Ballistics or Tracers?

[Sadist_Cain]

What about making the "color" just invisible? would that be possible? Would probably pretty much fix it, wouldnt it?

Normal tracer, invisible tracer, invisible tracer, invisible tracer, normal tracer, invisible tracer etc

thatd be cool. But somehow I get the jist that you cant tweak individual bullets like that for some reason

Please god dont let us have all tracers no matter how tiny just think of all the rogue rounds you hear that ping around at your feet and then imagine every single shot fired is lit up in a 64 player game...

you wont be sure whether to return fire or don a catsuit and do some sexual elaborate maneuver to duck and dodge the laser beams to steal the golden egg!

Such a little amount of drop when tracers do have "a slight" drop irl wont be too bad a thing methinks
though I do believe a lotta people are having a fearful "omg but where are my bullets going to go " moments it shouldnt be that big a deal if you're aiming at your target you dont need to know every rounds exact trajectory

A dash of fear is always good

[zangoo]

Well there is the effect that allows you to see where your rounds are impacting so people should be able to learn after a while of playing, But even people that have been playing project reality for a very long time are still join to have to take some time to adjust to the ballistics and this could just be part of the learning.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I think that effect stops showing at longer distances

[Spec]

That sounds good. Though, the invisible tracer idea doesnt work i asume?

[Sadist_Cain]

Id say the concern would be the view from 3rd person with a lot of rounds flying around (if you didnt guess that already )

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Sounds like it could be the best solution, so long as its not close to this:

YouTube - Kids demolish neighborhood with Star Wars laser FX battle

[isooth]

I voted for keep the bug, but after thinking, this makes tracers completely pointless...

See, they're there to direct fire, so people see what you are shooting at, but... if they go somewhere else they just make things worse, people will be aiming at the wrong spots for suppressing fire etc.

[KP]

As long as the difference is as small as it is, it doesn't really prevent the effective use of tracers. And, as somebody said, they probably behave somewhat differently from non-tracer rounds IRL. I say ballistics + tracer bug = all right. Then you could hopefully sort the tracer bug out later.

[Masaq]

Hrmm, not sure that 100m is sufficient. How about 1/2 or 3/5 size? I mean, if rifles are to be zereod at 300m you're effectively saying that the weapon platform should be effective at that range - which to my mind, would indicate that the tracers should be at least slightly visible at that range.

Also, tanks and APCs engage at much longer ranges - could they utilize larger tracers so that they can still gun accurately out to 500m or so? Not Warrior-X-Wing style, just visible.

[zangoo]

Well tracers should be seen out to about 600m+ or there is no reason to have them. Also after doing some tests i really think it would be better to do the all or nothing way, I think i am going to orgranize a small test around 8 people to see how this would look.


Btw.. we can get rid of this bug if someone can get 2 firearms to shoot from the same object with the same input.

[Spec]

I'd have to play the all or nothing thing and the keep the bug thing to see whats really better at the end, but it sounds like keeping it is the best option, and so says the poll... (Not that that would matter)

How about some video material to see how bad it really is?

[zangoo]

I dont think video would really work as it would be low res and you wouldnt be able to see the tracers. But i will try to do something with battlerecorder to get some good clips to help people decied.

[Waaah_Wah]

Cant we instead see a vid of how much off the tracer bullet will be at 150 meters when the rifle is zeroed at 300?

[zangoo]

After testing with some people I really think keeping the tracer bug will screw people up very very bad, Sure 2m isnt much but when someone is prone and you are trying to hit them you just cant. I think it would be 1000x better to just use the all or nothing way with tweaked tracer size. I will post a video showing the diffrence soon.


Edit: Here is a Screen shot of a m16@300m




Edit Again: During testing saber_tooth_tiger was fliming and here is the footage showing the saw with everyround a tracer.

http://www.vimeo.com/1450529

[=Romagnolo=]

tracers in everyround, I didnt like =/

[Celestial1]

After testing with some people I really think keeping the tracer bug will screw people up very very bad, Sure 2m isnt much but when someone is prone and you are trying to hit them you just cant. I think it would be 1000x better to just use the all or nothing way with tweaked tracer size. I will post a video showing the diffrence soon.

If tracers are placed with 4 rounds between them, there will be a 1/5 chance that you'll have a tracer. So if you are unlucky enough to have fired exactly 4 bullets (or 4 from your last tracer), the first bullet you may fire upon a target could be a tracer, and then you'll have to readjust your aim for the second shot, which will hit dead on. The tracer will drop consideringly, often either not reaching a point that would be visible to the target, or would hit the target if standing/aimed properly. The first bullet will not be a tracer, but the last bullet will. If it is absolutely necessary that you hit the target in one bullet, then you will be best off to reload before firing.

Considering this should only apply to Standard and Automatic Rifles: Standard rifles will take a small hit due to the fact that a fifth of the bullets they fire will drop up to 2m at 300 meters (At which point they should aim up, and fire again, if it's a tracer round they fired first), and if they are delivering accurate fire. Automatic Rifles would be relatively unaffected, as they shouldn't be being used for accurate fire.

Sniper Rifles, Marksman Rifles, Sidearms, and assumingly Carbines shouldn't be carrying any tracer rounds. If carbines do, then the drop at the carbine's effective range should be small enough to negate when realizing the fact that the target would be very close in comparison to a Standard rifle's effective range.

Making all rounds tracer rounds for certain guns will result in the "starwars" effect, as well as making your machine gunner instantly pinpoint-visible for every shot he fires.


So yes, the tracer round will mess a lot of people up, at first. But then they should soon realize that if the tracer round is fired, they should readjust aim and fire before the target has a time to react, and when hitting the target is ABSOLUTELY required by the first shot with a standard rifle, and there will be times when you just have that feeling, that you can reload and be sure that your magazine's first bullet will hit where you aim.

There will be ways to adjust to accomodate for the tracer's drop; however, there is nothing wrong with making players use more than one bullet in a standoff.

[Masaq]

I have a suggestion:


Play-test, in large numbers (30+ players on the server) each option. I don't mean a skrim between a few guys over local, I mean a dedicated server with enough players on to get a genuine feel for how each option would play out.