Mortars, how they could be used

Post by **Rhino** » 2005-12-23 14:21

How me and a m8 have thought the mortar could be used is quite simple, after the mortar is deployed or what ever then you would simply jump in it, and then use the mouse to point it in the direction you want it to fire. on your mini map would be a round (say red) circle, that would indicate around abouts the shell would land. As you move your mouse to aim it further away the red circle on your mini map would move in the direction but at the same time the circle would get bigger, to indicate that as you get further away it would be less accurate and could land around abouts anywhere in that circle. As you move it closer to you the circle gets smaller again

the mortar wouldn't get many rounds, so it would rely on a support kit player next to them or something to give them more ammo which again encourages teamwork

I think there could be 2 types of mortar used (well for the Brit army that is, could be others for other sides)

81mm Mortar
The battle-proven L16A2 81mm Mortar delivers accurate High Explosive (HE), Smoke or Illuminating rounds out to a range of 5650m. The 81mm Mortar can be man-packed in three loads, but mortar detachments are normally vehicle-borne. Mortar platoons in armoured Infantry battalions are mounted in - and can fire from - FV 432 armoured vehicles increasing the mortars mobility and speed into and out of action. The 81mm mortar provides an Infantry battalion with its own indirect fire support.

This could be just used as a weapon that would be in a set place on the battlefield and couldn't not be moved, part of a base defence or somewhere it might be placed. Abit like a stinger sight then ppl can jump into them and use them

51mm Light Mortar
The 51mm Light Mortar is a Platoon level, indirect fire weapon that can be carried and fired by one man. The mortar is used to fire smoke, illuminating and HE rounds out to a range of approximately 750m; a short range insert device enables the weapon to be used in close quarter battle situations with accuracy.

This could be part of the engineers kit. would make the engineer a much more useful player on the battlefield. only get say 5 HE rounds and maybe a few smoke rounds (could be really useful), they would again rely on a support player for more ammo. This could be selected from the kit, then the player would have to deploy it on the ground (taking around 3 or 4 secs to deploy). Then he could fire from where he had deployed this mortar, if he wanted to undeploy it he would have to spend 3 or 4 secs packing it back up.

2 or 3 engineers putting down mortar fire would easily compensate for the lack of arty

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2005-12-23 14:28

Just want to point out, the mate who help devise this was me

As a side note, the mortar shell's would pack as much of a punch as a tank shell, but maybe with less overall damage, but more splash damage.

Post by **Rhino** » 2005-12-23 14:33

JellyBelly wrote:Just want to point out, the mate who help devise this was me

As a side note, the mortar shell's would pack as much of a punch as a tank shell, but maybe with less overall damage, but more splash damage.

abit like a hand nade

Mtnman · Post by **Mtnman** » 2005-12-23 14:47

I have thought of something similar. In lieu of arty, my thought was to place mortars around the maps similar to how the TOW launchers are stationed. If this is possible, they should be place in a sandbagged pit like the one on the roof of the suburb in Karkand.

Their ROF, range & burst radius can be discussed later.

Cirap · Post by **Cirap** » 2005-12-23 15:30

so basically, exactly like Joint Operations?

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2005-12-23 15:32

Rhino wrote:2 or 3 engineers putting down mortar fire would easily compensate for the lack of arty

Have you played Joint Operations? That was some sweet mortars... There was this one map, TKOH mode, with some ruins on a hill you had to control. It was just within max mortar range from your main base (where you could resupply easily). In one game we where about 10 people that mortared the enemy team on the hill. The entire hill was hit by 3-4 rounds every second, like a BF2 artillery barrage lasting the *ENTIRE ROUND*!

Mortars are fun indeed

Too bad we had them in BFV, but lost them in BF2

(I would like that approach better though... Automatic targeting isnt that realistic, really)

Post by **Rhino** » 2005-12-23 17:17

Cirap wrote:so basically, exactly like Joint Operations?

i have not played it no, but jelly here has who i was trying to work out a way of how to use them with

and yes, if it was made the same way as a TOW missle was like a gun implacment then you could easily put it in a sandbag pit

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2005-12-23 17:52

Baisicly, we were looking at 2 versions. 1 Mobile with say 3 rounds, and one stationary.

Post by **Rhino** » 2005-12-23 18:07

JellyBelly wrote:Baisicly, we were looking at 2 versions. 1 Mobile with say 3 rounds, and one stationary.

yes the "81mm Mortar" would be a big morta with long ranges that would be stantionary and the other "51mm Light Mortar" that could be carryed arround by a engineer and has very few rounds

Jaycop · Post by **Jaycop** » 2005-12-23 19:10

How about replacing the Specopclass with a Mortarclass. Would be better IMHO since the Specopclass doesn't really serve any specific purpose.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2005-12-23 19:29

Hmm. I can see what you mean, but I don't think a Mortar class would be very usefull if he only has one sole role. Im sure you could make a sub class of the enginner and arm him with, say, an M4/M16/MP5, knife, pistol and his mortar. You could then use the same kind of system you used in the tanks and give the mortar 2 selectable ammo types. 3 HE Shells and 1 Smoke Shell.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2005-12-23 19:57

you would need some way to mark targets, like a Forward Fire Controller or some way to 'paint' targets. An example of which would be when you 'spot' an en. tank in BF2, you 'Q' it and say 'en. spotted'. Maybe that could be edited in some way to auto-splash targets that the mortor men hear over the radio. The painted target will be on the overview map for say 15 seconds, in which time the mortor guys have to deploy the 51mm, and rain fire down on the target area

Obviously, it'd be an area being painted as opposed to a vehicle or soldier.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-12-23 20:11

This has been discussed before. Mortars are something we plan to include, at least in stationary and vehicle-mounted role. As for man-portable and/or deployable mortars, that's a bit more difficult.

The 51mm platoon light mortar is being phased out of UK service by the L17A1 underslung 40mm grenade launchers in each fire-team. This process started in 2001.

As for man-portable deployable mortars, realistically, they'd have to be in their own kit, if implemented. The lightest US mortar (60mm M224) weighs about 50 lbs in full bipod and baseplate configuration. That's not including ammunition and propellant charges, of course. The gunner in a mortar crew usually carries only a sidearm, relying on ammunition bearers and the rifle units he supports to provide local security. So, realistically, we'd have a class with a sidearm and a large weapon he can't use at all without other players present to drop ammunition when he deploys it. It could be made a very powerful weapon in the right hands, but who would pick it up?

Also, mortars aren't crewed by combat engineers, but by "Indirect Fire Infantrymen" (Army MOS 11C) or Mortarmen (USMC MOS 0341) integral to an infantry company or battalion. Army Special Forces Weapons Sergeants (MOS 18B) are also trained to operate them. In the British Army and Royal Marines, mortars are also operated by infantrymen and are integral to the infantry battalion (and platoon, in the case of the 51mm mortar).

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 2005-12-23 20:14

agreed. Usually in the British Army the poor guy landed as Plt Commander's runner is landed with the 51mm

far3 · Post by **far3** » 2005-12-24 05:42

Mortars pwn, I like that resupply and shoot teamwork idea their. would be cool to gve it a go.

soup31314 · Post by **soup31314** » 2005-12-24 06:53

U.S Army 60 mm weight 49.7 lbs with large base plate and bipod. But it also has a small base plate that brings the weight down to 27 lbs. Also the gunner carries a M4 carbine. A team consist of a gunner, assistant gunner, and ammo bearer. Most the time what will happen is the gunner carries 3 rounds the AG 5-7 rounds (the ammo bearer is a never filled postion). So what we do is spread the rounds out though out the platoon they are supporting.

A good gunner can set up the gun in hand held mode (no bipod) in about 2 seconds. with the bipod and small baseplate in about 5-7 secs.

My refence for this is my roommate who is an 11c

I think that a 60mm would be great for this game. The 81 mm couldnt be used by a single solider cuase its just to damn heavy.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-12-24 07:09

Great info, thanks!

Though I thought the small baseplate was used only in the trigger-fired handheld mode, or is this something in between?

soup31314 · Post by **soup31314** » 2005-12-25 01:34

You can use the small base plate in either.

It all depends on the mission. Our 11c in afganistan carried just the small plate due to the hills we had to climb. the larger plate was when they woudl set up at the bottom and support us from there.

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-12-25 06:04

I really would like the mortar to be in this mod for urban maps only and it would be the ardy and would be controled by the commander.