did at improving so much of the gameplay. In the end it completely needs to be tested for a beta or two, I'd definitely like to see how it would play out. I'm all for removing the SL Spawn and tweaking the rest of the system to improve the gameplay.

[tekkyy]

"Should the ability for enemies to spawn on your flag be removed?"

I'd bet the majority of the responses would be yes.

Bingo

Remove SL (and support truck) spawn.
RP 100m of own flag, no need for squad members to be nearby.

[GR34]

Only remove squad leader spawn once the rally point is down! like in 21442 with the beacon.

[coolhand]

I voted no. Its hard enough to get a group of squadmembers that are willing to tag along their SL. Removing the SL spawn will only encourage more squad members to go about what they feel like doing more whenever they see the squadleader is far away.



BUTTTT.. I will agree to this if there are conditions. Say, the CP gets blasted by the enemy then the SL spawns will no longer work - or something like that. But by default, they should always be on until a commander asset gets blow.

My idea:

Commander spawns a 'radio tower' to symbolize communications which holds the squad together. Enemy blows it: SLs no longer can spawn on their leader since their methods of battlefield communication have been cut off.

[Murderous]

I like the idea of removing it. Although a compromise is going to have to be made, if any change is even going to be made. Is it possible to up the RP distance from a CP to like...400 meters? Also, once within that 400 meter circle, would it be possible to disable SL spawn? That way, it would be very important to move tactically as a squad and even better, ACTIVELY TRY not to get killed?? The bunkers and support trucks can be blown by AT before the assault in most cases...

Edit: 400's a little drastic, maybe 200-300?
Edit#2: Think about this- then it would ACTUALLY be possible to attrit forces holding say, river fort when they pop their melons up for too long...without the endless wave of respawns that makes it almost impossible to take squad v squad

[pasfreak]

umm...maybe, sl spawn doesn't work if a rally is up, or vice versa?

this will either encourage people to use rally points more, or work to keep their sl alive more.

[Rick_the_new_guy]

Either remove it or have some sort of compromise.

Compromise. Have the following locations players can spawn:

APC spawn point
team support vehicle (CO Truck)
bunkers (CO places these)
firebase (CO places this).
Rallypoints (SL place this).

I believe these all should be put into the mod in .7.

P.S. I voted yes.

[808-SLUGGO]

no, and taking away the SL spawn doesnt mean rallys will be used more it just means its gunna be harder to set a rallys fools!

[Murderous]

I like the idea of removing it. Although a compromise is going to have to be made, if any change is even going to be made. Is it possible to up the RP distance from a CP to like...400 meters? Also, once within that 400 meter circle, would it be possible to disable SL spawn? That way, it would be very important to move tactically as a squad and even better, ACTIVELY TRY not to get killed?? The bunkers and support trucks can be blown by AT before the assault in most cases...

Edit: 400's a little drastic, maybe 200-300?
Edit#2: Think about this- then it would ACTUALLY be possible to attrit forces holding say, river fort when they pop their melons up for too long...without the endless wave of respawns that makes it almost impossible to take squad v squad

apparently you didnt read my idea.

[milobr]

Remove it! Yes!

SL spawn does not encourage teamplay and it's unrealistic.

[[T]Terranova7]

SL spawning doesn't encourage or destroy teamwork. It's merely a tool that can be used to whichever end. I think I'll simply repost the "compromise" I created in the other topic regarding this same issue. It still preserves SL spawning, but limits it so that players can't spawn on friendly or enemy CPs, which seems to be the only reason why so many want it out.

I still prefer my "hybrid" idea best. You still need the SL spawn to get the squad together sometimes.
__________________

Here's a scenario: You just joined the server in the middle of the game right? Scroll down the spawn menu to find that all the current squads are filled. You decide to create your own squad. With no members however, you don't have ability to set down a RP. So chances are you go about your business, probably tagging along some other squad or helping the commander build stuff.

Several minutes into the game, more players join and end up in your squad. The problem being you're across the map, and don't have the resources to set down a rally point. Now you have to spend a good deal of time getting together, getting an officer's kit and finding a good spot to lay down a RP.

In another scenario: Let's say the squad is infact organized. We have a RP, a balanced distribution of kits, and a plan of attack (or defence). Suddenly the opposition has engaged in brutal firefight with you and your team. Your squad becomes overwhelmed, and you lose your rally point and several squad members. However you do manage to survive the chaos. Your deceased squad members have no other option but to spawn at the main CP, APC, or commander's asset which may be quite a ways from your position. At this point of the game, most of the transportation assets have been destroyed.

So now the SL may choose to wait for the squad to find a method of transportation back to his/her position, or the SL can find a way to get him/herself killed.

And finally there's the issue of the amount of players needed to use the RP. Without the SL spawn, operating a two or three man squad becomes exceedingly difficult.

__________________

My idea basically restricts SL spawning when the squad leader is within a specified range of an enemy or friendly flag. This way, you never have to worry about SLs hiding on the flag and having his/her squad to consistently spawn in during engagements. You also achieve the same desired effect of having SLs "fall back" & "regroup" should his/her squad take heavy casualities.

To further increase the value of rally points, you could have all kits limited except for the rifleman. This way the only way to have a balanced and diverse squad is to have a RP, and visit that RP frequently.

[DavidP]

Never!

[Wolfe]

Interesting compromise. Something has to be done; it can't stay the way it is.