Project Reality Forums

I once used Slams to simulate an Arty Strike On qwai- in the gov office- It was much easier to clear with the Chinese hiding with there head betwixt there legs kissing their assess good bye.

Silenced MP5 - Would help the stealth aspect of the kit, I would assume, by allowing the Spec Ops to quickly engage and eliminate enemies silently with a higher rate of fire then with a pistol. (possibly at a slightly longer range then a pistol?)

I completely argee with the silenced SMG, as I said. Would make the class very lethal at close range while still being silent, but would take away from the run and gun factor due to the lack of power at a range of more than 35 meters or so.

Just on the subject of weapons, another possible choice of weapon could be the Heckler & Koch G36C. Never actually seen a G36C with a silencer, but then again I don't work in the military or police.

But I doubt the G36C is in use of any of those countries. Too modern to fit with the MEC's G3 series, doenst fit with the PLA's equipment either, too expensive for the Militia, and I do not think the US or UK Military use these (though the UK might use them). Also, i think the leet factor of such a thing is too high. Either take the Carbines they have right now and put a suppressor on them, or use SMG's, which I would prefer, because they have a low recoil and deviation, but are weak and inaccurate at distances. (Which discourages the use of the weapon as a normal assault weapon). Plus, the MP5 fits with most of the armies except from the PLA, and a model does already exist.

Or give each country a weapon that would fit their operators. M4A1 SD for US and UK, QBZ-95B SD for PLA and, AK-74U SD (perhaps even a G3KA4 SD) for MEC.

Note: SD means suppressed.

Or give each country a weapon that would fit their operators. M4A1 SD for US and UK, QBZ-95B SD for PLA and, AK-74U SD (perhaps even a G3KA4 SD) for MEC.

Note: SD means suppressed.

Thats what I was thinking, but without really knowing much about PLA equipment or possible suitable MEC equipment I refrained from making any suggestions in regards to them. I could probably make myself look silly enough just suggesting for the US, USMC and\or UK, even though I try to do research to make constructive suggestions.

Personally I prefer a suppressed MP5, but no harm in trying to offer other constructive suggestions right?

EDIT: After doing some research (which may or may not be 100% correct) the SAS do appear to have a range of Heckler & Koch G36 weaponry in their armoury.

Suppressed weapons aren't very quiet in real life. Think of something roughly as loud as a gunshot, but a different "shape" (less sharp).

All of these suggestions for suppressed rifles and stuff are interesting but I can't help but feel they're largely misguided. Special Forces just needs to get better at killing stuff imo, tighter deviation, less recoil more 1337 kiddies.

It's high time we stopped nerfing classes to nerf types of players (in this case 8 year olds).

Kind of off-topic but how quiet exactly is a MPSD (MP5 with intergrated suppressor) using normal ,or subsonic, ammunition? (I guess pretty much like as described above?) Which then kind of begs the point, what is the point of having supressed weapons if they still apparently produce a loud sound (unless the noise is less noticable compared to a regular gunshot) when you want to elimiate a sentry stealthily with gunfire?

As I've said before I'm not involved with anything even remotely related to the Military or Police.

they would have to be subsonic for real effect and then people would come on here and complain there m4 isnt powerfull enough.

YouTube - Suppressed MP5

Suppression like in the movies is a falsehood.

Using that at night and under cover/concealment would make it very hard for the enemy to find you though.

TAW_Cutthroat wrote:Good idea sakils... but what if they get dsiconnected?

They drop the kit. Could work for both: the hostage and the hostage kit. If the hostage gets disconnected he drops the kit and SF need to find the kit, instead of the hostage. It would be fun to be the hostage and try to escape from a big house full with baddies

gazzthompson wrote:they would have to be subsonic for real effect and then people would come on here and complain there m4 isnt powerfull enough.

Actually, for the MP5SD they would NOT have to be subsonic, as the gun itself slows the bullets down, so normal 9mm ammo can be used. For all other weapons suggested here you're right.

And of coruse the suppressed weapons shouldnt be extremely silent; the main difference would be the "distant" sound. That means that only those involved in the fight will hear the gun, not everyone on the same half on the map. And it can be a bit less loud than IRL, because of the limited map size.

I'd prefer SMGs because of the low recoil and deviation (awesome at CQC), but lack of power and long range accuracy (high bullet drop - bad at anything above 50 meters). That would force the Special Forces into a more stealthy and especialy defensive (as in, holding fire unless really needed) role, instead of giving them a full blown rifle that makes it possible to attack at longer ranges. And, like I said, with low recoil and deviation the gun would still not be harmless or something. For either a well aimed headshot or for bursts at close quarters such a weapon would be very good. Not everyone will be alarmed (of course they know there is someone, but not where) and the chances of self defense would be good. If someone runs around a corner the Special Forces player should be able to take him out before he can react, but if the Spec Ops. is not careful and exposes himself to someone at longer range, he should be outpowered. That would not limit spotters or "demolition" kind of players, but would limit the use of the class as rifleman.

And that's mainly a gameplay thing. It would be very good for those using stealth and holding fire unless really needed, but it would be bad for those shooting on sight.

Blakeman wrote:YouTube - Suppressed MP5

Suppression like in the movies is a falsehood.

Using that at night and under cover/concealment would make it very hard for the enemy to find you though.

Isnt that an UMP? Not that'd matter, the same gun (just a cheaper version of it), but well...

Suppressed weapons are quieter. They'll still be fairly loud when you're right next to them but you won't be hearing them from 200 meters away unless they're using standard ammunition in which case it is much harder to triangulate the source of the sound. The other benefit is the lack of muzzle flash which also serves to conceal your position. You might know the general direction of the shooter from the sound but he won't be given away as easily when he shoots.

I know that US operators can use a variety of weapons. There really isn't an official weapon. You could give them a MK17, M4A1, HK416, AK47, MP5N, MP5SD, et cetera and not be unrealistic. It really depends on the type of mission they're doing and to some extent personal choice. However, the M4A1 or other AR15 variant is what you usually see them with.

but think about it, it doesnt matter if you have a suppressed weapon really, if you do it gives you advantage in the first engagement 'yay', but the person you killed will just "omg, spec ops spec ops" in to chat, and your screwed. Best to use the pistol when you have the drop, use the rifle when you must, but the idea is probably not to engage unless necessary or you have already acheived your objective.

Truism wrote:Suppressed weapons aren't very quiet in real life. Think of something roughly as loud as a gunshot, but a different "shape" (less sharp).

I've fired several suppressed weapons, they're much quieter. Still very audible, but it's difficult to tell where they're being shot from. Think of it like this, a gunshot is more like clapping your hands, and a suppressed gunshot is like punching your fist into your palm.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:but think about it, it doesnt matter if you have a suppressed weapon really, if you do it gives you advantage in the first engagement 'yay', but the person you killed will just "omg, spec ops spec ops" in to chat, and your screwed. Best to use the pistol when you have the drop, use the rifle when you must, but the idea is probably not to engage unless necessary or you have already acheived your objective.

Or like, knife them, right? The pistol isn't a good option if they are at range. But I should hide or sneak, right? It's possible for that to be unavoidable--as in you were sneaking but ran into somebody anyway (it happens, in real life too). Now what? You want to drop this guy but you don't want to immediately alert everyone in a 500m radius either. But he could just give you away in general chat? Half the people don't even listen to that. If they hear a gunshot they'll investigate. If they see it in chat most people will ignore it. Besides, it's more about getting the drop or staying concealed than it is about people knowing your general whereabouts which, if you're any good, change after you've killed him. Furthermore if you remain concealed when you kill him he can't report your exact location. I mean "Enemy Spec-Ops in A5" isn't going to have hell raining down on you instantly as they still have to find you in A5.

Having a suppressed weapon benefits in several common situations. Yeah, I know you can think up a situation where it doesn't make a difference but that is hardly a reason to dismiss the added benefits. I know you can think up a way to work with the current equipment but again, that doesn't dismiss the benefits.

true, but I meant, if you don't have to fight, don't, get to your location then blow the **** up or recon the position, thats what I'd do, and I think the current config to the kit promotes that

Rudd has a point with the not shooting thing. But I think that removing the full blown carbine and replacing it with something suppressed would encourage that even more AND make it easier to deal with hot situations at close range, while cutting the effective range and avoiding rifleman-like behaviour. It would give you the impression that you shouldnt even try engaging any target of opportunity because of your limited power and range, while giving you the upper hand when you're surprised, representing the better equipment and training of special forces AND the specialisation on stealth with a lack of range (of course there are special forces engaging at range IRL, but we only have one kit in game, and it should be for something the other kits dont have). And last but not least, it would be something to make the kit more unique and not replacable with an officer/engineer-combination (though I'm not of the opinion that this replacement would be any good right now either).

Spec_Operator wrote:Rudd has a point with the not shooting thing. But I think that removing the full blown carbine and replacing it with something suppressed would encourage that even more AND make it easier to deal with hot situations at close range, while cutting the effective range and avoiding rifleman-like behaviour. And last but not least, it would be something to make the kit more unique and not replacable with an officer/engineer-combination (though I'm not of the opinion that this replacement would be any good right now either).

Give him sub-sonic ammo which has a very short effective range.

I understand his point for trying to remain concealed. That's a player decision though. Sneaking is an art. Personally I like to use fire-fights as a method to slip in undetected. When the enemy is busy fighting off all your teammates who are running around drawing all their attention you just crawl in on your stomach. Having a suppressed weapon would make it easier as I usually have to shoot a few people on the way or shortly afterwards. I usually get the drop on them and can't exactly continue crawling past them as I'm not really hidden just not attracting attention to their eye. If I had a suppressed weapon I could easily kill them and have them believe it was from my allies instead of some guy who was 20m away.

Gaven wrote:I've fired several suppressed weapons, they're much quieter. Still very audible, but it's difficult to tell where they're being shot from. Think of it like this, a gunshot is more like clapping your hands, and a suppressed gunshot is like punching your fist into your palm.

I'll cede it if you throw me some links. I've only heard M4's firing unsuppressed and suppressed with little difference between the two, but I've read that typically it's only 30dB difference pretty much accross the board.

Truism wrote:I'll cede it if you throw me some links. I've only heard M4's firing unsuppressed and suppressed with little difference between the two, but I've read that typically it's only 30dB difference pretty much accross the board.

If there wasn't a difference they wouldn't bother. 30db is the difference between screaming at the top of your lungs and talking. Also, decibals only measures intensity. Pitch changes as well.