Project Reality Forums

axytho wrote:damage of rifle = damage of bullet

And barrel differences? This was already tried and playerbase did not like it at all.

kar98= two shoots and dead

garand= three shoots and dead

InfantryGamer42 wrote:And barrel differences? This was already tried and playerbase did not like it at all.

If you want to go into the realism of the thing: once you are past a certain barrel length, the muzzle velocity barely increases with increasing length. The obrez would be an exception.

As for gameplay:

body armor: 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 is 2 shot

no body armor: 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 is 1 shot.

At the very least ironsight mosin == scoped mosin and ironsight lee-enfield = scoped lee-enfield.

axytho wrote:If you want to go into the realism of the thing: once you are past a certain barrel length, the muzzle velocity barely increases with increasing length. The obrez would be an exception.

As for gameplay:

body armor: 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 is 2 shot

no body armor: 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 is 1 shot.

At the very least ironsight mosin == scoped mosin and ironsight lee-enfield = scoped lee-enfield.

Again. It was already tried and player base did not like it.

InfantryGamer42 wrote:Again. It was already tried and player base did not like it.

"The player base" being the people who come to the forums to complain about a change. Also 2 shot for body armor is what's implemented right now. The only thing that 1 shot would affect is WW2 and civilians in INS (which would be a good thing).

And most infantry players (VTraptor, Komu, me, Mebel) aren't complaining about 1 shot in WW2, we like it.

And if the people who made up most organized infantry squads would come to the forums and have their say, they would say the same thing.

Of course "the playerbase" which comments on this forum usually takes sniper/hat whenever it's available, so it's not like they care what rifle the rifleman gets, so long as it's bad.

axytho wrote:"The player base" being the people who come to the forums to complain about a change. Also 2 shot for body armor is what's implemented right now. The only thing that 1 shot would affect is WW2 and civilians in INS (which would be a good thing).

And most infantry players (VTraptor, Komu, me, Mebel) aren't complaining about 1 shot in WW2, we like it.

And if the people who made up most organized infantry squads would come to the forums and have their say, they would say the same thing.

Of course "the playerbase" which comments on this forum usually takes sniper/hat whenever it's available, so it's not like they care what rifle the rifleman gets, so long as it's bad.

52 page long feedback thread would not agree whit that statement, when we talk about round=damage conversation.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=144872

InfantryGamer42 wrote:52 page long feedback thread would not agree whit that statement, when we talk about round=damage conversation.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=144872

52 page feedback thread is also long because most complaints are about low damage for other weapons, not high damage for 7.62.


For WW2, there's no reason not to make 9mm and .45 ACP 2 shots as well, since no one is wearing body armor. make .30 and 7.92 Kurtz do 90% damage, and you're done.

AlonTavor wrote:+1


semi-auto should do ~90 damage to body center

Is possible in anyway to narrow the hit box down further for the core of the torso where the aorta artery is? If not, just like with Mosin Nagant I noticed first on Fallujah, one bullet has an body armor wearing Marine huffing, puffing, bleeding out from one torso or thigh shot. I know this because i hear the bleeding out breathing sound after i fire when its silent. Why not make all old battle rifle rounds like .303 , .30-06 , 7.62x54mmR, 7.92x57mm Mauser all the same damage?

I noticed since you gave the Taliban Enfields as ALT Rifleman kit it has been nerfed. It used to be the same or very near the Mosin 7.62x54mmR. If you want to know how much energy bullets deliver in joules or foot pounds you can google ballistics charts for each cartridge(i would be willing to help), math equations to convert information plug ins like bullet grains, muzzle velocity, distance to understand the chart which can be converted into a graph depicting the gradual energy drop. Over distance bullet loses some energy. Which is why when selecting your long range cartridge and rifle you want to make sure your bullet has enough energy to do its terminal ballistic job down range.

Anywhere from 500 FT-lbs (677 joules) and 1000 FT-lbs(1355 Joules) for un-armored targets and above 1000 FT-lbs for armored targets. One muzzle velocity chart for 7.62x54mmR Mosin Nagant says 2686 FT-lbs of muzzle velocity energy which drops to 2223 FT-lbs at 100 yard range, 1825 at 200 yards down to 957 at 500 for Mosin Nagant 7.62x54 mmR. So it should take 1-2 shots give or take to defeat body armor at 500 yards. Grain weight of bullet and propellant powder load factors into different ballistic outcomes on the charts.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/7-62x ... -7-62x54r/
http://ballistics101.com/7.62x54.php

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:I noticed since you gave the Taliban Enfields as ALT Rifleman kit it has been nerfed. It used to be the same or very near the Mosin 7.62x54mmR.

No, it hasn't been nerfed. And no, it was never close to 7.62x54.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:I noticed since you gave the Taliban Enfields as ALT Rifleman kit it has been nerfed. It used to be the same or very near the Mosin 7.62x54mmR.

Both of the kits you are talking about are the exact same, as far as damage, both rifles kill the same as most Sniper rifles.

The Enfield for the tlaiban "rifleman alt" kit, or the "gbsni_enfieldno4" has a damage value of 90 for its projectile, the "77_56_sniper".

It also holds 10 rounds.

The Mosin Nagant, or "vnrif_nagant_std" has the "77_56" projectile which has a damage value of 90.

... but it only holds 5.

Most Sniper rifles in PR have a damage value of 90, or more...

So, the Enfield rifles are actually as hard hitting as any Sniper rifle is in PR, and they hold more rounds than the Mosin.

I do think the settle time and deviation may e different for the Enfield though, which may be why it is a little more challenging to shoot.

ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 77_56_sniper
ObjectTemplate.material 3762
ObjectTemplate.damage 90
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 900
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 3000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.09
include projectiles_common.tweak

Suchar wrote:No, it hasn't been nerfed. And no, it was never close to 7.62x54.

The Enfield has felt so much less reliable compared to when I used to practice sniping with ironsights on Fallujah seeding rounds with Mosin and Enfield. As long as its over 1000 FT-lbs of energy it should defeat armor unless it was equal to NIJ Level IV which is rated for .30-06 black tip armor piercing, can take a few shots of that.

The screen shot i provided is the only direct ballistic chart comparison i can find off this link. No idea what barrel length or rifle they were fired out of but no matter what it was shot out of, its ammo has the same ballpark range of FT-lb measurements as there is a maximum and minimum based on amount of propellant powder. So .303 measured at 1981 FT-lbs and 7.62x54mmR measured 2652 at 100 meter/yard (distance measurement not denoted). At the muzzle 7.62x54mmR is 3000 FT-lbs and .303 is 2281 FT-lbs of energy going into the target. Big differences there in numbers of packing a punch but it should defeat armor and have them stop sprinting in their tracks bleeding out and doing the breathing hard thing like good old days.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... m-hornady/

I used to one shot people down at close range when I had to, it should considering i need to cycle a bolt. I feel like the sights are messed up too, i had a USMC enemy guy on Musa Qala shooting some of my friendlies sitting still crouching. I had my sight covering his entire body from the side, thats how close he was taking up the full space of the iron sight. I shot him twice, he went prone after the first shot. Either the second hit him or it didnt, all i remember was panicking that it didnt kill him feeling like the first bullet missed all together as Im running back into cache compound.

Did devs make it so damage from bullets decreases at range right? It all use to make sense before but point blank shooting them in torso isnt as reliable as before. Even feels that way with the Mosin now.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote: As long as its over 1000 FT-lbs of energy it should defeat armor

You are thinking too much into all of this, they are not modelling specific ballistics of a specific cartridge and bullet types.

They are modelling the effect of the system as a whole: cartridge, rifle, AND the experience and skill of the character shooting it.

And your theories of what a certain Ft./Lbs of energy should do are not accurate. Ft./Lbs. as a measurement of energy is not a very good unit of measure at all in real life.... but that is a topic for a whole thread of its own

The bullet is not the only thing being represented.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote: Did devs make it so damage from bullets decreases at range right?

No.
[html]ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 900
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 3000[/html]

That says that the damage of the Enfield's projectile doesn't loose damage until 900meters, and will have a damage value of 0 at 3000meters.

You just missed.

The Enfield is harder to shoot well because of deviation characteristics, not damage value.

WingWalker wrote:You are thinking too much into all of this, they are not modelling specific ballistics of a specific cartridge and bullet types.

They are modelling the effect of the system as a whole: cartridge, rifle, AND the experience and skill of the character shooting it.

And your theories of what a certain Ft./Lbs of energy should do are not accurate. Ft./Lbs. as a measurement of energy is not a very good unit of measure at all in real life....

What other alternative to measurement of bullet energy is there in ballistic tables? It can be used as a consideration to set a real life equivalent in the game to do damage on the bodies health percentage. Mosin or the rifle that uses .338 in the game does the most damage, 3000 FT-lbs should drop armored player in the torso from one shot point blank muzzle energy. The measurement of FT-lbs is dependent and created off many factors that are complexly experimented with, only time a measurement can be bad is if you are making something which affects the outcome of whatever you are making. Meaning you are going for a set specific outcome and you know the measurement you are going for and cutting it yourself. Too much of one ingredient, a few fractions off from your wood measurement ruins what you are doing. FT-lbs is opposite of making anything other than making a target drop, which is what you are making with FT-lbs measurements when it comes to bullets. Less like making, more like you are destroying with these measurements. If you are off by alot on your measurement to destroy something in one go, you can send another no problem, unless its an angry bear thats close. Its not a measure twice and cut once situation.

If it isnt a good measurement why is it included in many ballistic tables? Why does it have its own equation to find? Bullet energy is equal to the bullet weight in grains times the square of the bullet velocity v (in feet per second) divided by 450,437 . KE=wb*v2/450,437. Of course it also has conversion equation for meters per second. Its actually a great measurement if you know its importance, even better as a consideration for a video game trying to be realistic if its possible to put the equivalent in game based off real data. That is depending on what is hard coded, even if hard coded can equivalent plug in for damage be used?

Its not a measure twice and cut once situation, you can cut as many times as you need to here because you are destroying and not making. Therefore it cannot be a bad measurement. The numbers are un-predictable and useless until you have experience and can reference what they mean physically off paper charts, just by the vague look of its effect. This could then be converted for damage values to into the game for each weapon. More realistic damage from each caliber to the player damage model, of course there is no gore or body destruction, but there is bleeding in PR. This is the concept of using FT-lbs, you destroy, not make. Measurements can be off but you are either going to use too little or too much if your measurement is off for what the target size is you are destroying. Its either overkill or no kill with one bullet. Sometimes you need more, sometimes you need no more. But hence that is the problem because i am here talking about my problem with the Enfield.

Why do i need to send another bullet with that rifle? I know for sure i didnt need to before, i dropped players the same way everytime with one shot having them bleeding out with a few seconds left standing. Now it feels as though, in my perception that has changed because i knew one shot had them breathing hard about to go down wounded 5 seconds later, not anymore. So whenever i saw a full squad crossing somewhere I knew all I had to do was put one round in each of them, if i had to put 2 rounds into them then i couldnt kill a full squad cause 10 round Enfield and the amount of time putting 2nd shots into them meant i missed more opportunities to hit more of them them. This is my logic for choosing the Enfield over many other iron sight weapons suitable for marksmenship, 10 rounds, also the Enfield bolt cycles faster as a short action getting my next round off quicker.

Completely dependent for understanding ball park capabilities, you take what you know each interval measurement is capable of, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 FT-lbs and so on. So when you see a number on the chart you can reference the damage to what you have seen on living tissue or ballistic gel wound cavities so you know your needs based off what your target it. How much energy do you want to deliver? Good consideration to make when hunting large game animals that could hurt you or putting plug ins for weapon damage equivalency to real life in a game going for realism.

Bullet speed and weight directly correlates to how much damage it will do, if speed for bullets in the game is different, of course the damage is different. Im not asking for a bullet energy plug in to be coded in, just a way to get it in game to be equivalent to real life. Hunt a deer with different caliber old battle rifle rounds from WW2, only thing that changes is the size, duration of the few second ripple on the animals muscles with impact and size of the wound, it drops all the same from one shot eventually. Project Reality is the same way, one bullet you will bleed out from eventually, but some should be dropping you on damn near the spot you were shot like with the Enfield. A deer cant go more than 100 meters with that kind of blood pressure loss to the torso from any WW2 rifle round, if it does you missed every vital which happens in PR also. Where bullets graze the side of the face or outer frame of body giving the blood effect mist and screen effect but not enough damage to bleed out, medic can still medic that wound but screen doesnt flash red every 10 seconds.

All similar size holes outside, different cavity size inside from bullet energy, this cavity fills with blood faster if its bigger wound with more torn vascular capillaries to bleed into it. German, British, American and Russian calibers did pretty much the same thing, no body armor in WW2 either. Hydrostatic shock and expansion of the wound cavity from bullet dumping most or all of its energy into a target whether it passes through or stays in. This game has the equivalent of damage numbers which dont have conversions to represent the real thing. Then defeating armor components is a different deal before it can even wound. Im curious to how body armor works in the game to its damage because it just seems to lower damage and not stop any bullets. I saved an old picture of a color coded damage model i found for PR.

I am not thinking too much into this, im am not asking or going for specific bullet types like boat tail bullet effects on drag in game to have longer duration of stable bullet velocity in game. This is about damage and bullet speed of traveling matching the damage done down range with all WW2 battle rifle calibers. I doubted they would have a plug in to set energy of a projectile, but they could use real life considerations to set an equivalent. Especially if its hard coded and they cant make their own, but maybe just using the equivalent of setting damage to represent the difference in FT-lbs based off real charts and considerations.

Do all bullets go the same speed in Project Reality? Bullet speed directly correlates with how hard it hits when it wounds, if the speed of how fast a weapon can send a bullet flying is in the game. which of a different size and weight does different damage or course it carries a different energy load which the target absorbs as damage. If its hard coded and cant be done themselves, understandable and discussion over. Which definitely is in the game of different calibers doing different damage.

The VZ 61 Scorpion definitely doesn't do the same damage as AKM. I am using foot pounds as justification to make the game do damage proportionately to the caliber and bullet weight. If the damage cant be changed from loss starting at 900 then no complaints, but if you could apply a graph showing gradual decline loss of velocity and energy as the bullet travels farther it should be in the game.

Which in game translates to damage, in real life translates to hydrostatic shock. When I was a kid this summer camp introduced us to making 2D video games, i remember learning basically everything is called a "sprite". I made shooting game much like pong of 1 vs 1 to hit the other player first while dodging, i could set the feet per second of the projectile and it would equate. So if they arent modeling ballistics the 5.56 should fly just as fast as 7.62x39? Is that the case in this game with all bullets having the same speed regardless of different calibers and propellant that can fit inside a shell casing?

Foot pounds gives no exact measurement of anything except ball parks how hard it hits given weight and velocity. Then you take what you know about your needs for sniping like if target is armored or no armor. Two bullets of the same caliber, bullet weight and exact propellant will give different numbers under different bullet travel and firing conditions but at every 100, 200, 300 or whatever range it stays well within 100-300 FT-lbs of the average reading. Its almost pseudoscience to watch slow motion cameras of ballistic gel hydrostatically expand wound cavities differently at different foot pound readings, but you can also measure that off the camera at set distances which have visual measuring software tools that can map the ballistic gel expansion at different points of time in the footage of bullet impact.

Its so you know what the caliber is capable of deeper. Just another number to fill in a blank on the chart by plugging in equations like bullet grain times(x) square velocity divided by 450,427 . Especially relevant when hunting when you dont want to do too much damage to a tough animal whose meat you will eat or pelt you will mount, you want it to look and taste nice but want it down in a single shot. For the game we deal in damage which cannot be seen, so it must be demonstrated by the target dropping or how long it can go before dropping. Foot pounds deals in ball park ranges as many flight and non-flight factors change it even with the same caliber, rifle, bullet design and weight.

If the whole 900 meter distance to start losing damage is similar to the 600 meter bullet starts to drop and cannot be changed from hard coding that is understandable. But if you could apply ballistic charts and graph curvature showing loss of energy and velocity to video game wanting to be realistic it should be in it.

It's balanced already TBH. Why are people still complaining when most of the shooting on WW2 is close range. you can atleast 3 rounds out before a kar 98 gets 2 shots out. Making both of them 1 tap would just prevent Germans from going into close up fights cause it's an obvious loss if you miss the first shot. Then the game would just get boring because it'll be a snipeing fest.

WingWalker wrote:There was a thread about that, there is only one way to do the reload because of the type of reloads in PR.

What i meant to say was:

You have ONLY two options to reload garand with the clip sound:

1 -> empty you gun > it will autoreload with the clip sound as the first part of the reload animation.

2 -> empty your gun > no clip sound until you press R to reload > THEN the clip sound will happens as the first part of the reload animation

Devs choose the option 1 because is "cool" / "realistic". But like i said, "none pay atention or could even hear it on firing fight".

Option 2 is less annoying than 1 on my opinion.

Coalz101 wrote:It's balanced already TBH. Why are people still complaining when most of the shooting on WW2 is close range. you can atleast 3 rounds out before a kar 98 gets 2 shots out. Making both of them 1 tap would just prevent Germans from going into close up fights cause it's an obvious loss if you miss the first shot. Then the game would just get boring because it'll be a snipeing fest.

M1 Garand needs to be 2 shots to the torso. I agree one shot is too much. It should take down 100% for head shot, 75% percent of health for torso and 50% for thigh shot for M1 and 25% for arms/lower leg calf. The FT.lbs are the same pretty much for both bullets but K98 still higher. Like right up at 3000 for muzzle energy just like the Mosin, which should also be one shot. K98 should be 1 shot, Mosin Nagant 1 shot, M1 Garand 2 shots and Enfield 1 shot. This is for the torso.

M1 Garand has bad deviation that was there to make up for it being 1 shot, some reason bullets go everywhere but on the enemy

Suchar wrote:No, it hasn't been nerfed. And no, it was never close to 7.62x54.

In this 1.4 change log it says " Fixed Enfield sniper rifle damage being lower than other sniper rifles." Hit CTRL+F and search Enfield, its the 2nd time its mentioned. Is the sniper Enfield same as regular in terms of file? How did the problem of the weapon having lower weapon damage begin? Always like that or cause of changing something else? Just wondering in case there might actually be a problem with it, because it has changed. I did put 2 rounds into someone at close range for no effect to stop them from fighting where sniping always put them down a few seconds later.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... ht=Enfield

Danesh_italiano wrote:Devs choose the option 1 because is "cool" / "realistic".

I posted the problem in this thread because the Garand in PR did not function as it does in real life.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149942

Basically a DEV explained it is not possible since that there is only a few ways for the reload to happen because of the engine or whatever.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:What other alternative to measurement of bullet energy

There are, and no one is going to read your 14 paragraph post.

Wikipedia is not a replacement for experience.


If you want to talk about ballistics in real life, start your own thread.

WingWalker wrote:I posted the problem in this thread because the Garand in PR did not function as it does in real life.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149942

Basically a DEV explained it is not possible since that there is only a few ways for the reload to happen because of the engine or whatever.



There are, and no one is going to read your 14 paragraph post.

Wikipedia is not a replacement for experience.


If you want to talk about ballistics in real life, start your own thread.

Wikipedia? I learned everything i know about how to learn about ballistics from TiborasaurusRex Sniper 101 video series, he actually just put it back up today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0H ... vDCIcEPxUn . Actually everything was sourced from other websites if you look at the links. Which I describe the possible concept of how DEVs could possibly take those values, what they mean in real life then apply it to damage values of each weapon. Im applying the concept of real life ballistics to apply it to decision making for damage in a game that is trying realism.

Obviously they have done something similar based off caliber seeing its proportionality realistic, but Im listing something that could show them exactly how much energy each caliber differs from the next to set proper damage values. I get it, they are calculating fairness too based off M1 Garand Vs K98. I dont need to start my own thread just because you cant find the connection to this subject now matter how many ways i explain it. Also just saying there are alternatives to using FT-lbs without listing one alternative or knowing its use yourself shows there is none. While i explained in depth to use it. Im trying to give input my way, that doesnt need to follow your personal forum criteria. BPD?

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:Wikipedia? I learned everything i know about how to learn about ballistics from TiborasaurusRex Sniper 101 video series, he actually just put it back up today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0H ... vDCIcEPxUn . Actually everything was sourced from other websites if you look at the links. Which I describe the possible concept of how DEVs could possibly take those values, what they mean in real life then apply it to damage values of each weapon. Im applying the concept of real life ballistics to apply it to decision making for damage in a game that is trying realism.

Obviously they have done something similar based off caliber seeing its proportionality realistic, but Im listing something that could show them exactly how much energy each caliber differs from the next to set proper damage values. I get it, they are calculating fairness too based off M1 Garand Vs K98. I dont need to start my own thread just because you cant find the connection to this subject now matter how many ways i explain it. Also just saying there are alternatives to using FT-lbs without listing one alternative or knowing its use yourself shows there is none. While i explained in depth to use it. Im trying to give input my way, that doesnt need to follow your personal forum criteria. BPD?

ok but why does your squads have always the worst possible KD?