Hardcore Clan Letter to the BF2:PR Community

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Coeman to make a statement. Will update when complete.

After discussing this, The admins in question, while attempting to get problem players a real reason to comply with server rules, asked for donations a as an option for an unbanning. This was their individual judgement, and not a policy as a whole of the clan. It was not considered an ethical issue, as the admin in question saw this as no different than other servers that charge for reserved slots, or have pay for admin privileges.

Again, Coeman, nor the majority of admin have used this, nor condoned this activity.

All ban appeals are public, and if requested, I will gladly post each and every one in our archives in this thread.

[wizzard_uk]

the argument here is about the hardcore server charging ppl to be unbanned yes i am a freind of ubernuka i have know him since my teens i also have had no problems whilst playing on the hardcore server yet i cannot condone the blatant disregard for EA EULA and being Guild master in another game i can understand the problems of running a clan and keeping its members in order but i would never charge or force ppl to pay for an unban cause to me thats extortion or blackmail which ever you choose it to be let the devs an the owners of the licence take this further as we as a community seem to be doing nothing but going around in circles flaming each other. this of course is my own personal view if i offend anybody then i appologise but to break the terms and agreement even unknowingly is not an excuse

[MacGyver_]

Oralis: Noted, with thanks.

I can accept the credibility of the quote now, but Wizzard popping in... I'm sorry, but true or not, it strikes me as a reasonable next step in a defamation campaign.

Uber, you've made a false account to further defame Hardcore here in another thread, now it would appear as though you've made two more. "Rebelpandacake" wouldn't allow their 15 year old son to play on =]H[= because of what you've seen in the ingame chat, and yet your in game name is 'takinapandashat', and this new account shares the same non existant location (wikkiwahwah) as the last fake account that was banned.. What a load of BS. I still do not completely oppose a player donating $5 to get their permanent ban revoked, but the sheer tenacity involved in coming here, making false accounts, slandering and defaming a great server and clan, is downright unacceptable.

Anyways, flame mod off. And now back on topic.
I recently had a look at the current EULA for Battelfield 2, and saw nothing relevant to this matter. I don't mean to undermine any R-DEV's (and i say this with respect), but could you point me in the direction of the terms that state publicly profting in this manner is illegal? Speaking out of pure individual curiosity by the way.

[MaSSive]

Coeman and admins! PLEASE this has gone too far, and all this is very offtopic and now we have flaming and accusing people around here. I suggest you open feedback and lock this.

[rebelpancake]

Uber, you've made a false account to further defame Hardcore here in another thread, now it would appear as though you've made two more. "Rebelpandacake" wouldn't allow their 15 year old son to play on =]H[= because of what you've seen in the ingame chat, and yet your in game name is 'takinapandashat', and this new account shares the same non existant location (wikkiwahwah)

blah blah and so on do u get it guys im being flammed by some guy ive never met either i dont know who uber is but if u attack random people with such vehemence you are out of ure mind

do u speak for hardcore server

yeah i played in PR yeah im good yeah i have enjoyed playing as rain, dpina and other names why do u demand to know my name im meerly stating that you sir ar an IGNORAMOUS

who do u think you are its obviously you have been in a closed tiny community waaaaaay to long shame on you and ure H clan

[ubernuka]

Uber, you've made a false account to further defame Hardcore here in another thread, now it would appear as though you've made two more. "Rebelpandacake" wouldn't allow their 15 year old son to play on =]H[= because of what you've seen in the ingame chat, and yet your in game name is 'takinapandashat', and this new account shares the same non existant location (wikkiwahwah) as the last fake account that was banned.. What a load of BS. I still do not completely oppose a player donating $5 to get their permanent ban revoked, but the sheer tenacity involved in coming here, making false accounts, slandering and defaming a great server and clan, is downright unacceptable.

Anyways, flame mod off. And now back on topic.
I recently had a look at the current EULA for Battelfield 2, and saw nothing relevant to this matter. I don't mean to undermine any R-DEV's (and i say this with respect), but could you point me in the direction of the terms that state publicly profting on this manner is illegal?

I suggest you take that up with hardcore clan because the rules clearly state that swearing is allowed as long as not directed at any one individual.
I have made no false accusations as far as I am concerned. And I haven't made any false accounts any where. I have only just learned how to post a screen shot ffs.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

the argument here is about the hardcore server charging ppl to be unbanned yes i am a freind of ubernuka i have know him since my teens i also have had no problems whilst playing on the hardcore server yet i cannot condone the blatant disregard for EA EULA and being Guild master in another game i can understand the problems of running a clan and keeping its members in order but i would never charge or force ppl to pay for an unban cause to me thats extortion or blackmail which ever you choose it to be let the devs an the owners of the licence take this further as we as a community seem to be doing nothing but going around in circles flaming each other. this of course is my own personal view if i offend anybody then i appologise but to break the terms and agreement even unknowingly is not an excuse

Redacted

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Coeman and admins! PLEASE this has gone too far, and all this is very offtopic and now we have flaming and accusing people around here. I suggest you open feedback and lock this.

Coeman has asked that this thread stay open until this issue is resolved, and the feedback thread remain locked. All feedback should be directed to http://www.hardcoregamingclan.com

[KiNg828]

Uber its so obvious it took me 5 minutes to realise.

- Each one of your 3/4 accounts are never on at the same time and reply to the same quote minutes after the other.
- Each of your new accounts try to act like he has no literacy skills yet one has a 15 year old kid.
- Each location is in lower caps and is stupid or trying to justify that you know each other but have just joined the forums to back you up.
- The other accounts spam on other topics to get there post count up before posting.

Seriously, stop the blatant defamation campaign on =H= and stick to the real issue which people are trying to discuss here without your childish games. You can easily argue your points without the use of other accounts.

[Arc_Shielder]

H[=CubCadet1972;1718195']On an ethical level, I see no difference between asking players to pay for reserved slots, paying for admin privileges, or for donations to be unbanned. I see all 3 practices as shady, and unethical.

Maybe EA should be contacted on regards to their opinion of all 3 practices.

You mean you see no difference between giving the option to support the server and get privileges (take the TG supporting member system away and you get pretty much the same level of standardization regarding this issue - that's why reserved slots exist in the first place) as opposed to a practice that is a blatant extortion?

TG system is immutable. They do not go to people and demand anything.
The "donations for unbanning" allows any admin to kick or ban anyone under false pretext and then profit from it.

How you continue to fight logic after so many years it's beyond me. But it's nice to see that any kind of good intentions coming from the OP is certainly not being reinforced by its clan members. Just ill argumentation after another. More of the same.

[Smiddey723]

Will not play on =H= server again unless there is no alternative, hot headed admins who react before they even know ? of the story have been issues many times

EDIT: im also not skilled enough to play there

[MacGyver_]

Uber/pancakes, my opinions are my own. I've stated before that I do not speak for =]H[= or any of their members: I speak for myself, that of pubber who has a played a multitude of servers and found =]H[= and its members to be the best. I won't bother with you again, as I think King has made a decent enough point.

[notmyingamename]

blah blah and so on do u get it guys im being flammed by some guy ive never met either i dont know who uber is but if u attack random people with such vehemence you are out of ure mind

do u speak for hardcore server

yeah i played in PR yeah im good yeah i have enjoyed playing as rain, dpina and other names why do u demand to know my name im meerly stating that you sir ar an IGNORAMOUS

who do u think you are its obviously you have been in a closed tiny community waaaaaay to long shame on you and ure H clan

trying too hard, pancake. ease back on the throttle a bit.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

You mean you see no difference between giving the option to support the server and get privileges (take the TG supporting member system away and you get pretty much the same level of standardization regarding this issue - that's why reserved slots exist in the first place) as opposed to a practice that is a blatant extortion?

TG system is immutable. They do not go to people and demand anything.
The "donations for unbanning" allows any admin to kick or ban anyone under false pretext and then profit from it.

How you continue to fight logic after so many years it's beyond me. But it's nice to see that any kind of good intentions coming from the OP is certainly not being reinforced by its clan members. Just ill argumentation after another. More of the same.

I have been instructed that I may no longer comment on by belief of the unethicality of reserved slots on this forum.

[A.Wickens]

H[=CubCadet1972;1718195']On an ethical level, I see no difference between asking players to pay for reserved slots, paying for admin privileges, or for donations to be unbanned. I see all 3 practices as shady, and unethical.

Maybe EA should be contacted on regards to their opinion of all 3 practices.

OK I have seen enough mentions of the supporting member kick and by extension Tactical Gamer to warrant a comment.

I do speak for Tactical Gamer, I am responsible for all things relating to PR at TG, the Admin Teams for both PR:Arma and PR:BF answer to me.

Cub and anyone else that purports to speak for ]H[ or support them, please do yourself a massive favour and avoid trying to drag my community into this sordid little discussion. As has been explained for those who are not in the know but willing to comment, the SM system at TG has nothing to do with Administrative actions.

TG hosts multiple titles, we are a massive community, 20,000 plus registered members. TG hosts 2-3 Arma servers, a 62 player PR:BF server, a 100 player PR:Arma server, 3 BF3 servers to name but a few. We have very large and successful forums, our own teamspeak etc. This all costs a vast amount of money. Those who choose to donate to the community as a whole are afforded some benefits including Webspace and a reserved slots on our servers where possible as a thank you. The SM money from players who play PR merely goes into a pot. In turn this allows us to support some titles we feel have merit that may otherwise no longer have a home due to cost/feasability issues.

There is nothing shady about it. There is something decidedly shady about an Admin asking for money to remove a ban. That this startingly obvious fact is being skirted around is one of the key issues here.

There is nothing shady about the set up at TG whatsoever. I personally vet every single Admin appointment at TG relating to PR. The recruitment of Admins and their conduct on the server and forums is something I take extremely seriously. Your vague claims are nothing more than baseless mudslinging in a vain attempt to cover up the fact that your Admin has been caught bang to rights.

It simply wouldn't happen but if the situation was reversed I can assure you the TG Admin responsible would be dismissed on the spot, then permanently banned from the TG servers. I would then see to it that they were removed from the wider TG community as a whole.

Again, the easiest way to not appear a complete fool is to not speak of things you have no knowledge nor understanding of, nor to make baseless claims or vague statements.

Thanks for your time.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

OK I have seen enough mentions of the supporting member kick and by extension Tactical Gamer to warrant a comment.

I do speak for Tactical Gamer, I am responsible for all things relating to PR at TG, the Admin Teams for both PR:Arma and PR:BF answer to me.

Cub and anyone else that purports to speak for ]H[ or support them, please do yourself a massive favour and avoid trying to drag my community into this sordid little discussion. As has been explained for those who are not in the know but willing to comment, the SM system at TG has nothing to do with Administrative actions.

TG hosts multiple titles, we are a massive community, 20,000 plus registered members. TG hosts 2-3 Arma servers, a 62 player PR:BF server, a 100 player PR:Arma server, 3 BF3 servers to name but a few. We have very large and successful forums, our own teamspeak etc. This all costs a vast amount of money. Those who choose to donate to the community as a whole are afforded some benefits including Webspace and a reserved slots on our servers where possible as a thank you. The SM money from players who play PR merely goes into a pot. In turn this allows us to support some titles we feel have merit that may otherwise no longer have a home due to cost/feasability issues.

There is nothing shady about it. There is something decidedly shady about an Admin asking for money to remove a ban. That this startingly obvious fact is being skirted around is one of the key issues here.

There is nothing shady about the set up at TG whatsoever. I personally vet every single Admin appointment at TG relating to PR. The recruitment of Admins and their conduct on the server and forums is something I take extremely seriously. Your vague claims are nothing more than baseless mudslinging in a vain attempt to cover up the fact that your Admin has been caught bang to rights.

It simply wouldn't happen but if the situation was reversed I can assure you the TG Admin responsible would be dismissed on the spot, then permanently banned from the TG servers. I would then see to it that they were removed from the wider TG community as a whole.

Again, the easiest way to not appear a complete fool is to not speak of things you have no knowledge nor understanding of, nor to make baseless claims or vague statements.

Thanks for your time.

Again, I have been instructed that I may no longer comment on my belief regarding the ethicality of paying for reserved slots on this forum.

I have not condoned nor covered up my beliefs that the admin that offered payment as an unban option are unethical.
It is unethical, and steps have been taken to ensure that it never happens again.

Any other portions of my now redacted post are personal beliefs only.

[Jeepo]

EVERYONE has been instructed. No more. keep this on track, that is to say:

• ]H[ Servers bribery for removal of bans
• ]H[ Servers breach of the PR server licence agreement
• ]H[ Servers failure to issue Gaz with the request information
• ]H[ servers likely server licence removal due to the above
• ]H[ Servers gameplay may also be discussed here

[/list]

All other things are off topic and seem like a rather pathetic attempt by ]H[ members to deflect their own failings.

I do not want other servers or anything off those topics discussed. Any breaches will be issued immediate infractions. Final warning for everyone.

[Sgt. Mahi]

lol

Uhmm... wauw... Nice thread here.

Now I've never really played on Hardcore, not more than a couple of times anyway but isn't this blown up to a major thing for no reason??

Personally i can't see why the "don't like it, don't play on our server" argument isn't valid. I haven't been on one server where I haven't seen this argument used by an admin at some point where the admin got tired of arguing. I think that it has been stated numerous times that servers and fora isn't a democracy where everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I know there's a certain way PR should be played to be enjoyable and I know a few rotten eggs can ruin it for everybody but to say a whole server is ruining the whole PR community's player standard base is just BS... sorry I have to say it but we all move on to another server if we feel like the server is bad.

Obviously som still like to play on Hardcore... So let them. Geez.

[deadlie1]

I SAY AGAIN: Who and what ultimately moderates the way one server runs from the way another server runs. This one incident from an obvious flamer who asked not to be allowed to play on the server is ruining the gaming experience of several hundreds of PR faithful. I play with many, many serious adults who choose to play on whatever server because of the conditions of that server. A server that populates and stays populated regularly cannot be so bad as to be removed.

IS THIS THE END OF PROJECT REALITY? IT WAS A MISTAKE!

[MacGyver_]

The bad decision of a single admin should not cripple the reputation of a clan like this. Bad decisions are made occaisonally, whether it by admins in =]H[= or in other servers. Admins are chosen as admins because they are responsible, mature people. But like all of us, they are (actually) human, and they make mistakes. A mistake was made and apologised for, and so far the majority of this thread has gone completely off topic, with people voicing their opinions of =]H[= as a clan and as a server (admittedly, myself included). These opinions should be made in a feedback section either here ( ), or on the =]H[= forums: not whenever an opportunity is presented. As far as I am concerned, =]H[= is fully populated almost all the time for a reason.

But regardless, the issue of the $5 donation in exchange for a ban removal is why we are here. As I said, Coeman has publicly apologised for the incident, so all that should really be going on in this thread is an R-DEV resolving the issue, rather than people sharing their dislikes (and likes) of the server; which has nothing to do with this.

EDIT: Again, i don't wish to undermine any R-DEV's, but I still can't see what term in the Server License Agreement or EULA this incident is in violation of. Completely based off personal interest btw, as I said, I don't speak for =]H[=.