Project Reality Forums

PatrickLA_CA wrote:Most if not all AAVs in PR have a minimum of 4 missiles. If 3 out of 4 miss then 1 hits which gives AAVs a 100% chance to destroy an aircraft every time they have a full clip.

John has a perfect dice.
John knows that when he rolls it, each side has a change of 1 in 6 to be on top.
John then proceeds to roll the dice 5 times and in those times he got all numbers except 3.
John now says:
- "Oh boy, the next number can only be 3, cause its the one missing!"
John was wrong and lost his wife, kids and house.

Don't be like John, learn the difference between independent events.

I know how chances work, the reply was intended to the guy who said that it works as intended when someone posted a video of every target taken down by an AAV with the 3rd or 4th missile fired. Jesus

Yes, It works as intended when an heavily limited vehicle with no self-defense (Avenger is bullshit strong, I'll give you that.) with one very specific role that can only target air units and require 2 crewman to operate effectively can kill Air Vehicles that are not aiming at it.

AAVs should have always 100% chance to kill a diving jet that is unaware of it. They are limited, numbered, and easy to spot. If you dive the AAV, I guarantee that you'll be immune to its missiles.

The only thing needing changes if anything are stationary AAs and MANPADs.

PatrickLA_CA wrote:I know how chances work, the reply was intended to the guy who said that it works as intended when someone posted a video of every target taken down by an AAV with the 3rd or 4th missile fired. Jesus

Pro tip for you because you don't seem to be very smart:

Don't fly over AAV.

You're all getting carried away.
Back to the basics :

Step 1 : Lock flares and not jet, wait for "SHOOT" animation message
Step 2 : Proceed to click, missile goes for flare
Step 3 : Click again, missile goes for jet while still locking the flare
Step 4 : Gg you just killed the asset you didn't lock at all

Conclusion : It is broken, if it locks the flare and says "SHOOT" then whenever you shoot it should go for the locked flare and not the jet.

That's not how AA works. The interface you see is predicted and is 90% bullshit when there are more than a couple of flares in front of you. It doesn't work, it never works, all it does is tell you that you've waited enough time for the missile to launch in "locked" mode.

Welcome to DICE games.

[R-DEV]AlonTavor wrote:Yes, It works as intended when an heavily limited vehicle with no self-defense (Avenger is bullshit strong, I'll give you that.) with one very specific role that can only target air units and require 2 crewman to operate effectively can kill Air Vehicles that are not aiming at it.

AAVs should have always 100% chance to kill a diving jet that is unaware of it. They are limited, numbered, and easy to spot. If you dive the AAV, I guarantee that you'll be immune to its missiles.

The only thing needing changes if anything are stationary AAs and MANPADs.

Well if we're going the way it should be IRL then give Apaches the ability to lock on any ground asset on the map after only exposing the Longbow radar for 3 seconds above a hill and we'll call it fair.

PatrickLA_CA wrote:Well if we're going the way it should be IRL then give Apaches the ability to lock on any ground asset on the map after only exposing the Longbow radar for 3 seconds above a hill and we'll call it fair.

LOL don't come with IRL. It's a game limited by its engine.
FYI AA IRL is pretty strong too and will kill any cas chopper when he leaves dod

[R-DEV]AlonTavor wrote:That's not how AA works. The interface you see is predicted and is 90% bullshit when there are more than a couple of flares in front of you. It doesn't work, it never works, all it does is tell you that you've waited enough time for the missile to launch in "locked" mode.

Welcome to DICE games.

Didn't know, thanks for the clarification.
Well since flares seem to work (even if you get locked by this "impossible missile" there is still a way to dodge it), how about we increase their amount?

By the way is the testing team still opened for testers? I'd love to test those things with more people focussed on the same problem rather than doing this.

ITT:

Everyone that flies CAS: "CAS/AA is broken, can't perform decently with it."

Everyone that doesn't do CAS: "CAS/AA is fine, balanced and how it should be, get over it. CAS is supposed to just die."

Repeat x times.

I would advise the people who don't play CAS to go out of their comfort zone and try it. Just so you see what you're talking about.

If you only see through the eyes of infantry you can't really give balanced feedback. People who play CAS probably have a more evened out view on things because they've played on both sides of the issue.

Having played since 0.874 I can safely say these are the worst patches to use CAS in, and there has been some pretty terrible patches before. You used to always get some degree of effectiveness before, now, not so much.

In helis, and jets the updated speed, and physics respectively, are also a big part of the problem.

ITT (for those of us who are ignorant ground dwellers):

People who fly CAS want to be able to do everything alone and do not feel the need to coordinate with ground forces at all.

AA instantly downs every air asset with 100% efficiency, there is absolutely no counter to AA.

CAS is supposed to be able to loiter over AA positions, drop bombs, and still get away without a scratch because they pressed the flare button a few times.

Devs chimed in saying "engine limitations" and clarified exactly how flares and AA interact with one another, CAS whore possibly want an engine redesign to accommodate their lack of intel and inability to wait for targets of opportunity

Basically CAS wants to do everything and have their only counter for everyone other than CAS whores to be nerfed to the ground so they can have glorious KDR and stop whining about getting shot down when AA clearly has limits.

Am I missing anything here? I think we might as well just cut to the chase and remove AAVs and AA emplacements to allow Virus and friends can shit bombs all over the map without any recourse or need to exercise caution.

viirusiiseli wrote:ITT:

whine whine I died Q_Q

Having played since 0.874 I can safely say these are the worst patches to use CAS in, and there has been some pretty terrible patches before. You used to always get some degree of effectiveness before, now, not so much.

In helis, and jets the updated speed, and physics respectively, are also a big part of the problem.

Having played since whatever the fuck the version was when I joined, I can say the CAS balance you want was the most cancerous we've ever had in PR. AA missiles had less than 5% hit rates, but of course this was perfectly realistic according to you, since that let you get the most kills in your chopper. You should give DCS:world a try if you want to see just how dead air assets would be against proper AA.

PBAsydney wrote:If 2 or more missiles are fired it's a 100% guaranteed kill. Getting locked = death unless it's a MANPAD.

That's good, so they can't complain about infantrywhore, and they have to be aware of AA in area.

Murphy wrote: Am I missing anything here? I think we might as well just cut to the chase and remove AAVs and AA emplacements to allow Virus and friends can shit bombs all over the map without any recourse or need to exercise caution.

Give them these
https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gu ... 1107054547

I find it hilarious how people in tanks have dealt with one-hit ATGM for the longest time yet they complain when AA has any sort of reliability in taking out aircraft.

.97 AA was pretty AIDS as well, 360 no scope no aim stinger memes worked very well against choppers. It's still better than what we have now.

X-Alt wrote:.97 AA was pretty AIDS as well, 360 no scope no aim stinger memes worked very well against choppers. It's still better than what we have now.

That was always a placebo effect, lock-on starts before ADS with launcher is all.
No-ADS launching is not special in any other way than not having to ADS.

Murphy wrote:People who fly CAS want to be able to do everything alone and do not feel the need to coordinate with ground forces at all.

CAS is supposed to be able to loiter over AA positions, drop bombs, and still get away without a scratch

CAS whore possibly want an engine redesign to accommodate their lack of intel and inability to wait for targets of opportunity

Basically CAS wants to do everything and have their only counter for everyone other than CAS whores to be nerfed to the ground so they can have glorious KDR and stop whining about getting shot down when AA clearly has limits.

to allow Virus and friends can shit bombs all over the map without any recourse or need to exercise caution.

There it is, the salt, lmao.

It wasn't CAS that was OP, it was just the group of people who spent a good amount of time on figuring out all the effective tactics.

No other crews did what we did, kill or effect wise. So it obviously wasn't too easy to rape with CAS, or there would have been at least 1 or 2 other crews that could have gotten 50+ with CAS.

Muttrah full cobra round.

We always had 1 guy going commander or JTAC, and if we had more friends on we would have several spotters relaying info. You think it's the magical CAS OPness that we used, but you obviously ignored to see the hard work behind the kills.

You also think we went for infantry kills while the enemy had AA cover, which is false too. We killed AAs first with good intel, lazes and dives, then raped the enemy team. That's why DEVs removed diving from helis first. Or if there was too much AA, we stayed away from them and killed what we could. It was outperforming the enemies, not using an OP asset with no skill.

All of these tactics do not work anymore. No CAS crew is getting anything done anymore. Because everything about CAS got nerfed, and AA was only buffed for the last 10+ patches.

You can keep whinging about CAS being OP back then, but you can't point to a single group of players that would have done the same as we did. CAS was balanced, guys on the ground were just garbage or didn't try hard enough.

playerskill =/= op asset

You'd think an old OD-S player would recognize this, but I guess not.

Piipu wrote:Having played since whatever the fuck the version was when I joined, I can say the CAS balance you want was the most cancerous we've ever had in PR. AA missiles had less than 5% hit rates, but of course this was perfectly realistic according to you, since that let you get the most kills in your chopper. You should give DCS:world a try if you want to see just how dead air assets would be against proper AA.

Oh it was sooo bad, I know right.

viirusiiseli wrote:You can keep whinging about CAS being OP back then, but you can't point to a single group of players that would have done the same as we did. CAS was balanced, guys on the ground were just garbage or didn't try hard enough.

Just because it was hard to do, doesn't mean it was fun for the people on the ground, or even remotely realistic, so I don't see why it should be kept just to keep your group happy.

Then there was the patch around a year ago when AA hit rates were around 10% against a chopper not doing any sort of evasion, as long as it dropped flares when the lock warning popped up. I flew around test airfield for around an hour with some friends, and as long as I had flares, I could just ignore the AA completely. The current system is a huge improvement over that at least.

Piipu wrote:Just because it was hard to do, doesn't mean it was fun for the people on the ground, or even remotely realistic, so I don't see why it should be kept just to keep your group happy.

Then there was the patch around a year ago when AA hit rates were around 10% against a chopper not doing any sort of evasion, as long as it dropped flares when the lock warning popped up. I flew around test airfield for around an hour with some friends, and as long as I had flares, I could just ignore the AA completely. The current system is a huge improvement over that at least.

Yes, point and shoot with no lock +75% hit rates for the dumb and dumber infantry. veri improved yes

Let's keep it simple. Locking and shooting at a flare that is between the jet and AA (closest heat source) should never result in the missile heading straight for the jet. This is plainly and simple a bug (unless there is a clandestine intention behind it).

This video doesn't even show what happens when you dive it, 99% will miss.

And whose fault is that? This wasn't certainly the case before the recent updates to AA. Maybe make sure a jet that dives on AA with flares behind him gets killed rather than a jet that is flying away from it and flaring nonstop.
Using your own fuckup as an argument against us, classy.

Why do you think we have any control over this? This shit is DICE code compiled a decade ago.

Keep hearing that excuse but the fact is shit like this never happened before the new system. Older 'unpredictable and buggy' AA systems were actually balanced really well because of their randomness. Maybe previous DEVs intended/embraced it that way and were happy with it (just a guess, plz don't roast me if wrong)?

SeekClosestTargetComp TTHeat is HARDCODDED. The Missile SEEKS the closest heatsignature

Here, even your RCON says it. Why are missiles not reliably going for the closest heat source anymore, even after clearly locking a flare? This all is starting to look very fishy.

Locking and shooting at a flare

Lets keep it simple. The client does not know what you actually lock at. For all I know there isn't even a "lock" mechanic in the code, it only shows when it'll fire in "lock" mode which will try to track targets. And even that is predicted and works like shit with high ping.

This wasn't certainly the case before the recent updates to AA.

Because AA had a 2km trigger and explosion radius. AA actual engine configurations were nerfed to the ground when the binary code was changed.
Players stopped trying to lock since it had a literal 0 chance to kill flaring fast movers, and instead just dumb fired it and had it explode a km away from the target. Look at viirus' video.

Why are missiles not reliably going for the closest heat source anymore

Missiles never went reliably for the closest heat source.