Project Reality Forums

Bringerof_D wrote:dont misunderstand me please, i agree that it wouldn't look right, but from a realism and functionality stand point it is the most logical way to do it. IRL i know how many sand bags i've filled ( trust me when you have to build fortifications you know how many you've done) i should not even need to look at the thing to know i've got 30 more bags to fill.

And by looking at this armored plate I know I've got four more bolts to put on. By stitching up this flesh wound I figure I've got three more stitches to do. It's lazy, pure and simple. PR didn't build its reputation by doing things in a half assed manner. It's not the most logical way of doing it, it's the easy way.

i dont think people are stupid because they disagree, i think they are stupid because the logic they present is flawed. If they simply said it wouldn't look as nice i wouldn't call them stupid. realism is not a valid point in this thread as a stand alone argument.

Realism is a valid point mate, otherwise I'd be complaining about the lack of pulse rifles in the game. The Logic against the progress bar is sound. Unrealistic, doesn't meet the quality standards of the mod and doesn't follow in the direction the mod has clearly been traveling in since inception.

we want/need one because a damaged FOB looks no different from a regular one. if a squad comes across one it would be nice to know if they should repair it before leaving. NO irl you dont get a progress bar to tell you, but someone who did the job last can tell you before you even get on site about how much of it is done. we're not asking for a pin point progress bar, it could for all i care be a bar that loads in 4 steps. 0/4 bar with 0-24% 1/4 bar at 25-49% etc.

So why not try and find in the system ways of doing it better? Ways of doing it that enhance the experience rather than magic suddenly popping up. Ways that are more visually appealing? People are rising to the challenge and exploring ways on doing it already and there looks to be some promise in their work.

it's one of the reasons i dont play arma. I do not need to put down my rifle to check the compass. as we can see the PR HUD compass serves as the best compromise. so why cant this progress bar be the same? just the same i dont need to pull out my shovel and try to stuff more dirt into the bag before i realize its already full.

Again, for the same reason why health bars, ammo bars and as much of the hud as possible have been removed.

edit: i forgot to mention that i support the progress bar over other visual or audio cues because it would be the simplest and of course least resource heavy option. taking ALL factors into account it's the most viable option. it wont take up unnecessary resources, it wont take up the devs' work time.

I disagree, I believe that the simplest course is to do nothing, the half assed course is to throw in a progress bar that is completely at odds with everything else in the mod, and the PR course is to investigate the problem fully and work around whatever code barriers exist. Is this high on the list? Hell no, and it shouldn't be, but I'd rather it stay in its current form than to lazily throw on an arbitrary system that goes against everything PR has been working towards.

Tirak wrote:And by looking at this armored plate I know I've got four more bolts to put on. By stitching up this flesh wound I figure I've got three more stitches to do. It's lazy, pure and simple. PR didn't build its reputation by doing things in a half assed manner. It's not the most logical way of doing it, it's the easy way.

my point proven lol?

it's not simply half assed, it's the only practical way to do it. other than having different model stages there is no realistic way to do it. THAT is why realism is not a sound argument in this particular thread "IN THIS THREAD" <can you read? in this thread means pertaining to this specific subject. of course realism counts when we're talking about weapons. dont twist my words quote miner.

it's not even an ugly bar we're talking about that pops up in the middle of your screen, it's a small short bar where your sprint bar is now. it's not an arbitrary and lazy idea just tossed in.

i dont even need you to agree that the bar is the right way to go, i just want people to stop saying that it's less realistic than say intermittent radio static, because "realistically" its no different. we dont have flickering radios, we dont have smoke to tell us irl when it's done. also wtf are you talking about work arounds?! work arounds for what? there's no engine limitation in the way of adding any of the possible options so far. you know other than the limited resources available on the engine to be used.

health bar was removed because i wouldn't be able to tell how many more bullets i can take, ammo count was removed because that is one of the things that we DO count every trigger pull for in our heads. the sprint bar was kept, you want to know why? because i know how much farther i can run. This bar wills erve the same purpose as the sprint bar and will act pretty much the same way, when not being used it will disappear.

for a guy who does this **** professionally in the army, and having a hand in the animation trade. i feel the bar is the simplest and most beneficial way to go. It gives the players the advantage of knowing damage/repair status of the FOBs without taking up resources like similarly suggested particle effects, sound effects, or other visual effects would. it certainly is not the most beautiful way but it is the most functional. this is not the opinion of a lazy individual but an informed decision by someone who's actually given this some thought beyond how it will look.

Bringerof_D wrote:my point proven lol?

I don't see how.

it's not simply half assed, it's the only practical way to do it. other than having different model stages there is no realistic way to do it. THAT is why realism is not a sound argument in this particular thread "IN THIS THREAD" <can you read? in this thread means pertaining to this specific subject. of course realism counts when we're talking about weapons. dont twist my words quote miner.

I can, but apparently you've managed to skip several pages, otherwise you would have seen the building alternatives with multiple destructive states using python coding. Furthermore, realism is a valid argument in this, i've done quite a bit of construction and I can say from personal experience just because something looks close to being done, doesn't necessarily mean it is, and vise verse. There is no progress bar in real life that tells me I am x% done building.

it's not even an ugly bar we're talking about that pops up in the middle of your screen, it's a small short bar where your sprint bar is now. it's not an arbitrary and lazy idea just tossed in.

Yes we are. You walk up to the FOB, and poof, magic bar shows up telling you its health status. We don't do it for the vehicles, we don't do it for health, we shouldn't do it for this. For vehicles we have smoking damage status, for health we have coughing, blood screen effects and the black and white. It stands to reason that instead of taking the lazy way out, PR find the most realistic solution.

i dont even need you to agree that the bar is the right way to go, i just want people to stop saying that it's less realistic than say intermittent radio static, because "realistically" its no different. we dont have flickering radios, we dont have smoke to tell us irl when it's done. also wtf are you talking about work arounds?! work arounds for what? there's no engine limitation in the way of adding any of the possible options so far. you know other than the limited resources available on the engine to be used.

It's less realistic than the variable building status that several people have been throwing around. It's less realistic than the radio, it's less realistic than several methods thrown around. It's the lazy way out. I hold PR to a higher standard because PR has consistently proved it goes above and beyond those standards, I for one don't want it to start compromising because some people think the lazy way out is good enough.

health bar was removed because i wouldn't be able to tell how many more bullets i can take, ammo count was removed because that is one of the things that we DO count every trigger pull for in our heads. the sprint bar was kept, you want to know why? because i know how much farther i can run. This bar wills erve the same purpose as the sprint bar and will act pretty much the same way, when not being used it will disappear.

People are still looking for a way to get that sprint bar removed, some have come up with several good ideas even involving vision filters and sound effects. Add to that that the sprint bar is an artifact from previous versions, it wasn't added in, they haven't gotten around to taking it out.

for a guy who does this **** professionally in the army, and having a hand in the animation trade. i feel the bar is the simplest and most beneficial way to go. It gives the players the advantage of knowing damage/repair status of the FOBs without taking up resources like similarly suggested particle effects, sound effects, or other visual effects would. it certainly is not the most beautiful way but it is the most functional. this is not the opinion of a lazy individual but an informed decision by someone who's actually given this some thought beyond how it will look.

That's your opinion, I don't agree with it. I believe that the resources are there to be used and that we should use them. I believe that the drag on resources isn't as significant as you fear and that the majority of the PR population is capable of dealing with whatever performance requirements these changes would make. I believe that PR is better than the half assed approach of throwing in a progress bar and will come up with something innovative and more realistic. That is my opinion. It differs from yours, but it isn't wrong.

Finally, Bringer, you're attitude is ****. We're having a civil discussion about how we think this feature should be implemented, and just about everyone does want it implemented, and you keep coming in here with an attitude of "Other peoples arguments are stupid," insulting other members because they don't agree with your point of view. I don't give a rats *** that you were in the army or whatever programing experience you've got, you want to get involved in the suggestions forums check your attitude at the door and come up with constructive ideas and leave it at that. You don't agree with someone? Calmly and reasonably state your points of contention as I have done. You'll find that you'll be a hell of a lot more likely to be convincing if you act like a civil member of the community, than a borderline troll.

Holy **** thats a lot of text. Anyway, I completely agree with Bringer of D. I don't see how a minuscule bar the in the bottom left corner detracts from gameplay. Also, PR DOES have health bars if you're a medic, would you argue that these also detract from gameplay? I fail to see the reasoning in trashing a perfectly good idea just because you want something more innovative. If it does get implemented, nothing is stopping you from thinking of new ways to represent the FOB's health in the future. It could just be a placeholder until the next huge patch or something along those lines. I wouldn't mind the progress bar being permanent, but apparently its too much to ask.

i did not miss portions, i simply chose not to mention that because that's simply a python work around for getting those multiple states to work as one structure. those models however still must exist and will take up resources that would clearly be better used elsewhere, in this case i am not only referring to in game resources but the devs' resources. such as time and effort.

and once more, it WONT be a bar int he middle of the screen, just like the damage status for vehicles was for a mechanic in vbf2 it would only make sense to palce the bar there in the bottom left corner. and once more you cannot tell how many more shells your tank can take or how many more bullets your body can handle, but you can tell how many more poles you need to stick into the ground before you call your work done. THAT is the major difference. As for the sprint bar those ideas have been floating around for several major releases now, they are great ideas however nothing has changed because the bar is still the most practical way to do it.

i have a bad attitude? you're the one coming in here and pointing at the status bar going "that looks stupid." i'm simply here pointing out that you're stupid for calling it stupid when it's no more ridiculous than smoke coming out of the radio. <we tend to have that stuff fixed before deploying.

also your previous post proves my point because it points out exactly why a status bar works, you can indeed see how many more bolts you need to tighten before you're done. that is why despite having the sound effects we still have the little repair icon that pops up. and same goes for rearming.

Bringerof_D wrote:i did not miss portions, i simply chose not to mention that because that's simply a python work around for getting those multiple states to work as one structure. those models however still must exist and will take up resources that would clearly be better used elsewhere, in this case i am not only referring to in game resources but the devs' resources. such as time and effort.

Which must be spent on something. I agree this should have a low priority, I in fact say as much, but that doesn't mean that other options like the python codeing should be scrapped because it's going to take work to investigate.

and once more, it WONT be a bar int he middle of the screen, just like the damage status for vehicles was for a mechanic in vbf2 it would only make sense to palce the bar there in the bottom left corner. and once more you cannot tell how many more shells your tank can take or how many more bullets your body can handle, but you can tell how many more poles you need to stick into the ground before you call your work done. THAT is the major difference. As for the sprint bar those ideas have been floating around for several major releases now, they are great ideas however nothing has changed because the bar is still the most practical way to do it.

There is no difference between the vehicle health bar and this progress bar, they are essentially the exact same thing. If such a bar was removed from vehicles, why would it be introduced to be put on the FOBs when other alternatives exist? It doesn't make sense especially when viewing everything else PR has been taking out or providing alternatives for.

i have a bad attitude? you're the one coming in here and pointing at the status bar going "that looks stupid." i'm simply here pointing out that you're stupid for calling it stupid when it's no more ridiculous than smoke coming out of the radio. <we tend to have that stuff fixed before deploying.

Bringer, I haven't insulted anyone. I've said that a progress bar is lazy, because it is, because other superior alternatives, that will of course take more work, have been presented. You're attacking the poster, I'm attacking the post. There is a world of difference.

also your previous post proves my point because it points out exactly why a status bar works, you can indeed see how many more bolts you need to tighten before you're done. that is why despite having the sound effects we still have the little repair icon that pops up. and same goes for rearming.

If this is the case, then why are there not vehicle health bars? If this is the case, why are there not player health bars? As my previous post stated, I know how many bolts to put in, so why shouldn't i see the tank health? I know how many more stitches i need to stitch, so why can't I see player health? I know how many sandbags I have to fill, so why can't I see the FOB health? The logic doesn't follow with the way the rest of PR is going.

I play alot (understatement). Never percieved not knowing fob status as an issue. If I think it's been damaged I just ask one of the guys to take out his shovel and dig on it. If damaged; one can shovel it.

Running past a fob not knowing staus is an easy fix. Check it, like mentioned above. If mortars have fallen close by, or a fight has occured nearby etc it's so easy to find out if damaged.

To check fob-status manually, really has to be the most true to life method.

So in my book, the suggestion of a bar is just an added bar with no purpose except for players not needing to think for themselves and check equiptment. A bar for a bars sake.

You can't tell (in most cases) if a radio is broken without checking it. Right?

If a bar was to be implemented, make it so that a player needs to stand inside fob and request bar.
But then, one might just really bring out his shovel and check.....

superior in what way other than aesthetics?

no health bar because no matter how many bandages you put on a guy he still has holes in him. a health bar is also a constant rather than a temporarily visible bar which acounts for damage which is unrealistic, however a structure such as a building's bar accounts for structural integrity and progress of construction which can be clearly seen. same problem arises for vehicle damage, these are not things you can see while for something like a small building are immediately apparent.

you cannot tell how long you have till you explode by counting the bullet holes in your vehicle's armor plating, you cant even tell how much mroe welding you need to do to an old piece before the thing is good to go, thats why armor plating is replaced as a whole, you cannot tell how many rounds you have left in real life without having first counted your shots. but you CAN look at a building and say how many more shells it can take and where it needs to take them, before it falls.

@mellanbror: and the bar wont appear till you are right up against the FOB, i do believe that accounts for a physical check, i shouldnt need to pull out my shovel and poke at it.

i'm not going to get all pissy over this since it aint my suggestion anyways, i just dont like it when people bash a suggestion because it doesn't match their idealistic notion of realism with out taking into account that this is a game and cannot properly represent reality without some gamey representations.

OK PEOPLE... LOOK HERE!
It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not! You don't have to have all these cool effects coming from the dadgum FOB! It's much simpler and it doesn't retract from gameplay!
Here, let's do a reason test.
----BAR----|----REALISTIC----
1.It's easy 1.It works.
to make. 2.It looks/sounds cool.
2.It works. 3.It doesn't take away from gameplay.
3.It doesn't
take away
from gameplay.
4.It's not
resource
intensive.

That's all the reasons I could think of, but so far it looks like the BAR is the most effective.
AND WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT HOW LAZY IT IS TO MAKE A BAR INSTEAD OF AN EFFECT?!?
YOUR'E SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE EASIEST ROUTE TO SOMETHING NOT THE HARDEST!