Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2007-07-17 23:09**

I like this idea Solodude, at first...but even with sway, I'd still want to be able to adjust AGAINST the sway and expect my bullet to go where I put it similar to RL. Maybe with the new animator coming online, Spearhead, they will be able to add in a sway or something. Who knows, I think he will be fixing prone issues as well.

Posted: **2007-07-18 21:24**

i think prone issues could be fixed if all iron sights act like LMG iron sights, that is to say, all small arms, aside from pistols perhaps, should take as long as it takes to bring up as a current LMG iron sight, and LMG's should take slightly longer.

That's controllable, as in, not subject to hardcoding in the way that simply adding the delay after prone seems to be, right?

Aside from accuracy, sway or something would be nice. But if it's not possible this mod already has so much to offer, i won't cry about it for too long.

Sometimes though it just burns with you play patient, move slow, set an ambush up, you know, with a good ambushing type weapon like a SAW, and some turd runs around the corner, dives to the ground and delivers one right to your dome even though you tagged him good it wasn't the scoped head shot he pulled off while you were still putting bullets in him.

Posted: **2007-07-18 21:28**

Animator has to animate the delay aiming.

Posted: **2007-07-18 21:32**

onix-barn wrote:i think prone issues could be fixed if all iron sights act like LMG iron sights, that is to say, all small arms, aside from pistols perhaps, should take as long as it takes to bring up as a current LMG iron sight, and LMG's should take slightly longer.

I tried too suggest that earlier in the thread.

But yes, that would be great to have a slight delay.

Posted: **2007-07-19 21:02**

PR draw distances and weapon accuracy in .6 are so high that it's dramatically changed the dynamics of fighting, and not necessarily for the better imo.

There's no such thing as a firefight anymore, which was the best part about the game. I remember in .4 and .5 on maps like BiMing where China would own the east side of the bridge city and USA would own the west side; fighting it out just 50m apart that would last 10, 20, 30 minutes or more. In the .6 versions, weapon accuracy is so high and you can see so far that infantry either doesn't get close to flags or they're gunned down in seconds at close range by 1 or 2 soldiers.

The net result is that infantry is killed/pushed off flags within 30 seconds, unlike previous version of PR where, especially in city fights, they could last 30 minutes which I thought was MUCH more fun. The only time flag battles last more than 30 seconds is when someone parks an apc or commander truck nearby and the zerging begins.

Every gun is so hyper-accurate that they perform better than sniper riffles; they shoot just as far, just as accurate, but faster and quieter. Half the guns have scopes which make it even worse. These guns aren't used like this in real life are they? It makes everyone a super human, super accurate sniper who can kill you with 1-3 shots within 2 seconds at any distance or movement with any gun.

It's to the point where a standard issue solder with a standard issue gun can not only target an enemy bunker at 200+ meters, but he can target the 12-inch viewing slit and not just fire at the soldier inside, but realizably target his head. Unless you're a sniper, that should be impossible.

If there is armor on the map, and the flag is out in the open, the capture of the flag is determined by whoever has more tanks. That's a very dull way to play a map.

For those who say "weapon accuracy matches reality", I'm no expert, but it doesn't take one to count the number of head-shot kills during a round (many while you're running full speed) and realize that it's beyond the level of ridiculous. I think some may like it because they can kill better than ever at any range with virtually any weapon, but it's not realistic and it's not good gameplay imo.

My suggestion is to:

Slightly lower the accuracy of all weapons
Remove scopes from most weapons except sniper riffles
Remove the zoom from iron sights when iron sights are used
Increase the cone of fire while moving, standing, and the time it takes to decrease the cone of fire while standing still.
Introduce new maps specifically designed with PR in mind.
- More city maps like Ejod but with larger city areas so that tanks cant snipe into them from every direction; force them to enter the city.
- Remove "bowl" style maps like Oman, Daqing, and Kufrah where flags are too close together and winning is determined by a few tank drivers/gunners.
- On large maps like kashan, make the flag capture order more logical (instead of slowly traveling clear across the map for each objective which negatively thins out forces too much), reduce the number of central bunker flags from 2 to 1, randomize aircraft/vehicle spawns (so that the enemy doesn't kill the A10 then perfectly time a pass over the airfield 20min later to destroy it 5 seconds after it spawns in the runway)

The effect of this would be:

Longer, more intense, realistic exciting fire fights
Sniper riffles will now have purpose again
Support mg's will be more effective, since it will no longer be possible to zero in on the enmey's mg's sound, step out from behind a rock and head shot him with 1-2 bullets from 150 meters away.
More "front line" battles that mirror realistic fights

Anyone who played Forgotten Hope mod for BF1942 remembers they had the same issues; they wanted realism but good gameplay. They settled on mg's being inaccurate at long range; even single shot, and designed maps that forced tanks to have infantry support by designing terrain with plenty of places for infantry to hide and sneak up on a tank to tnt or landmine it.

As infantry, you didn't dare cross that bridge for fear of the mg42 on the other side. Only way to defeat him was a sniper or a mass charge and hope that some guys survived.

Posted: **2007-07-19 21:39**

I disagree. If you make things less lethal, all that does is bring out the rambo in me and many others, again. There is no death deterrent in games other than you expose yourself you die, which is good. If your bullets don't go where you point them, even if that is semi unrealistic at over 300m, you will see me dancing like a fool thru your bullets from cover to cover, until its a CQB fight like back in .3 & .4. This is a game and when you allow players to exploit it's weaknesses they will because they can. Would you rather that exploit be everyone being able to engage targets at 300m or everyone having the potential to run and gun effectively at close range and the silly shit that would ensue? I would rather the former where staying alive is staying in cover, and knowing that you could get shot from long range so you have extra incentive to be mindful of where you choose to stand.

.5 and esp .6 have toned down the rambo to pretty much ineffective status, where as .3 .4 rambo style was in full effect. Since there is still no fix for prone diving and snap shots, the reason that isn't such a problem now is that fights take place at RANGE, not up close like in the past. It was not uncommon to be able to waste an entire squad solo in .3 and .4 with pretty much any rifle, because you could get close enough to spray and pray. 30min fightfights were BORING as the maps became stale mates.

I don't see the problem with getting shot at long range. It's the same as people crying that 7.62 being too lethal and how thats unfair and makes fire fights end too quickly.......
Being mindful of your chosen path will keep you alive. If you are out in the open, you are exposed and...
If you get shot in the face while looking over a wall, RARELY is it the first time you looked. For example shooting Militia guys on Metista (sp) in the bunkers in the face, no doubt many of my victims felt it was un fair to catch one in the teeth, but 90% of the time, that soon to be dead guy has been looking out the slit for more than .5 seconds, giving me time to make the shot clean. Same goes for hill tops ect.. if your silhouette stands out you are an obvious target.

I think there are ample resources to use to survive out in the open, such as don't walk, ride or walk behind armour like you should. Obviously these options require coordination with others, but thats the whole point of this mod. People rarely use all the tools they are given any where near their full potential. Dumbing things down to make it easier is anti PR IMO. People still run around exposed like lemmings in every match, thus many get cut down quickly but not unfairly. Don't take the obvious route, don't rush it and observe your surroundings, which rarely happens. It's 9/10 bee line to objective, lose many on the way and become ineffective once you reach said objective, rinse and repeat.

How often do you see players actually use prone to advance for more than a few feet? little rolls in what appears to be open terrain = cover when prone. Even when people take fire and go prone, they stand up within a few seconds only to get cut down. People more often than not push a bad position that gets you killed, instead of break contact and reengage or, use coordinated flanking or while group A is pinned down, group B pops up to fire and alternate.

There are so many things than can be done with what we have now but the players just don't do it. Which isn't something that can be fixed by changing 1's and 0's.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:32**

SiN|ScarFace wrote:I disagree. If you make things less lethal, all that does is bring out the rambo in me and many others, again. There is no death deterrent in games other than you expose yourself you die, which is good. If your bullets don't go where you point them, even if that is semi unrealistic at over 300m, you will see me dancing like a fool thru your bullets from cover to cover, until its a CQB fight like back in .3 & .4. This is a game and when you allow players to exploit it's weaknesses they will because they can. Would you rather that exploit be everyone being able to engage targets at 300m or everyone having the potential to run and gun effectively at close range and the silly shit that would ensue? I would rather the former where staying alive is staying in cover, and knowing that you could get shot from long range so you have extra incentive to be mindful of where you choose to stand.

.5 and esp .6 have toned down the rambo to pretty much ineffective status, where as .3 .4 rambo style was in full effect. Since there is still no fix for prone diving and snap shots, the reason that isn't such a problem now is that fights take place at RANGE, not up close like in the past. It was not uncommon to be able to waste an entire squad solo in .3 and .4 with pretty much any rifle, because you could get close enough to spray and pray. 30min fightfights were BORING as the maps became stale mates.

I don't see the problem with getting shot at long range. It's the same as people crying that 7.62 being too lethal and how thats unfair and makes fire fights end too quickly.......
Being mindful of your chosen path will keep you alive. If you are out in the open, you are exposed and...
If you get shot in the face while looking over a wall, RARELY is it the first time you looked. For example shooting Militia guys on Metista (sp) in the bunkers in the face, no doubt many of my victims felt it was un fair to catch one in the teeth, but 90% of the time, that soon to be dead guy has been looking out the slit for more than .5 seconds, giving me time to make the shot clean. Same goes for hill tops ect.. if your silhouette stands out you are an obvious target.

I think there are ample resources to use to survive out in the open, such as don't walk, ride or walk behind armour like you should. Obviously these options require coordination with others, but thats the whole point of this mod. People rarely use all the tools they are given any where near their full potential. Dumbing things down to make it easier is anti PR IMO. People still run around exposed like lemmings in every match, thus many get cut down quickly but not unfairly. Don't take the obvious route, don't rush it and observe your surroundings, which rarely happens. It's 9/10 bee line to objective, lose many on the way and become ineffective once you reach said objective, rinse and repeat.

How often do you see players actually use prone to advance for more than a few feet? little rolls in what appears to be open terrain = cover when prone. Even when people take fire and go prone, they stand up within a few seconds only to get cut down. People more often than not push a bad position that gets you killed, instead of break contact and reengage or, use coordinated flanking or while group A is pinned down, group B pops up to fire and alternate.

There are so many things than can be done with what we have now but the players just don't do it. Which isn't something that can be fixed by changing 1's and 0's.

You aren't addressing some noob that just started playing PR. We've been around for quite a while now. Same as you.

First off the lowering of the sprint and running speeds has done more to end RUN-N-GUN than anything else. It won't matter if the weapon is more accurate or not, you get more time to fire more rounds the way it is now. But you don't need more time cause the weapon hit where you aim first time everytime. That my friend is not realistic. US and NATO troops are some of the most highly trained troops in the world, and even a good percentage of them can't make these kinds of uber accurate shots at wildly long distances. Usually soldiers that get additional training to be Snipers by completing a Sniper school course or Designated Markmen that receive addtional training are the exception to the rule. Not all soldiers in the US military qualify EXPERT. I'd go so far as saying that about half hit the requirement and then start goofing off. Front line troops that DO NOT have addtional marksmenship training like DMs or Sniper seldom hit more than say 60 percent of there targets on the first try. That percentage is not exact but you get the point. NOW, most any PR player on any given night can hit about 80% or more on the first attempt. Hell I bet even you hit more than 80% of your targets on the first try. I suppose you are going to tell me that you can do that IRL too.

Headshots made in combat are usually the exception and not the rule IRL. In PR headshots happen by the hundreds IN ONE ROUND. If there are 64 players on a server for one map, I bet every one of the players was hit in the head at least twice. Some I am sure of get hit in the head more than twice. That's a 128 headshots in ONE ROUND. I'm sorry my friend, I call B*LLSH** on that.
These assault rifles are laserbeam accurate and they should NOT be, cause the REAL LIFE rifles that they seek to emulate are in no way that accurate, and neither are the troops that are carrying them. UNLESS those troops have addtional markmenship training. You guys have been watching to many Gene Audrey movies for sure if you think that.

The Soldier makes the rifle, not the other way around.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:35**

Zoom on ALL ironsights was significantly reduced from vBF2 in 0.6. With the exception of the USMC rifleman who has 4x as a placeholder for the ACOG.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:37**

I have to agree with Sin here. Weapons are lethal man, in PR we get insta-heal bangages and all kinds of stuff to keep us extra alive...so helping us stay alive even longer just helps all the rambos. The problem I see is all of the new guys coming from .5 (was VERY arcadey) and finding their run-n-gun tactics dont work as well anymore. Oh and they also don't like the wide open maps for the aformention reason as well. Ejod is close in fighting, if you are getting sniped at 200+ yds...sorry but thats your own damn fault, welcome to reality and stay out of the open. I really have no problems with current fire fights, they remind me of rainbow six kind of stuff. Don't go into the open, limit your range of fire, if you can see out...they can see in, stay off the skyline, if someone sees you first...move, keep your back to the wall, work the edge of the map to limit your angle of threat and listen for the enemy FIRST...get some recon so you know where the bad guys are and then engage.

One of the reason fire fights took so long in .5 is because people had super human movement abilites and could easily run in the open(sideways) with little fear....it was actually MUCH safer to run around than to take defensive position because of this gheyness and hitboxes. Now you have to think ahead, position yourself...if you are in a bad spot...many times you are already dead because you can't fly away using bad hitboxes and instant super speed. I see guys all the time standing around, then I shoot them in the head....then the noob on my team goes "Damn viper how are you getting so many kills...I was 3 star general in vanilla"....i say "I just slow down, stay down, flank, and fire from unknown position". Its easy to pick guys off because they have like 180degree attack views yet with a scope can only cover 30degrees at a time. Easy kills. For me the game has gotten way easier but others have yet to pickup on the new style. .5 was all CQB. IRL guys can pick moving targets off at 300yds with a scope(not just sniperrifle). Heck we were picking off bounding DEER at 300 yds ON THE RUN when we were kids(3-4 shots)...and our guns were about as accurate as a M16...its really not that hard.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:43**

Rico, there isn't a good way to imitate a poor soldiers abilities. In the military some soldiers are great shooters...some are poor. Which should we model in PR? the Bad ones?? No the devs have chosen to model very good shooters in-game. Now I agree we need some player weapon-sway when standing\croutched. But at the moment there is no good way to do this...so we are left with quasi-realistic accuracy. I think they've chosen the best route considering the BF2 limitations.

BTW I would like to see the MOA of weapons modeled in here though...and who is getting killed on the run by a head shot? I'm a pretty damn good marksmen (can shoot driver out of a vehicle) but I rarely am getting on the run headshot kills. I can only think of 1 time I've been headshotted on the run.

I'd also like to see more of a negative effect to getting shot...like it could mess your aim up, stumble or do somethign to your vision (slightly). Maybe they could tie it to the amount of health you have.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:47**

rico11b wrote:You aren't addressing some noob that just started playing PR. We've been around for quite a while now. Same as you.

First off the lowering of the sprint and running speeds has done more to end RUN-N-GUN than anything else. It won't matter if the weapon is more accurate or not, you get more time to fire more rounds the way it is now. But you don't need more time cause the weapon hit where you aim first time everytime. That my friend is not realistic. US and NATO troops are some of the most highly trained troops in the world, and even a good percentage of them can't make these kinds of uber accurate shots at wildly long distances. Usually soldiers that get additional training to be Snipers by completing a Sniper school course or Designated Markmen that receive addtional training are the exception to the rule. Not all soldiers in the US military qualify EXPERT. I'd go so far as saying that about half hit the requirement and then start goofing off. Front line troops that DO NOT have addtional marksmenship training like DMs or Sniper seldom hit more than say 60 percent of there targets on the first try. That percentage is not exact but you get the point. NOW, most any PR player on any given night can hit about 80% or more on the first attempt. Hell I bet even you hit more than 80% of your targets on the first try. I suppose you are going to tell me that you can do that IRL too.

Headshots made in combat are usually the exception and not the rule IRL. In PR headshots happen by the hundreds IN ONE ROUND. If there are 64 players on a server for one map, I bet every one of the players was hit in the head at least twice. Some I am sure of get hit in the head more than twice. That's a 128 headshots in ONE ROUND. I'm sorry my friend, I call B*LLSH** on that.
These assault rifles are laserbeam accurate and they should NOT be, cause the REAL LIFE rifles that they seek to emulate are in no way that accurate, and neither are the troops that are carrying them. UNLESS those troops have addtional markmenship training. You guys have been watching to many Gene Audrey movies for sure if you think that.

The Soldier makes the rifle, not the other way around.

You know you are over exaggerating the issue. When you shoot at someone on the move out in the open and you are killing them with 1 shot then you are a god because I don't claim to be able to do that. And if you do kill people on the move with a few shots that means you are just shooting at them and you do not have a laser beam or else it wouldn't take that many shots. It's not cut and dry there are many variables more than him running and you aiming, what is the offset angle, is he changing direction, did he slow down ect. Stationary head shots at 300m isnt realistic if you can pull it off every time and I have already said that if they could make the weapons simulate MOA at range thats fine and they should do it.

I call bullshit on you guys saying everyone is a crack shot, your hand on the mouse is not an aimbot and you and your friends do miss and I would imagine quite often on the first shot, or you would have atleast 10 kills on 1 mag.
Laser beams or not people still over expose themselves and run around in the open, down streets, stand on hills, stare out of bunkers, which last time I checked, is also unrealistic.

Posted: **2007-07-19 22:57**

VipersGhost wrote:I have to agree with Sin here. Weapons are lethal man, in PR we get insta-heal bangages and all kinds of stuff to keep us extra alive...so helping us stay alive even longer just helps all the rambos. The problem I see is all of the new guys coming from .5 (was VERY arcadey) and finding their run-n-gun tactics dont work as well anymore. Oh and they also don't like the wide open maps for the aformention reason as well. Ejod is close in fighting, if you are getting sniped at 200+ yds...sorry but thats your own damn fault, welcome to reality and stay out of the open. I really have no problems with current fire fights, they remind me of rainbow six kind of stuff. Don't go into the open, limit your range of fire, if you can see out...they can see in, stay off the skyline, if someone sees you first...move, keep your back to the wall, work the edge of the map to limit your angle of threat and listen for the enemy FIRST...get some recon so you know where the bad guys are and then engage.

One of the reason fire fights took so long in .5 is because people had super human movement abilites and could easily run in the open(sideways) with little fear....it was actually MUCH safer to run around than to take defensive position because of this gheyness and hitboxes. Now you have to think ahead, position yourself...if you are in a bad spot...many times you are already dead because you can't fly away using bad hitboxes and instant super speed. I see guys all the time standing around, then I shoot them in the head....then the noob on my team goes "Damn viper how are you getting so many kills...I was 3 star general in vanilla"....i say "I just slow down, stay down, flank, and fire from unknown position". Its easy to pick guys off because they have like 180degree attack views yet with a scope can only cover 30degrees at a time. Easy kills. For me the game has gotten way easier but others have yet to pickup on the new style. .5 was all CQB. IRL guys can pick moving targets off at 300yds with a scope(not just sniperrifle). Heck we were picking off bounding DEER at 300 yds ON THE RUN when we were kids(3-4 shots)...and our guns were about as accurate as a M16...its really not that hard.

Funny how you said it would take 3 to 4 shots to down a deer, but you expect to hit on the first round while playing PR. Also the DEER aren't shooting back

Sorry but I've never seen BAMBI with an UZI.

Most out of the box hunting rifles average 1.5 inches at a 100 yards. The more you pay the tighter the shot group, most of the time. That is considerably better than a beat up M16. I'm a Deer hunter as well. I've hunted all my life, except while in the Army. The places that I hunted growing up, and even today make it easy to take a Deer at 600 yards. Nice wide open fields. I even reload my own ammo. My point is to be a deer hunter is to be likened to a disiplined Sniper. Not a front line Infantry soldier with a cheaply massproduced assault rifle. Most people can't put 3 bullets into a 3 inch circle at 300 meters, so why pay for a rifle that can do it if the shooter can't? As I said before, it the soldier that makes the rifle, not the other way around.

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:06**

VipersGhost wrote:Rico, there isn't a good way to imitate a poor soldiers abilities. In the military some soldiers are great shooters...some are poor. Which should we model in PR? the Bad ones?? No the devs have chosen to model very good shooters in-game. Now I agree we need some player weapon-sway when standing\croutched. But at the moment there is no good way to do this...so we are left with quasi-realistic accuracy. I think they've chosen the best route considering the BF2 limitations.

BTW I would like to see the MOA of weapons modeled in here though...and who is getting killed on the run by a head shot? I'm a pretty damn good marksmen (can shoot driver out of a vehicle) but I rarely am getting on the run headshot kills. I can only think of 1 time I've been headshotted on the run.

I'd also like to see more of a negative effect to getting shot...like it could mess your aim up, stumble or do somethign to your vision (slightly). Maybe they could tie it to the amount of health you have.

All good points. You asked me which soldier I would like to see modeled and I say the "average" one. Not the bad apple, but not the uber soldier either. If the MOA is modeled accurately you will see something a bit more realistic I'm sure. I'd like to see that too. I can't seem to get many first shot kills to the head, but it has happened a bunch to me. Even while sprinting. First shot kills do happen quite often ingame. And many of these one shot kills are not coming from sniper rifles anymore. I wish there was a way to record how many headshots happened in a round vs how many shots to other parts of the body. Would make for interesting stats I'm sure.

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:20**

SiN|ScarFace wrote:You know you are over exaggerating the issue. When you shoot at someone on the move out in the open and you are killing them with 1 shot then you are a god because I don't claim to be able to do that. And if you do kill people on the move with a few shots that means you are just shooting at them and you do not have a laser beam or else it wouldn't take that many shots. It's not cut and dry there are many variables more than him running and you aiming, what is the offset angle, is he changing direction, did he slow down ect. Stationary head shots at 300m isnt realistic if you can pull it off every time and I have already said that if they could make the weapons simulate MOA at range thats fine and they should do it.

I call bullshit on you guys saying everyone is a crack shot, your hand on the mouse is not an aimbot and you and your friends do miss and I would imagine quite often on the first shot, or you would have atleast 10 kills on 1 mag.
Laser beams or not people still over expose themselves and run around in the open, down streets, stand on hills, stare out of bunkers, which last time I checked, is also unrealistic.

No one said anything about me or "my friends" being uber accurate. I also never said that "Everyone" is a crack shot. All I am saying is the weapons modeled ingame are more accurate than the "REAL LIFE" weapons they emulate. You "SEEM" to be saying that they are the same. Which they are not. Which tells me that YOU don't know what you are talking about. Since you say that you would like the weapons to simulate MOA, then why backpedal into your position about not changing weapon accuracy. I see you are just wanting to muddy the water and jack the post. That's fine, consider the post jacked. I won't waste anymore of my time on this nonsense. We'll just agree to disagree.

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:24**

Laying prone for cover is fine at short distances where undergrowth is drawn, but at medium to long range, enemies can see you better than you can see them. A guy standing at 250 yards can see you easily but you cant see them because that damn leaf is in the way.

Also, because of map design, most flags are out in the open so your only choice is to expose yourself for at least a few seconds which is more than enough time for someone to lay 2 bullets in you. You'll either die or bleed out.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with that if it were a sniper, but my argument is that virtually every weapon can be used like one.

I agree that .5 was too rambo to some degree, but that was more of an issue with the wide use of the grenadere class, crazy jumping and runnung speeds more than the accuracy of the weapons.

In .5, when being in the open for brief periods, your main concern was snipers and and armor, not nearly every guy with a laser gun. Also, the support gun was awesome when they increased the accuracy because you were fearful of them, but then other weapon accuracy was increased and now support class lost its edge.

I just think it should be much more difficult to kill a guy running full speed at 200 yards than just dropping prone/knee and firing a few shots for the kill. That is the rule more than the exception.

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:43**

rico11b wrote:Funny how you said it would take 3 to 4 shots to down a deer, but you expect to hit on the first round while playing PR. Also the DEER aren't shooting back Sorry but I've never seen BAMBI with an UZI.
QUOTE]

I didn't say I exect to hit on the first shot..or did I? Shit it takes me a few for sure, sometimes you get a lucky hit but hey. Another thing, a bounding deer is seriously fast and leaping aruond like peppe le pew from Loony Tunes...if I can kill a deer doing that, I should definitely be able to hit a guy with 40 lbs of gear on thats running in a straight line.

You guys are passionate about the issue and thats fine but there just isn't a good solution out there to get what you want ATM. Sure the MOA could be added in, I was one of the biggest advocates of that to begin with...still I dont think it'd make that much of a difference. We need weapon sway, but not the faked kind. We need a lot of things.

Being that this is a game, I want to be a DAMN good soldier who is a freakin awesome shot, tough as nails, can fire any weapon, never gets jammed, and can easily drive that tank if I have the right suit on. Why would you want to be average? Shit I bet I could shoot someone in the head at 200yds with the AR-15 scoped...as long as I had a rest. I definitely want to be able to do that in-game.

You know what I do think would be a good compromise to this...zero the guns at 200yds. This would limit some rediculous shots I think, plus I really really like having to adjust for bullet drop...the kill is just so much more satisfying.

Also, when I'm standing or croutched....I'm pretty sure I'm no where near as accurate as if I was prone. Like I would bead down on a guy whilst standing...take a shot..it would miss. And I was DEAD on him...yet when I shoot the same shot as prone it hits(he didn't move and I'm not basing this on blood spurt...only the dust puff of my missing shot). I think there is some deviation in there based on stance. I know everyone, maybe even the devs say its not...but I'm pretty sure there is something in there cause I have definitely noticed it on quite a few occasions. Maybe I'll try some more from standing and test it out.

BTW, the deer I hunt are L33t and dont pack uzis...but DUAL SKS!

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:53**

Wolfe wrote:Laying prone for cover is fine at short distances where undergrowth is drawn, but at medium to long range, enemies can see you better than you can see them. A guy standing at 250 yards can see you easily but you cant see them because that damn leaf is in the way.

Also, because of map design, most flags are out in the open so your only choice is to expose yourself for at least a few seconds which is more than enough time for someone to lay 2 bullets in you. You'll either die or bleed out.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with that if it were a sniper, but my argument is that virtually every weapon can be used like one.

I agree that .5 was too rambo to some degree, but that was more of an issue with the wide use of the grenadere class, crazy jumping and runnung speeds more than the accuracy of the weapons.

In .5, when being in the open for brief periods, your main concern was snipers and and armor, not nearly every guy with a laser gun. Also, the support gun was awesome when they increased the accuracy because you were fearful of them, but then other weapon accuracy was increased and now support class lost its edge.

I just think it should be much more difficult to kill a guy running full speed at 200 yards than just dropping prone/knee and firing a few shots for the kill. That is the rule more than the exception.

Dealing with under growth is tough...I always laydown on the edge of a tree on the lower ridge line to combat that. Other than that...these issues you are noticing on EJOD etc...thats fighting within 100 yds typically. Guns shoot pretty damn straight at that range. And killing a guy running in the open at 200 yds wouldn't be so hard. Thats a average shot for killing a deer on the bound(MUCH faster and harder to lead\kill)...if you have a rest(prone) and can fire a few shots...a good soldier will definitely drop a guy if he's running in a straight line. Humans just aren't that fast dude. Sure PR we don't have weapon sway so its easier than IRL, but if you have a rest its just a matter of leading him correctly. Hell its not like you stumble or fall down when you are hit...IRL you might have to deal with that first shot mess you up if yuo are running....in PR you can take 2 shots sometimes without flinching and keep on sprinting.

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:56**

I had something related to this topic happen to me ig. Kufrah oilfields, US sniper. I am lying a couple of hundred meters away from an MEC guy (I assume that he was a rifleman)
Just when I take the shot, he dives. Before I can even start moving my aim down, he shoots one bullet. Headshot.

I'm sorry, but that's not really realistic, is it?

Posted: **2007-07-19 23:59**

dunehunter wrote:I had something related to this topic happen to me ig. Kufrah oilfields, US sniper. I am lying a couple of hundred meters away from an MEC guy (I assume that he was a rifleman)
Just when I take the shot, he dives. Before I can even start moving my aim down, he shoots one bullet. Headshot.

I'm sorry, but that's not really realistic, is it?

LOL pwned...gotta love the proners...I could on hours about them. If you are a sniper though, dont engage a target so close unless you are SURE its a kill...you nullify your range advantage plus they know where you are. Anyways, this is a WHOLE other ball game and the animator Spearhead(newguy) will be working on it I'm sure. At least he can animate the guns so there isn't insta-aim...plus he should be able to alter the proning animation so its slower and isn't just a flop-shoot.

Posted: **2007-07-20 00:04**

Gold, wine and huge palace for the almighty Spearhead, if he prevents the damn instaprone-and-headshot, Ill be forever thankful...

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