Why do you think civies are killed?

[ostupidman]

As anyone can tell from my previous posts I really don't like the civi/collaborator. However in the interest of seeing both sides of the argument I decided to play as a collaborator for a couple hours last night. I attempted to play as the collaborator is meant to be played. I stuck with my squad, rendered medical aid, used my grappling hook to allow access to building tops, tried not to be killed. I came to a couple conclusions pretty early in my play time. One is that people indeed either don't pay attention or don't care if they kill a civilian, I didn't even try to count the number of times I was killed by BLUFOR deliberately. Second was that the gameplay was just really not very rewarding, it's not wonder that people turn to getting purposely killed, or play another class. This is coming from a person who likes being a medic or engineer. I enjoy the support aspects of these classes, but when playing as a collaborator, it's boring and not at all as enjoyable as any other aspect of PR. Of course all the time I was running around with my different squads all I could think was that the BLUFOR had every right to shoot me as a combatant since I was fully involved in actions against them.

[crudge]

I must admit i have done my fair share of murder, but it is hard to try and restrain your self when a civ throws rocks at you then hides in the water, then....

Outcome A) If you wait for him to get out his mates come and kill you, then hump your corpse.
Outcome B) You turn around to cary on with the fighting, he comes out and starts throwing rocks again, then you bleed to death and mabye even have your corpse humped.
So i like to do...
outcome C) Blow his f***king brains out before him and his mates hump me

I am aware that this is slighty bad behaviour, but what am I to do in this situation that i have met many times.
I also find that some times it can be hard to tell from a distance espicaly when they have their shovals out (not sure if they still have em been away for a while so need to ctach up on stuff). Also when you turn a corner and there standing there I tend to shoot out of fear.
I have also encountered civs runing into land rovers...

[daranz]

As some pointed out the civies currently have an incentive to get killed so I think we need to increase their spawn time to make them want to stay alive.

What, to 10 minutes this time?

[Incomplete Spork]

I vote for giving them back the green shirt. If you kill them after that you are an A-hole who purposely kills them because you are a noob,or you have the I.Q. of a shovel.

[Solid Knight]

I vote for giving them back the green shirt. If you kill them after that you are an A-hole who purposely kills them because you are a noob,or you have the I.Q. of a shovel.

Or because you simply don't care.

[Ablack77]

What, to 10 minutes this time?

Got to admit I rarely play as civi anymore, purely because I don't enjoy waiting so long after I'm shot and killed
(which is what happens 90% of the time)

I also thoroughly don't enjoy waiting 5 minutes if i accidentally fall off a roof etc.

I'll usually go civi once in a round, get sick of waiting to respawn,
then change out of that class immediately.

I support green shirts (or something equally obvious),
shorter spawn times for civi's and much stronger penalties for shooting civi's.

[Incomplete Spork]

I just saw in the change compilation thing that civilians went back to the green shirt with red nikes. Now if a civi gets killed it was on purpose.

[Copper.8]

Most of the time, it's inexperience that causes civis to be shot at and killed. And the civis are much different to all other insurgents, no other insurgent carries a belt, they do not have a tea towel and do not have a backpack. The thing that most distinguishes insurgent from civilian is a belt, you see that, it's a civi.

Also, when your heart is racing, and you run into a civi when moving past a corner (it's rare in my case) you can't help to spray, this is what causes a small amount of FF deaths and you could say it has more potentional of killing civis.

[Sizum85]

green shirts have my vote too


YouTube - Dutch Apache track insurgents in A-stan: Dressed in a Burqa
This topic reminds me of this Astan film wich shows confirmed Taliban hiding amongst civilians(could happen in game) and the Dutch Apache who decides to hold fire.

[SHAz_181]

I think it's a combination of 1, 2 and 4, but mostly 4. You can tell by their posture that they're civ, pretty much, because they've not got one hand in front of the other as if they were holding a weapon.

[Arnoldio]

The respawn time punishment for blufor should get doubled for each civilian shot, starting with 10s added to ordinary respawn time you allready have, so for the next civi kill you get 40s plus the other time and so on... That would be punishment and excuse all in one.

EDIT: Or maybe adding a "zone" around every other insurgent class in wich civi can get killed, wich would simulate involving into a fight, if he is out of that zone you get the punishment as normal.

As for the civi kit, why was the respawn time so increased? I don't get it, i'd lower it to 10 seconds, wich would represent constant civilian actions in the city, not just 4 civies at a time in city of 5000.

[K3V1N=US=]

Well i believe its a.) because of the draw distance as i know my brothers Pc specs only allow him a limited draw distance meaning he can see that tehre is an enemy but not clearly what kind of enemy...

about teh holding fire i think the serious players will always confirm their target before engaging.

and what i noticed on some maps is that if the insurgent gameplay comes to a halt the coalition forces seem to be killing civies in order to end the round faster and many insurgents seem to play mor as a civ in order to be killed so the round ends faster... many players that are civies don't really know what teh civie kit can actually be used for if used practically..


so i say Civies FTW

[daranz]

and what i noticed on some maps is that if the insurgent gameplay comes to a halt the coalition forces seem to be killing civies in order to end the round faster and many insurgents seem to play mor as a civ in order to be killed so the round ends faster... many players that are civies don't really know what teh civie kit can actually be used for if used practically..

But... That only makes the round last LONGER. Less intel means the coalition forces get less cache markers meaning the round lasts even longer.

[Gunner4712]

I think they are shot for many reasons.

1- They are just plain obnoxious.
2- People are too trigger happy
3- Civies can make themselves look like insurgents by just holding binoculars/field dressing. The insurgent with the Molotov looks like the civilian with a turban.


What I really think should happen is that the spawn timer should be dropped a bit for killing one. Second, no kill penalty. I consider them hostile, they are essentially the spotter for the sniper. Just as dangerous, but they don't look it.

[Rudd]

civi should have the binos removed really, the insurgents all have them so they don't need it, should get a video camera instead

[badmojo420]

Why do civies look like civies? In iraq right now i'm sure you could stand two people next to each other and the only thing that differentiates between an insurgent and an unarmed collaborator is the gun the insurgent is holding. An insurgent isn't going to wear his bright red and white head towel so the coalition forces know HE is the one they should be killing. They're all going to dress the same, their weapons and actions are the only way to know they're insurgents.

I think the civie should get the exact same skin and model as the Ambusher. So when the coalition forces find an insurgent with a phone in his hand they don't know if he is a civie or insurgent. And either take the risk of approaching him to make an arrest, or firing warning shots, or even killing a civie because he was suspected to be an insurgent. Basically the only way to know that its a civie or insurgent would be if they had a weapon. Which is the whole advantage of an insurgency. It allows your forces to move around appearing to be innocent civilians, until they pull out AT grenades and throw them at a humvee. I know there is no way to tell if they are carrying a gun on their back, but the draw times in PR are long enough that you could waste any insurgent that tried to pull a weapon after they were targeted.

[McBumLuv]

Why do civies look like civies? In iraq right now i'm sure you could stand two people next to each other and the only thing that differentiates between an insurgent and an unarmed collaborator is the gun the insurgent is holding. An insurgent isn't going to wear his bright red and white head towel so the coalition forces know HE is the one they should be killing. They're all going to dress the same, their weapons and actions are the only way to know they're insurgents.

I think the civie should get the exact same skin and model as the Ambusher. So when the coalition forces find an insurgent with a phone in his hand they don't know if he is a civie or insurgent. And either take the risk of approaching him to make an arrest, or firing warning shots, or even killing a civie because he was suspected to be an insurgent. Basically the only way to know that its a civie or insurgent would be if they had a weapon. Which is the whole advantage of an insurgency. It allows your forces to move around appearing to be innocent civilians, until they pull out AT grenades and throw them at a humvee. I know there is no way to tell if they are carrying a gun on their back, but the draw times in PR are long enough that you could waste any insurgent that tried to pull a weapon after they were targeted.

All very good points. Don't engage unless they are a threat to you. This philosophy, along with the proposed changes for 0.85, will hopefully make the civi class not only bearable, but much more fun and useful than before.

[Pluizert]

Sometimes while playing Insurgency i wished there would be at least 10% civies of the players. Now the US/GB can just mowe down every enemy with their vehicles cause no-one is playing civie. Result is that the game is getting very unbalanced which already is unbalanced, but now they dont even have to identify before they fire.

[Armalite-556x45]

Collaborators in real life who call in positions for artillery are fair game in many instances. I kill civilians who are spotting.

Remember, insurgents are civilians too, some don't carry rifles.

[Incomplete Spork]

The only way to make sure you dont kill them imo is to use the toss command to toss the player 50 meters in the air after he kills one. I guarantee you people will start to identify after that.