Spawn raping/support guns

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

Yeah it is very hard to work out who is red circle raping.

[Major Ursa Norte]

Keep in mind this is a "Reality Mod", reducing the accuracy of the automatic rifle would take away from the realism aspect of the game.

I suggest making sure support can only fire from the prone position, and cannot fire while they are transitioning from standing/crouching to prone.

Uhg! WTH? While the support weapon is BEST fired from the prone position, in no way should it be limited to ONLY firing from the prone position. That would be absurd on a whole new level. Prone fire gives you better accuracy than crouching and crouching yields better accuracy than standing and standing still gives better accuracy than stafing while on the move. The support gun is built for volume fire. Your job as a support guy in a fiefight is to lay down suppressive fire, but this is not always possible from the prone position without exposing yourself to fire. Crouching behind objects while firing is legitimate. Standing while shooting is legitimate. Shooting while moving across an open area is VERY legitimate. Any bullets going down range will help keep the enemy's head down and give you a better chance of moving from point a to point b during a firefight.

The recoil effect built into PR and the lack of crosshairs floating before you are more than adequate tools to dicourage offhand shooting of an automatic weapon. If you are getting owned too much by the support gun, quit standing still, use cover and look around before you go charging up the hill.

[AznLB]

Negative.

Right now the Automatic Rifle is being used as a fast-attack weapon, which is not its intended purpose. My suggestions are meant to fix that, and add to the realism of the game. Although I'm sure a SAW can be fired from a standing position, and possibly a QBZ-95 LMG, restricting support players to prone would force them to play their intended purpose, and make sure there isn't a team full of Automatic Rifleman, which is in no way realistic.

Right now a support gunner can fly through the air into the prone position while retaining perfect accuracy, and then walk away as if he didn't just land all 200lbs of himself and gear on his ribs.

In PR the outcome of the game is decided by how many Automatic Rifleman you have on your team, 90% of the time at least. This is not the way it should be.

[Major Ursa Norte]

Negative.

Right now the Automatic Rifle is being used as a fast-attack weapon, which is not its intended purpose. My suggestions are meant to fix that, and add to the realism of the game. Although I'm sure a SAW can be fired from a standing position, and possibly a QBZ-95 LMG, restricting support players to prone would force them to play their intended purpose, and make sure there isn't a team full of Automatic Rifleman, which is in no way realistic.

Right now a support gunner can fly through the air into the prone position while retaining perfect accuracy, and then walk away as if he didn't just land all 200lbs of himself and gear on his ribs.

In PR the outcome of the game is decided by how many Automatic Rifleman you have on your team, 90% of the time at least. This is not the way it should be.

Have you ever fired a SAW? or an old M60? I have and you can fire then from any position. You give up accuracy in some positions, but you can still lay down supressive fire. Infantrymen are taught to move from cover to cover. They are also taught to fire for effect WHILE moving in a tactical creep.

The issue of flying through the air while prone and placing 200 rounds on target is a flaw in the code that could be fixed far easier than writing new code to prohibit firing from any position other than prone.

Again, you distaste for support class seems to be personal. Since support is the most armored and therefore the SLOWEST man in the squad, I find you statement refering to him being a FAST ATTACK WEAPON quite amusing.

[Mechs]

Negative.

Right now the Automatic Rifle is being used as a fast-attack weapon, which is not its intended purpose. My suggestions are meant to fix that, and add to the realism of the game. Although I'm sure a SAW can be fired from a standing position, and possibly a QBZ-95 LMG, restricting support players to prone would force them to play their intended purpose, and make sure there isn't a team full of Automatic Rifleman, which is in no way realistic.

Right now a support gunner can fly through the air into the prone position while retaining perfect accuracy, and then walk away as if he didn't just land all 200lbs of himself and gear on his ribs.

In PR the outcome of the game is decided by how many Automatic Rifleman you have on your team, 90% of the time at least. This is not the way it should be.

Unless they figure out a way to support the weapon on a sandbag or on ledges...then I think it is best as it is. There have been too many times to count where I had to stand to fire the SAW or RPK becuase of objects in the way or because I had to duck behind cover to keep from getting my *** shot off. I believe the accuracy if fine on the LMGs (The Chinese one could use a little upgrade though).

And you think the diving problem is bad now with Support? If you nerf the LMGs to only firing from prone, it will get 100x worse then it already is.

Just my .02 cents

P.S. I play Assault most of the time and have no trouble against Support.

[six7]

if there waqs a way to "deploy" your weapon on small ledges then I would love to see it happen. Support should be able to fire in any position, but because of the bulk of the weapon, it should kick more when standing or crouched than when prone. It should take longer for you to bring your weapon from your hip to your shoulder. When diving to the ground, soldiers use the buttstock of their weapons to cusion their fall. It would be impossible to use your weapon during or shortly after a dive if you wanted to get out of the fight without fractured ribs.

[AznLB]

Have you ever fired a SAW? or an old M60?

No, but I have seen them being fired IRL. And yes, I know they can be fired from standing, hence why I said they could in my post (guess you ignored that). However, to promote better teamwork and less "whoring", some sacrafices have to be made.

I have nothing "personal" against the Automatic Rifle, it's just game, I don't take anything personal over the intrawebz. Also, if you evere even read my posts, you'd know that I'm heavily against making any of the support weapons less powerful/accurate, so I'm not "anti-support". I just think a definite change needs to be made, whether it's class limiting (A better solution than forcing players to prone, but AFAIK not possible with the BF2 engine), or a force-prone solution.

The support issuie is a major one, and isn't something that can be ignored, right now it's rediculously powerful. I like your idea of making the prone slower, and think this would be perfect, but it isn't something that's "minor". It's something the DEVs need to get on, not ignore or neglect for "minor tweaks".

Chill out, you seem to like support weapons a bit too much.

[Major Ursa Norte]

if there waqs a way to "deploy" your weapon on small ledges then I would love to see it happen. Support should be able to fire in any position, but because of the bulk of the weapon, it should kick more when standing or crouched than when prone. It should take longer for you to bring your weapon from your hip to your shoulder. When diving to the ground, soldiers use the buttstock of their weapons to cusion their fall. It would be impossible to use your weapon during or shortly after a dive if you wanted to get out of the fight without fractured ribs.

I agree. If you were ever in the US Mil. then you most likely were taught to repeat this saying while moving from cover to cover.."I'm up, I'm down, I'm dead" if you were NOT on the ground when you said "I'm Dead" then most likely you would be in actual combat. With a full ruck out, even assault/infantrymen had to use the buttstock of their rifle to help break their fall lest they shatter a knee cap or knock their own breath right out of their lungs. Insta prone was a horrible thing to have coded into BF2 and until better code can be written or current code changed, this is also a flaw PR has to live with. I would much rather see the developers time spent doing tweaks instead of major code creation on something as small as this issue with the support class.
Like I stated before, support is SLOW. Snipe them, nade them, outflank them. They are not invincible. And if a squad is dumb enough to suit up as all support, then you should be able to defeat them without too much trouble with controled fire from concealed positions on their flank and with hand grenades/M203 launched grenades. Use smoke to conceal your movement and keep your profile low. All just plain straight forward basic infantry tactics.

[Major Ursa Norte]

No, but I have seen them being fired IRL. And yes, I know they can be fired from standing, hence why I said they could in my post (guess you ignored that). However, to promote better teamwork and less "whoring", some sacrafices have to be made.

I have nothing "personal" against the Automatic Rifle, it's just game, I don't take anything personal over the intrawebz. Also, if you evere even read my posts, you'd know that I'm heavily against making any of the support weapons less powerful/accurate, so I'm not "anti-support". I just think a definite change needs to be made, whether it's class limiting (A better solution than forcing players to prone, but AFAIK not possible with the BF2 engine), or a force-prone solution.

Chill out, you seem to like support weapons a bit too much.

AznLB, I did read your post and the wording seemed a tad confusing. Especially when you threw in the "fire in prone only" bit. So forgive the misread. Giving players a choice in any game will result in whoring, regardless of what that choice is. About the simplest solution would be to do away with the classes all together and create drop kits for each specialty. Limit the kits and then you limit whoring. That way everyone can spawn as a basic infantryman and still have a good kit to play. You would not wind up playing a kit you did not like or do not know how to play well just to be in "Alpha Squad".

Truth be told, Spec Ops is my personal favorite. I am learning to play support because I think that it is one of the most team oriented classes other than the medic.

[[T]Terranova7]

The support class is overpowered, and saying "just deal with it" is just ignoring the issue that it is unbalanced. Snipe them? They can snipe you with those guns. IMO they need to be nerfed or limited on the battlefield. To get rid of insta-prone I suggested having the player not cable of shooting any rifle for about 3 seconds going from prone standing to prone; simulating the fact that the soldier must adjust to the position. Perhaps with crouching to prone, two seconds. A crouch toggle helps in this instance as well if possible.

If possible I would also like specific kits to only in conjuction with squads. Like America's Army, every soldier would only be capable of spawning with an assault kit. Ranging from a basic rifleman, grenaider and a sharpshooter type kit (an acog type scope mounted on the weapon) as well as the engy class. This would work with the proposed "alternate kit selection" idea that flies around alot on these forums. Only in a squad though can certain kits become available, such as the medic, support, sniper, and anti-tank kits.

Then again if not possible we could try working with the "pick-up kit" idea as well.

[Major Ursa Norte]

I will have to take your word on the support class being overpowered Terra. Like I said before I am still learning to play this kit. I have yet to be able to "snipe" anyone with the support weapon, but I am sure that has a lot to do with my skill level with that weapon.

In the end, all of this may just be water off of a duck's back anyway. When .3 comes out or maybe even version 1.0, we will finally know the fate of all of our concerns. Those that like the changes will stay and those that don't will go.

[Katarn]

I always thought the support weapons were far too innacurate. At more than 200m, they're useless, for example on Zatar Wetlands (only good for suppressing fire, cause the probability of the spread actually hitting them, even on the first shot, is very low)

[six7]

Katarn']I always thought the support weapons were far too innacurate. At more than 200m, they're useless, for example on Zatar Wetlands (only good for suppressing fire, cause the probability of the spread actually hitting them, even on the first shot, is very low)

Well said. The problem is not the accuracy, power, or the RoF, but the ability to deal death in mid-air.

[AznLB]

I agree.

I wouldn't mind having more accurate support guns, just fix the insta-prone thing.

[luizinhuu]

is it just ME, or the grenade-spamming of support class can get pretty annoying? i think that infinite ammo supply is way unreal.. a 'support' could carry 3 extra grens and 4 packages of ammo.. more than this, talking about real possibilities, could be extra-weight war-unhandly

infinite gren throwing sucks

[Skullening.Chris]

is it just ME, or the grenade-spamming of support class can get pretty annoying? i think that infinite ammo supply is way unreal.. a 'support' could carry 3 extra grens and 4 packages of ammo.. more than this, talking about real possibilities, could be extra-weight war-unhandly

infinite gren throwing sucks

Yeah, to me that's become more of an issue lately. People that get on rooftops and just spam nades down, people that spam nades over the dunes on Oasis, **** like that. You'll see two nades fly over, hear a voice go "Ammo here!" see two more nades, "Ammo here!", two more nades, "Get ammo here!" etc. Sad part is I see a lot of supposedly "respectable" players doing this sort of thing. Weak

[Katarn]

Fixed in .3 tbh.

[Skullening.Chris]

Katarn']Fixed in .3 tbh.

That makes the wait even harder ;_;

[Major Ursa Norte]

Katarn']Fixed in .3 tbh.

VERY NICE !! My faith in the developers has been upheld once again.

[.:iGi:.U.G.H.]

Katarn']Fixed in .3 tbh.