Realistic ballistics & zeroing rifles

[RCMoonPie]

You don't aim with the barrel....you aim with the sights.

[KP]

MoonPie:



The bullet will always drop when fired straight. Gravity doesn't temporarily stop working on it. Zeroing a weapon means moving the sight relative to the barrel, so that when the sight is pointing at the target, the barrel isn't necessarily doing so. The round will be fired upwards, and then it'll drop into the zero point (and continue dropping after it).

And AFAIK, zeroing sights the way you suggest - by changing elevation "in the field" - isn't possible in BF2. So the people doing the work here have to use what factors they can change in BF2 to simulate proper zeroing.

[RCMoonPie]

The bullet will always drop when fired straight. Gravity doesn't temporarily stop working on it. Zeroing a weapon means moving the sight relative to the barrel, so that when the sight is pointing at the target, the barrel isn't necessarily doing so. The round will be fired upwards, and then it'll drop into the zero point (and continue dropping after it).

You obviously didnt read my previous post! Try reading the entire thread next time before wasting space for everyone in the thread with your unwarranted pics.
Battlesight zero was already described by me just 4 or 5 posts previous to this one.
Nice attempt KP.

fail

[KP]

You obviously didnt read my previous post! Try reading the entire thread next time before wasting space for everyone in the thread with your unwarranted pics.
Battlesight zero was already described by me just 4 or 5 posts previous to this one.
Nice attempt KP.

fail

What part of the post should I read again?

This:

The round will travel when fired in a straight and flat trajectory (under ideal conditions) until velocity is lost,
then it will begin to drop.

If "ideal conditions" means "in space", yes, it will travel straight. If, however, there is gravity involved, it will start dropping as soon as it leaves the barrel. Laws of physics.

Or this?

When properly sighted and zeroed....the round goes where the sights are looking....not where the barrel is pointing.

The round will always go where the barrel is pointing. You adjust the sight to control or compensate for this.

And yes, I see what you mean. And it would be good if we could zero the rifles as we go. But we can't. So we have to make do with what can be done in BF2.

Oh, and sorry about the pic. I just felt I had to use it sometime.

[RCMoonPie]

If "ideal conditions" means a vacuum, yes, it will travel straight. If, however, there is gravity involved, it will start dropping as soon as it leaves the barrel. Laws of physics.

No....ideal conditions means no heat waves, rain, wind, etc.
When the velocity/speed of the round decreases...only then does gravity begin to pull. You are right...I cant remember the exact equation but physics is obviously involved...the speed of the bullet at the time of firing is far greater than the force of gravty by x amount, as the speed decreases the forces becoming equal causing the round to be effected by gravity. We are saying the same thing. I am in agreement with you.

Or this?

The round will always go where the barrel is pointing. You adjust the sight to control or compensate for this.

Once again....we are in agreement.
I understand what you are trying to say....but my point is you aim the sights, not the barrel.
Take for instance the firing of a M203. I need to aim the sights directly on a target that is maybe just 150 feet away....but in actuality the barrel is almost 45 degrees pointing up in the air.
Had I aimed the actual barrel of the 203 at the target...my round would fall horribly short.

To refer back to the previous statement, This is due also to the large size and weight of the round, and its loss of velocity which no longer has the force to push the round down range, so gravity's constant force begins to be greater than that of the speed of the round.

[nedlands1]

No....ideal conditions means no heat waves, rain, wind, etc.
When the velocity/speed of the round decreases...only then does gravity begin to pull. You are right...I cant remember the exact equation but physics is obviously involved...the speed of the bullet at the time of firing is far greater than the force of gravty by x amount, as the speed decreases the forces becoming equal causing the round to be effected by gravity. We are saying the same thing. I am in agreement with you.

Gravity pulls all the time. The round is always effected by gravity... If you fire a round horizontally and drop one from the same height, the rounds will hit the ground at the same instant. With slow moving round, gravity has more time to act upon it, pulling it down far more then a fast moving round. The same thing applies with wind from the side. You need to compensate for wind far more with a slow moving frisbee then a speeding bullet.

EDIT: Speed is not synonymous with force, some would say like you and being a physicist.

EDIT: For those wondering what happens with the zeroing method that zangoo and I are using, imagine Jonny's diagram with the red sight line where is barrel is and the blue projectile path below the red sight line. See why it isn't ideal?

[nedlands1]

Jonny's next diagram shows BF2's current system. If he moved the blue line down and tilted it up a bit, it would be like zangoo's and my method.

EDIT: "up" is ambiguous what I mean is anti-clockwise.

[nedlands1]

Nope, the red line is moved up and the blue line rotated anti clockwise about the end of the barrel in the new method, to give the same effect as you get in real life or at least the best that the engine can do (which is actually pretty damn close).

Jonny the sights are located within the barrel. The sights cannot be moved and orientated with that code. It is the barrel that must go (down and tilted upwards)!

[nedlands1]

Really? The sight model is actually in the barrel? I thought it used the actual sight model, not the barrel, and that the the bullets are fired from the centre of the sight model in game.

I'm very sure. I found out the unfortunate side effect of moving the barrel down relative to the sights by 2.5 inches (ACOG <--> barrel distance) when I did my initial testing. The rounds would land significantly lower than where the model pointed.

[KP]

AFAIK, yeah, the sight and barrel in BF2 are the same - that is, the sight is "inside" the barrel.

[nedlands1]

Well thats strange, I thought it was the other way around.

One would think. *Insert derogatory EA comment here*

[horror]

i prefer real ballistical bullet drop instead of this annoying deviation system at the moment.

[zangoo]

if the bullet comes out of the center of the gun model the bullet hole is alot lower then where you are aiming. right now ObjectTemplate.fire.fireInCameraDof 1 makes the bullet come out of the center of your screen, so if you wanted to zero a gun you would have to change the sight picture cus if you angle the scope down then the bullet will also be angled down making it pointless. also horror the deviation system is not ment to try and zero the guns. if we make the bullet come out of the model then an animation would change the spot that the bullet would hit instead of just where the sights are on you screen.

[gazzthompson]

i prefer real ballistical bullet drop instead of this annoying deviation system at the moment.

2 different things though

[zangoo]

is it possible to change values in the tweak files in game using python, cus if this is possible we could make it so a sniper has s spotter and the spotter would use the soflam to get the distance tell the sniper and the sniper would be able to press say 0 then the snipers gun would be zeroed at 100m, if the sniper pushed 0 again the gun would be zeroed at 200m , ect and it would tell you the range that the gun is zeroed, in the same area that tells you how many mags you have left.