Project Reality Forums

mat552 wrote:There inherently cannot be true civilians in PR. BF2 does not allow neutral players. If you see someone who is not wearing your uniform, their being alive runs directly counter to your victory goals.

That is black and white, be all and end all, full stop.

You don't say...

ComradeHX wrote:You don't say...

It keeps coming up for some reason that there are "civilians" in game or that bluefor should roleplay. The best way to respond is to point out that has not ever been and will not ever be a reasonable expectation, not from the BF2 base.

Even if it somehow became reasonable, that expectation of roleplay seems to be totally one-sided. People are fine with collabs spamming nasheed and shouting all kinds of wonderfully racist stereotypes but Bluefor have to do their best ArmA impression.

mat552 wrote: Even if it somehow became reasonable, that expectation of roleplay seems to be totally one-sided. People are fine with collabs spamming nasheed and shouting all kinds of wonderfully racist stereotypes but Bluefor have to do their best ArmA impression.

That's why it's asymmetrical...

What is "arma impression" to you? I hope it involves proper trigger discipline.

ComradeHX wrote:That's why it's asymmetrical...

What is "arma impression" to you? I hope it involves proper trigger discipline.

Trigger discipline is something you should practice in every round of PR, force on force or insurgency alike.

ArmA is about oppressively, intentionally, aggressively reducing the fun factor as much as possible through every means available like long, counter intuitive rulesets on which one side lies failure and the other lies yet more failure or accurately recreating a full chain of command with 8 guys, complete with tracked "UMCJ" violations for using the wrong radio to talk to the guy above you without express written permission. (That isn't entirely fair anymore, ArmA III seems to have made a concerted effort to be more accessible and less Officer Reject Fantasy Playground but the general gist of my complaint still holds up, complexity for the sake of complexity isn't inherently a good thing in a multiplayer environment) I could show random players every move a collab makes for ten minutes and I bet more than three quarters of them would fail a test about what actions make the collab a martyr versus a legit target.

Asymmetrical game balance does not mean "one-sided landslide". It means both teams have equal chances at victory that require them to take separate paths. Bluefor's path requires a disproportionate amount of discipline in comparison to what the Insurgents must put forth. In two teams of exactly equal skill, Insurgents are going to win every single time. That's great for an occasional 'title fight' between clans who pride themselves on their skill/coordination but it's a recipe for unmitigated disaster when you're dealing with 45+ random chumps.

mat552 wrote:Trigger discipline is something you should practice in every round of PR, force on force or insurgency alike.

ArmA is about oppressively, intentionally, aggressively reducing the fun factor as much as possible through every means available like long, counter intuitive rulesets on which one side lies failure and the other lies yet more failure or accurately recreating a full chain of command with 8 guys, complete with tracked "UMCJ" violations for using the wrong radio to talk to the guy above you without express written permission. (That isn't entirely fair anymore, ArmA III seems to have made a concerted effort to be more accessible and less Officer Reject Fantasy Playground but the general gist of my complaint still holds up, complexity for the sake of complexity isn't inherently a good thing in a multiplayer environment) I could show random players every move a collab makes for ten minutes and I bet more than three quarters of them would fail a test about what actions make the collab a martyr versus a legit target.

Asymmetrical game balance does not mean "one-sided landslide". It means both teams have equal chances at victory that require them to take separate paths. Bluefor's path requires a disproportionate amount of discipline in comparison to what the Insurgents must put forth. In two teams of exactly equal skill, Insurgents are going to win every single time. That's great for an occasional 'title fight' between clans who pride themselves on their skill/coordination but it's a recipe for unmitigated disaster when you're dealing with 45+ random chumps.

Except somehow it's just soooo difficult when it's BluFor on insurgency.
Apparently better guns...etc attracts idiots.

What you mentioned about Arma is called learning curve; of course people fail when they CAN'T LEARN. I expect anyone willing to install a mod for a game almost as old as them(going by the perceived age of players on certain servers) to be somewhat capable of learning something.
You don't understand that there are different levels of simulation for different kinds of people to have fun; you are clearly not for that particular kind of fun.
PR has a learning curve but has nothing close to what you described.

Disorganized Insurgents are even easier to defeat...
Civi would have no intel for Gary...etc.(all of this is invisible to you on BluFor; just because you see a civi in the distance that does not mean he is working alone).
There would be no accurate Area Attack.
There would be no one informing team of blufor movement through waypoints.
Gary/Bigred would drive out in the open and get shot by APC.
No Hideout to spawn near cache to defend...etc.
Everyone is reduced to using bad weapons(yes AK does more damage, no it does not make a difference since it's 3 shot kill on bodyarmour anyway) to try to fight BluFor "fairly" and lose.

Neither side can win easily without teamwork.

With great assets comes great responsibility; of course BluFor loses if it's all retards who waste every asset and walk to cache(and get shot dead on the way to cache).

I disagree. Right now Insurgents can win, easily, without anything even close to the level of teamwork Bluefor have to demonstrate merely to leave their main base without suffering casualties. "Every man for himself" has been proven time and time again to be a winning formula for Insurgents.

If they do choose to organize and fight as a team, Bluefor is absolutely locked out of victory before the match even starts.

mat552 wrote:I disagree. Right now Insurgents can win, easily, without anything even close to the level of teamwork Bluefor have to demonstrate merely to leave their main base without suffering casualties. "Every man for himself" has been proven time and time again to be a winning formula for Insurgents.

If they do choose to organize and fight as a team, Bluefor is absolutely locked out of victory before the match even starts.

Basecamping is disallowed in server rules where I play; go play in another server if you can't get out of base alive.

I don't see you making videos on winning by teamwork.

Good Evening,

Let's agree to disagree on some of these points guys.

I strongly feel that CIVIES are a valid tactic for Insurgents and would hope that their purpose could be expanded upon. As pointed out in an earlier post, it basically boils down to the ability of CIVIES to gather intel on blufor movements. With no means of aerial observation like a UAV, CIVIES are needed. There are very very few people that like to play medic on any Insurgent level or faction. Call out for a medic on any Insurgent map and you will find maybe 10% on the high end and most likely less than 5% on average.

Just like blufor, insurgents attracts a number of uninformed people as well. They think all RPG's are guided missiles and that 1 shot should kill anything walking. They also expect a tight grouping of their bullets while firing a gun with horrible barrel climb.

Good Evening,

Just had a blast on HOG / Asad Kahl. My CIVI squad executed at least 4 guys and most likely a 5th. It was a most beautiful thing!!

Good Evening,

Still fun to play as a CIVI against the French or IDF. I have got to say, if your team on Op Marlin INS is French, educate them about the CIVIES or they will lose miserably.

Lastly, if you like this thread, rate it. Thank you guys for all the fun times we have had as CIVIES!!!

Yes, I will keep on keeping on.

Just casting another vote for the civi way of life here.

(When I start PR and bring up the server list, if there's a map with a civi option, I'll always join that server in preference to any other.)

Good Evening,

Ok, I'm a bit confused with this one little sentence in the new 1.3 manual.

>>> If a Civilian is killed, it takes 2 minute to respawn if they are arrested.

Ok, so, if you are killed "martyr" as a civilian it is now 2 minutes to respawn or if you are killed "arrested" it takes 2 minutes to respawn like it always has?

Edit>>>

One more thing, from previous versions, it was my understanding that the following only applied if a Civilian "CIVI" was in a bomb vehicle during detonation. Is this still true or has something changed in the v1.3?

>>>Civilians that decide to commit suicide are counted as an arrested and subsequently reward the coalition team with intelligence Points, after which it can take about 60-75 seconds to respawn.

Good morning,

Well, the CIVIES job just became extremely harder. It only takes 50 intel points (manual page 12) to find out about the next known. While the CIVI tactic is widely used, I don't believe that is used enough to warrant a 2/3 reduction in needed intel points for the next known. It appears the devs want the INS maps to go back to the steam roller that it always was before I started perfecting the CIVI tactic. So much for INS let the 20 minute rounds begin. Hopefully this will change.

I was only able to play INS last night for about 1 hour so I don't have much to report or confirm. BJC may be updating the guide soon to put in some information that he found. All the players that were on yesterday evening all wanted AAS.

RAWSwampFox wrote:Good morning,

Well, the CIVIES job just became extremely harder. It only takes 50 intel points (manual page 12) to find out about the next known. While the CIVI tactic is widely used, I don't believe that is used enough to warrant a 2/3 reduction in needed intel points for the next known. It appears the devs want the INS maps to go back to the steam roller that it always was before I started perfecting the CIVI tactic. So much for INS let the 20 minute rounds begin. Hopefully this will change.

I was only able to play INS last night for about 1 hour so I don't have much to report or confirm. BJC may be updating the guide soon to put in some information that he found. All the players that were on yesterday evening all wanted AAS.

This.

At first I thought Civi Martyr do not decrease intel anymore.

This, combined with the bug that VOIED/Mines disappear when the Sapper kit disappears(so I can't pull blufor onto my own IED anymore unless they happen to find me in a 3 minute window) makes INS a lot less fun.

Only positive side is that now I get a lot more kills(~10) per round without having to kill a full humvee/truck.



All the INS rounds I won last two days were from absolutely incompetent blufor filled with new players who can't even find the cache(probably don't even know what it looks like).

Good Morning,

Forgot to add. Be aware of some servers that may kick you for forcing a roadkill (yes it happened this weekend to a friend of mine playing CIVI). This hasn't been an issue on most servers until the new version came out. When the new version came out, blam, old servers that were hugely unpopulated or idling offline now are back fully populated.

RAWSwampFox wrote:Good Morning,

Forgot to add. Be aware of some servers that may kick you for forcing a roadkill (yes it happened this weekend to a friend of mine playing CIVI). This hasn't been an issue on most servers until the new version came out.

That soooooooo wrong ,purpose of civies is to harrass blufor that not fair.

Good Evening,

I've started version 2.0 of the CIVI guide. I will be as inclusive as possible and make it a top notch production. Stand by for more info.

Good Evening,

Ok, I've revised the guide (9 pages worth) to include as much information as I can. Please note that this is the .0 version and there will be more revisions SOON. Take a look at it and comment here if you have any input:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b-psd2bGsT15HuraljNPluKcqQb5CuJA8pO58-A_ffs/edit?usp=sharing

Can you still suicide after being hurt to get a "Martyr" death?

And by suicide I mean jump off a cliff or run into a fire/barb wire.

I've yet to play as a Civi in 1.3

Good Afternoon,

Yes, that is still available and detailed on page 3.

After reading it last night after I finished, I noticed some small errors - spelling, grammar, context, etc.. Will continue to work on it.