The M24

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-07 18:51

{WP}Paas - great post!
I like idea...

The SDM class wouldn't have need for a pistol either. An SVD is capable of mutli level magnification, as is a M14 with Optics, (not sure about the PLA rifle, as I have NO hands on experience with it) so it would be the job of the SDM to adjust his sighting for the said sitution. You could implement this similar to the way people change fire rates of rifles. Have the magnification value set outside of the sighting. When you sight, you get the selected value. You would need to unsight in order to adjust the magnification of your scope.

{YBBS}Sage · Post by **{YBBS}Sage** » 2006-02-07 19:34

Koolchamp wrote:The SVD is not as powerful but you is is semi-automatic so you can get off alot of shots quickly.

Are you talking in PRMM, or IRL? IRL, the SVD is about as powerful, if not just a bit more so, than the M24. It fires the old 7.62x54R ammo that has similar, perhaps slightly higher, muzzle force to the 7.62x51 NATO used in the M24. Source.

I just read PAAS' post... You beat me to it.

There IS a rifle in the US arsenal that fits the SDM criteria best: The SPR. I know they're seeing real-world use, too. I don't know what the middle-east armies have that's similar, if anything. I DO know that the "sniper rifle" that's given to the Chinese in BF2 is actually supposed to be a squad marksman rifle. Source. Just like the American SPR, it's even specified to fire a different version of the standard rifleman round, with the change of a heavier bullet.

My opinion is this: you could leave the SVD alone except for correcting the damage, you can re-do the M24 and make it into an SPR, (don't know how hard that'd be... give it damage that's just slightly better than the M16A2... model could even be based on the A2..), and then raise the damage to somewhere between the SPR and SVD on the Type 88, I think it'd work. I know, sounds unbalanced, but the SVD and 88 have 10 round magazines vs the SPR's 30, offsetting their higher damage somewhat. The SPR would have quite a bit less recoil than the SVD, meaning more shots on target, more accurately, in a rapid-fire situation. And the Chinese 5.8 ammo is supposed to be slightly superior to the US 5.56, the 88 only uses a 10-round mag anyway, so it should get a bit better damage than the SPR for some balance... but not as good as the SVD, since recoil wouldn't be nearly as bad.

Then, get rid of the Ghillie suits. I'd think about using the assault models for these guys... including the body armor.

Stu007 · Post by **Stu007** » 2006-02-07 19:42

sniper definately needs to be brought back up to par.

I mean for god sake, I have a guy fill my screen in my scope, I emptied my M24 and not one shot hit him. And then a guy creeped up behind me and knifed me.

yay.

but please, sort out the m24, i beg you.

{YBBS}Sage · Post by **{YBBS}Sage** » 2006-02-07 20:17

Nah, I still say ditch the M24 in favor of the SPR.

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2006-02-07 20:46

I really like the idea of a marksmen kit for a squad over the whole sniper concept.

Snipers tend to be stratigically placed in situation or sent on specific objectives on their own, with a spotter.

To encourage teamplay and to make better use of the battlefield environment I think a marksmen would make more sense.

Besides, do you see any military squad photos with one guy all covered up in a ghillie suit, nope don't think so. (I haven't seen any)

Post by **Fullforce** » 2006-02-07 20:51

What kind of equipment would a marksman have?

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2006-02-07 20:55

Perhaps the M14 would do.

There was a thread about this a little while ago and I can't seem to find it right now.

Trying searching for marksmen under the search button. I know they had pictures of it too.

(edit)

Found it: http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread. ... t=marksmen

{YBBS}Sage · Post by **{YBBS}Sage** » 2006-02-08 00:43

I think the current issue for a squad marksman (USA at least..) is the SPR. I've seen some photos from Iraq showing guys carrying SPRs. I'd think the loadout would be similar to an assault class for game purposes(minus the GL..) Maybe give them a higher mag count?

I'm not sure what a SDM carries in the field.. I'm just speculating.

Hmm... This squad marksman might be easier to do than everybody thought. You could use "West-Coast SAM-Rs." Since the team is USMC, it's not an SPR, it's apparently a SAM-R...

Squad Advanced Marksmen of I MEF, which is based on the West Coast, made do with M16A4s with KAC M5 RAS forearms and TA31F ACOGs. They were nicknamed "West Coast SAM-Rs" though they are simply M16A4s with optics and bipods, and not an 'accurized' platform like the SAM-R used by the Marines of II MEF

Source.

{YBBS}Sage · Post by **{YBBS}Sage** » 2006-02-08 07:15

A few months ago I saw a pic of US troops escorting some detainees in Iraq, and 3 out of 4 were carrying the SAM-R/SPR/whatever you want to call an M16 flat-top with an extra-long barrel and scope...

But, for ease of modding, the West Coast SAM-R would probably be the best choice (and damn cool.)

SufF3R · Post by **SufF3R** » 2006-02-08 08:11

The M24 is way useless right now. I remember once this guy was around 10 meters away from me in game and I shot him right in the head. He was standing still and I was proning and the bullet didn't even touch him.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-08 14:07

The M24 is way useless right now. I remember once this guy was around 10 meters away from me in game and I shot him right in the head. He was standing still and I was proning and the bullet didn't even touch him.

That's why take knife/pistol... u're sniper that doesn't believe own gun ;]
Eh... i had same situation few times.... now i pick SpecOps... less problems with accuracy...

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-02-08 14:20

Rifleman wrote: Eh... i had same situation few times.... now i pick SpecOps... less problems with accuracy...

...and still minimal helpfulness to the team!

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-08 15:50

It is very helpfull

U can snipe guys on middle range when ur team flanks enemy...
And u can put C4 in gates/doorways when takeing flag... enemy is comeing to prevent and BOOOOM! ;]
And when playing MERC it is the only weapon (besides of SVD) i can this something... i can't shoot from mg and AK sucks terribly opposing to m16... ;]

SufF3R · Post by **SufF3R** » 2006-02-08 16:33

I just realized that SpecOps is AMAZING in this game. It's so perfect for shooting people. The whole Red Dot scope works so well in this mod. It's so much easier to see stuff and you can keep your Iron Site on and still be able to see whats clearly happening.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-08 21:03

I just realized that SpecOps is AMAZING in this game. It's so perfect for shooting people. The whole Red Dot scope works so well in this mod. It's so much easier to see stuff and you can keep your Iron Site on and still be able to see whats clearly happening.

That's right ;]
On RLDZ server i had 19 killis in a row with this weapon....
No camping - before u ask...
U have zoom and still see a lot of battlefield as SufF3R said..

angus · Post by **angus** » 2006-02-08 21:20

Could the answer to the sniper rifles be to scale the velocity down to give more drop at range? And technically in game how it the rifle zeroed? Do bullets have any upward vector ingame or do they come straight out?
Using the ballistics of M118LR ammo, zeroed at 100yds has ~16 inches of drop at 300 yards. I know a sniper wouldn't have a 100yd zero set IRL, but the M24 doesn't seem to drop enough.
With the view distances limited, I would like to see more drop added to make up for it.

Suggestion from dreamland:
Just for kicks, once the trajectory and scope magnification are decided upon, how about a real calibrated mil-dot reticle? Maybe to help rangefinding which would go well with a rainbow trajectory.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-02-08 21:47

Yes. So far as I understand, it is possible to make bullet drop for small arms as well as bullet drag. The problem lies in determining what the game's units of measurement are ( Velocity: 3000 means WHAT in this game? Feet, meters, some goofy game-logic number? ) and scaling that to the real-world specs. If its all in meters or feet, this is pretty easy to do. Also the factory MOA could be tied into the minimum deviation for the rifle and the weapon's total weight figured as the deviation when turning/moving, and accuracy for light weapons mostly determined by how long you held the ironsights on a target before firing, and how you compensate for recoil.

The problem with bullet drop is that it makes every bullet an object calculated for gravity physics, something of a computational pain in the ***. You saw tank shells drop in Vanilla because there'd never be more than two or three in the air at once. Likewise I feel the sniper rifles could have bullet drop incorporated because of the low volume of fire. If every SAW burst had to be calcuated, however, we'd see some ugly CPU-based lag on the maps.

Or so I speculate.

Quaoar · Post by **Quaoar** » 2006-02-11 10:06

Just put a limit on how many can be sniper/support class.
If you call your project "Project Reality", and then proceed to make a -really- bad implementation of the sniper rifle, you miss your target.
Don't make unrealistic bullet drop or add any other artificial features to the sniper class.

An M-24 should hit dead on -every- singel time at ranges 300-600 meters.

Don't add any "wobbling" to the scope, if you don't add "wobbling" to the other weapons either. The M-24 is not that heavy.
Also, adding disturbance from breating is not really sign of reality. Maybe shooting at targets at extreme ranges could be affected, but any disturbance which results in anything more than a tiny crosshair movement is not "real" either.

"Project Reality"

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-02-11 10:15

I think it is fine the way it is now in game. It forces a marksman to take his time and plan his shots, just as it should be.