Removing the SL spawn; Poll

[ReaperMAC]

Compromise. Have the following locations players can spawn:

APC spawn point
team support vehicle (CO Truck)
bunkers (CO places these)
firebase (CO places this).
Rallypoints (SL place this).

I believe these all should be put into the mod in .7.

P.S. I voted yes.

APC spawn point is being removed in .7 and if you didnt read through the thread (specifically page , that wasn't the type of compromise I had suggested Plus they are already implemented so how CAN it be a compromise? So much for being "funny."

[tekkyy]

Maybe he is saying we already have too many spawn points hence little gameplay nor realism reason to keep the SL spawn.

Oh really? Has it been decided or half-decided that APC and support truck spawn point be removed in 0.7? That'll be lovely imo.

[M.J.Patterson]

Yes. Remove squad leader spawning.

Remove all mobile spawn point spawning except for maybe the commander truck.And make the commander the only one who can move the commander truck..

Infantry do not value their lives or their tactical movements enough.

[Wolfe]

Infantry do not value their lives or their tactical movements enough.

Amen.

In v.609, infantry took a huge step backwards towards vanilla.

[tekkyy]

Remove all mobile spawn point spawning except for maybe the commander truck.And make the commander the only one who can move the commander truck..

Actually I was thinking support truck should be for asset not used as a spawn truck.

[Clypp]

Actually I was thinking support truck should be for asset not used as a spawn truck.

Agreed. APC spawn should stay but the commander truck spawn should go. The commander should build bunkers or firebases if he wants a spawn point in the area.

I'm on the fence about SL spawn. It does have problems such as a SL hiding in a CP and having unlimited reinforcements. I think this spawn can be removed if RP rules are relaxed to allow RPs closer to flags and allow 2 simultaneous RPs under certain circumstances.

[Wolfe]

apc spawn is being removed in .7

imo infantry should only spawn at bases: main base, firebase, and defensive base. Rally points are extensions of a base, so their spawn ability should be limited to be within a certain distance of the base. Beyond that, infantry should never spawn away from a base.

Right now nobody gives a **** if they die as infantry other than "dang I lost my weapon". All infantry should be fearful of dying and be cautious of their strategy. Too many infantry are just running out in the open or engaging in careless rambo tactics because... why not? If I'm going to spawn right back near where I died, then why should I care? I'll just respawn on my SL, apc or commander truck and 5 seconds later I'm right back in it.

Some like it this way but I do not. It cheapens infantry and the realistic gameplay of PR. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way in which infantry is allowed to behave, without consequence, is turning PR into BF2 vanilla.

[nicoX]

You are right about the SL hide in CP, but why do you want RP being able to be placed closer to flags?

Why not increase the spawn time to 45 sec for SL spawn?

[hoc_xfirestormx]

Some like it this way but I do not. It cheapens infantry and the realistic gameplay of PR. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way in which infantry is allowed to behave, without consequence, is turning PR into BF2 vanilla.

i only play infantry though, and the transportation situation on maps like kashan is rough. running for 10 minutes is no fun. (because the only place you can spawn is at home base)

maybe (and this probably isnt possible) we should have added time for spawning at rally points? or limiting the sl spawn based on distance from enemy cp? just brainstorming.

[Prv. Pop N Fresh]

I say keep it.

Having to run from a rally point or a main base will take away time from a player's enjoyment of having heated firefights and more enjoyment of track running. It also helps team-players by letting them be rejoin the group in an instant, and getting back into the fray to help. Others might see it as a flaw by just having the squad leader by hiding in the brush and letting his soilders charge. But thats not what Project Reality. In my view, Project Reality is suppose to be pressed on team play and leadership skills, not trying to run about 100m just to be gun down and take another 100m run. Most players would quit or leave a squad to just mindlessly kill.

In short, I voted to keep the spawn, for it give team-players the option to really play Project Reality as what it should be. I know that spawning could have a bit 'improved' to it, and that would be fine. But taking it out could be a bad move.

[nicoX]

I say keep it.

Having to run from a rally point or a main base will take away time from a player's enjoyment of having heated firefights.

YOU SAID IT

[OiSkout]

I think they should stay.

1. A lot of the time you get a bad commander. Or they are to occupied with buffing up defense in one part of the map.

2. The SL becomes more unimportant. The SL can now only drop RPs, have a pistol, and "command" the pace of the battle. But he cannot actually affect it too much. That is to say, I have had many-a-newb(and noobs) in my squads. When I have an RP up, and am dead, even with new orders to flank or whatever, they have a tendency to charge from RP to where ever they last died or the flag objective.

3. Armor on large maps such as Kashan.

Removing the SL spawn ONLY PROMOTES 4+ MEMBERS IN A SQUAD. It does not actually promote more teamwork.

Removing the SL spawn would also make the game less newb- and user- friendly. Lots of successful games have gameplay that supports both your average joe and professional player. Take Starcraft for example. You can simply mass a ton of capital ships and win against another average joe player. This is beginner friendly. Or you can have your -insert-whatever-unit-cause-its-been-done-before- wipe out a vastly superior army.

[DeePsix]

Remove the SL Spawn, you remove any Squad Combat that PR has brought to the BF2 scene. Spawning on SL promotes teamwork.

Is it realistic that you can spawn in the middle of no-where on the Squad Leader? Nope. But we might as well go no holds bar on realism and have the game uninstall and snap your BF2 disc every time you die. Remember BF1942? There was little teamwork in that unless spawning and defending the same flag.

[Gyberg]

Remove it..... sick and tired of killing people just so that they can pop back up from that ditch or bush 30 seconds later, removing it promotes teamwork since you will be even more vulnerable on your own...

[nicoX]

Remove it..... sick and tired of killing people just so that they can pop back up from that ditch or bush 30 seconds later, removing it promotes teamwork since you will be even more vulnerable on your own...

Do the SL, command your teammates to search for RP, destroy RP, problem solved.

[milobr]

A lot of people here miss the point of this mod. The point of this game is REALITY and SL spawn is HUGELY unrealistic.

This thread made me remember of WWII Online. I played long before the devs implementation of MSP (Mobile Spawns). Mobile Spawns are trucks that can deploy er... a mobile spawn.. at a certain point. Anyway, before it was made, I had lots of fun being infantry. We had to move carefully in field and used a lot of infantry tactics. We always watched out the terrain in front of us before advancing. There were cover, supressive fire, flanking. We moved in tactical spacing, tactical walking. When advancing on a city, for example, we moved tactically: someone was always covering the other.

Then it came. The MSP.

Was a bloody hell. It ruined the game. People didn't care about using tactics anymore simply because they could spawn right there in the action. Then all you see is a bunch of people spawning and rushing flags. A total chaos. It was the worst thing ever implemented in a game. I didnt play it for a long time.

And even then when there were no MSP, people were aware of the importance of transporting friendly mates. You saw long columns of trucks transporting infantry to the field. You felt good when you were on of the trucks. You didn't win more points than the soldier you were transporting, but you knew your role were vital in the attack and, when the city was captured by your forces, an OIC always said "Awesome work, truck fellas".

So that's why I'm against APC spawn, SL spawn, etc. I support base spawn (of course) and firebase spawn however.

I'm aware that the game's still in it's 0.6 version and has many things to be improved. I think the devs are working into a slowly transition to a great realism game. I'm hoping, though, that this issue can be solved quickly. It completely ruins tactical gameplay.

[AnRK]

YOU SAID IT

Headed fire fights don't occur without decent squad formations though. Which the SL spawn doesn't encourage. Plus without the threat of having to do a modicum of walking you tend to get alot of people going for the WWI option of charging at people but with the comfort of an automatic rifle as spawn as the spawn instead of finding cover and doing flanking manoeuvres.

[Wolfe]

Some people find the game boring if they're not pulling the trigger at least once every 15 seconds and SL spawns are the perfect way to make that happen. By taking away SL spawns, the infantry movement and attack becomes more tactical and cautious. So the question is...

Which should PR have?
* More shooting, less tactical movement
* More tactical movement, less shooting

I prefer the second.

[hoc_xfirestormx]

actually (and i just remembered this), dcon devs talked about a server side option that removed the ability to spawn on the sl. maybe if this was implemented, the best choice would be to leave it up to the servers?

[OiSkout]

actually (and i just remembered this), dcon devs talked about a server side option that removed the ability to spawn on the sl. maybe if this was implemented, the best choice would be to leave it up to the servers?

And you will find that those without spawn on the SL will have a significantly lower population. Unless there are only one or two servers which do that.

A lot of people here miss the point of this mod. The point of this game is REALITY and SL spawn is HUGELY unrealistic.

Um, there is a limit on where reality is no longer fun. It seems that people who believe so far into reality that if maps are 300x300km, wouldn't mind the 150km jog to the middle of the map and have a battle.

While realism and gameplay/fun/user-friendly/newb-friendly are not mutually exclusive, there is a point where it is very limited. Having multiple lives is HUGELY unrealistic. Should each player only have one life per round?

Civilians in the battlefield throwing rocks and running around doing whatever they feel like doing is hugely unrealistic. However, this is to simulate the populace's feeling. The ability to spawn in on the SL and other locations is to simulate a larger amount of troop presence.

I also would not remove APC or supply truck spawn if SL spawn is to removed. This simulates the transport of more troops into battle. Spawning at a RP or firebase is just as illogical in a realism sense as spawning in on the SL.

I do not understand how spawning in on the SL does not encourage teamwork.

Tactically, maybe. Depends on the situation and PoV. 2 squads vs 2squads combat and neither side feels like flanking, then yes, there is little tactics(without arguing any further that it might have been the tactically correct choice). Or what if I set a RP to the south of the enemy, and as we got wiped out taking that approach, the SL moves towards to west of the enemy. You can split spawn on both the RP and SL utilizing two three-man fire teams.

Most importantly, I don't think the mod will be as popular if SL spawn is removed. Sure, you sometimes don't want the noobs who say the game sucks. But it will turn away a decent amount of players. Not to mention it is no longer user-friendly or newbie-friendly. And I like the fact I can actually complete a round in an hour. I'll be damned in another situation.

I also guarantee that the noob-er population, if still playing, will present LESS teamwork, not to mention take all your teams assets and waste them.

PS - Oh I just realized another thing. The terrain(including urban terrain) as well as BF2's engine issues do not provide good enough camo or even hiding and cover.