High flying choppers

[ragchan]

I personally think the tatic of flying the chopper high is stupid. In real life a pilot wouldnt have the luxury do to enemy AA and enemy fast movers. When I hear people say, "I'll fly low when choppers are more realistic". It makes me angry because they don't understand the ineffectiveness of choppers in a conventional war.

The Helicopter's Grim Future in Modern Combat

The fact is, the battlefield is dangerous. Especially for choppers and even more so in desert environments. Just think about it, these extremely advanced choppers are being shot down now, by small arms and rpg fire from insurgents.

I suggest gameplay changes for the choppers, I don't like the way they're being used now and it doesn't really promote teamwork. I think the choppers should use the only advantage they got, ground cover. Maybe make the AA range longer to flush the choppers out of their perch high in the sky.

I think the choppers should be used more like CAS jets, were theres a target that needs to be hit, chopper comes in quick, hits it, drops flares and leaves. This would promote alot of teamwork in my opinion. The chopper would rely alot on intel from troops on ground.

Let's face it, in a conventional war, the use of attack choppers is being questioned. And im not sure of its just me, but I dont like the way theyre being used right now in PR.

[arjan]

Agree.

[Darkpowder]

The high flying "floater" or "hover and pick off armour" actions of choppers in kashan and other maps is primarily because.
1 - there is no recon performed by low value assets before the armour rolls in
2 - the armour rolls in without decent AAA cover
3 - when AAA cover is available it doesn't watch its defined sector to watch - lucky if it is watching the sky most of the time.
4 - The choppers fly high to avoid non AAA ground fire, as they are currently doing in for example afghanistan where there is little to no guided or highly effective AAA.

no well deployed or guided, or coordinated AAA with no radar = sounds like the average PR game.

5 - Radar will greatly improve matters if they are permanent fixtures around airbases, personally if the radar "unit" is active it could light up any airborne asset (no problem with this) or within an appropriately scaled distance.

Good players -DO- play the attack heli's properly - i.e. bond/spaz, they retreat to pre-arranged safe areas, pop up and kill on direction from ground and command.

[Alex6714]

Until the hardcodedness of players are undone, and chopper given their equal power to match that of the ground forces I will prefer flying high.

I will fly my chopper however I think it is going to last the longest. As you say, low is going to get you hot up by ground fire.

I can get a manpad and basically guarantee a kill, but it does require teamwork on the ground.

AA needs to work with tanks and infantry as much as a chopper does.

Right now it is like darkpowder says. AA lonewolfs, armour leaves with no AA cover...

But the main thing here is the stabilization, which isn´t possible as far as I know (not in a way that would properly work).

In PR you need to hover absolutely still to fire, you can´t fire whilst moving or at least only at the right angle. So you become 10 times more vunerable than you should. If the choppers had stabilization then flying low would work well.

In the end I can´t decide, but I really hope that choppers are somewhat useful on public servers.

[ragchan]

It i understand what you guys are saying but it is possible to engage while moving. I have done it in game on tg server. We would patrol paths to find targets, spot them leave then come back down and hit with hellfire while going full speed. Or do same with other peoples spots.

Even with AA cover, its still very hard to hit choppers as it is now. Although many Pr pilots would disagree, I think AA is very underpowered. Yesterday a mig was trying to kill me, i was in a bradely. I watched as my missles exploded near or complelety missed. At some points I was hitting him with my main gun, but my missles were useless.

And what you said Alex "until choppers are given equal power to ground forces" That just doesn't work. If they were equal the choppers wouldn't even be able to take off before getting shot down. And im sorry to say, but if you read article I posted, you would see that flying low is simulating what it would be like for a chopper in rl as it currently stands in PR.

[M_Striker]

It i understand what you guys are saying but it is possible to engage while moving. I have done it in game on tg server. We would patrol paths to find targets, spot them leave then come back down and hit with hellfire while going full speed. Or do same with other peoples spots.

Even with AA cover, its still very hard to hit choppers as it is now. Although many Pr pilots would disagree, I think AA is very underpowered. Yesterday a mig was trying to kill me, i was in a bradely. I watched as my missles exploded near or complelety missed. At some points I was hitting him with my main gun, but my missles were useless.

And what you said Alex "until choppers are given equal power to ground forces" That just doesn't work. If they were equal the choppers wouldn't even be able to take off before getting shot down. And im sorry to say, but if you read article I posted, you would see that flying low is simulating what it would be like for a chopper in rl as it currently stands in PR.

Ur just unlucky ... I'm still having a hard time understanding what you're getting at here. You just want the AA to be stronger? IMO, I think they are plenty strong as it is. I get shot down so many times in choppers whether it's from AA, jets, or other choppers. (NOT to say I suck at flying ) It's also extremely easy to hit choppers with the AA guns...

Edit: In defense against your example, I will provide one of my own. The other day I was in a frogfoot, and I sweep down and reduce an AA vehicle to it's "Smoking" stage. As i regain altitude i check my six and i see the AA swivel around and fire one missile at me.. one.. I drop 1 or 2 flares, but he blew me up. I believe AA is good how it is if not overpowered...

[Alex6714]

I have no problem with the AA at all, my missiles hit the majority of the time.

I know you hate flying high, but I hate bunny hoppping and prone diving...

In real life, that chopper takes out the tank from out of the tanks "range" or even knows its there, and all that basically without infantry support. Of course, the AA would likely get the chopper, but the tank would have no chance. However in PR at the moment, the tank has a greater chance due to the accurate gun, lack of movement and easy aiming.

It i understand what you guys are saying but it is possible to engage while moving. I have done it in game on tg server. We would patrol paths to find targets, spot them leave then come back down and hit with hellfire while going full speed. Or do same with other peoples spots.

Here is a question. Try hitting that tank at a 45º angle or more at full speed? No, you have to be flying at the tank....

[Hotrod525]

Real Attack Helicopter have alot of support, UAV,SatDataLink,Radar,FLIR,Coordinated troops on grounds.. all of that dosent exist in P.R. Keep this in mind please.

An APACHE gunship can attack any target 7 miles away,impossible to set that scale on P.R., so people fly high.And even then, we can only fly high on Kashan Desert... on all other map the maximum you can go its like 200, more than that and you only see fog.

[Sir.Saul]

On another thread simular to this. (Think it was about the Apache longbow system - or radar dome if you like) R-DEV Cas said something about in the next patch you would use the attack chopper in another way, not sure something likewise.
Anyway wait for the patch then see what has changed

Argh god I can't wait for the patch, why are they stalling?

[Mora]

Check my guide under my sig.

[Hotrod525]

Oh and before a forgot, the crucial thing they have is FIRE & FORGET Anti Tank Missile

[ragchan]

Alex6714;733343']I have no problem with the AA at all, my missiles hit the majority of the time.

I know you hate flying high, but I hate bunny hoppping and prone diving...

In real life, that chopper takes out the tank from out of the tanks "range" or even knows its there, and all that basically without infantry support. Of course, the AA would likely get the chopper, but the tank would have no chance. However in PR at the moment, the tank has a greater chance due to the accurate gun, lack of movement and easy aiming.



Here is a question. Try hitting that tank at a 45º angle or more at full speed? No, you have to be flying at the tank....

Well in real life it would be even easier for the tank to hit the chopper. Stabilization, tracking systems. I guess this all stems from problems when your trying to create a realistic game in a limited engine. But I would still like to see the choppers flying low.

Also if your dropping 2 flares after a run, its not gonna be hard to shoot you down. But when a chopper or jet is dropping 30, then it becomes almost impossible. Well thats what it seems to be for me

Ill make a video

[Colt556]

Flying low in an attack heli is suicide. I'm not saying this from a pilots perspective, but from a ground pounder perspective. Whenever I'm in a tank, I just LOVE seeing that blackhawk flying low to the ground, tyring to use the mountains as cover. BAM, one shell and I get several kills. Attack heli's rarely fly low, and because of that they rarely get shot down. I've only ever shot down attack heli's a couple times, and that was more luck at the time then anything else.

Never seen a manpad shoot one down, and AAV's aren't used enough to shoot them down. So the most used ground equipment can't get them. Before you'll ever see heli's flying low, you have to balance out ground v air. Tanks shouldn't be able to snipe down Heli's, and that's probably the biggest problem heli's face. I know that's what kills me most of the time I fly.

[ragchan]

Flying low means that 99% of the time an Enemy tank will shoot you out of the sky.

Now how is that realistic.

Until you somehow remove the fog from the attack helicopters so they can rape you from 2km away nothing should change.

What do you mean by realistic? Are you asking if its realistic for a tank to hit a chopper, then the answer is yes.

Also, it is possible to fly low, thats how i fly, i got 40 kills on qinling, we got shot down twice, and lag killed us once. But guess what that realistic. Choppers arnt god weapons in a conventional war. Actully theyre probably last place you want to be.

[CAS_117]

Look, unless SAMs get a range extension, and jets are on the same map as choppers, there isn't that big a reason to fly low. Choppers are supposed to have air cover anyways...

[ballard_44]

The problem is there is no real solution for this problem.
The game engine's limitations won't allow realistic situations.

Heli's flying high in PR to kill anything is completely unrealistic.
Someone please show me numerous instancies(sp) where attack helis fly at a high altitude to get kills in RL.
Truth is, helis attempting to fly high in RL get f*cked.

Tanks killing low flying helis with sabot/HEAT rounds is completely unrealistic.
A tanks role is not to kill helis.
Again, show me numerous situations where tanks get heli kills with sabot/HEAT rounds (or any other weapon in it's arsenal)?

If PR was completely realistic, as soon as AHE's took off, enemy armor would be in deep shit.

The opposite could be said for AAV.
If PR was 100% realistic, AAV would immediately pick up on enemy AHEs from the start.

I agree with the OP that the way AHEs attack now is complete BS, but how to balance the 2 is????

[Flanker15]

The problem is there is no real solution for this problem.
The game engine's limitations won't allow realistic situations.

Heli's flying high in PR to kill anything is completely unrealistic.
Someone please show me numerous instancies(sp) where attack helis fly at a high altitude to get kills in RL.
Truth is, helis attempting to fly high in RL get f*cked.

Tanks killing low flying helis with sabot/HEAT rounds is completely unrealistic.
A tanks role is not to kill helis.
Again, show me numerous situations where tanks get heli kills with sabot/HEAT rounds (or any other weapon in it's arsenal)?

If PR was completely realistic, as soon as AHE's took off, enemy armor would be in deep shit.

The opposite could be said for AAV.
If PR was 100% realistic, AAV would immediately pick up on enemy AHEs from the start.

I agree with the OP that the way AHEs attack now is complete BS, but how to balance the 2 is????

First paragraph: That's totally dependent on the situation, if there are SAMs or planes in the area a helicopter would fly low. If there are none then it is free to fly high to avoid AA fire and RPGs.

Second paragraph: Tanks are very dangerous to low flying and unaware helicopters, there gun can bring down a hovering or non-maneuvering helicopter in seconds at over 6kms. Russian tanks are armed with ATGM aswell which have been proven deadly against helicopters since they can't maneuver out of the way or decoy them. US was developing a special anti-helicopter shell for their tanks but it was scrapped.

[Alex6714]

Second paragraph: Tanks are very dangerous to low flying and unaware helicopters, there gun can bring down a hovering or non-maneuvering helicopter in seconds at over 6kms. Russian tanks are armed with ATGM aswell which have been proven deadly against helicopters since they can't maneuver out of the way or decoy them. US was developing a special anti-helicopter shell for their tanks but it was scrapped.

This is sort of depicted in PR. Tanks can easily take down helicopters at full view distance, even when they are moving fast.

However, helicopters in PR lack their ability to fire and forget hellfires and lack gunner stabilization.

[Other Gamer]

i think its a valid tactic as at that hieght unless the chopper pilot can stabolize the chopper the gunner cant shoot straight either