Project Reality Forums

Unlimitfai wrote:From what I saw in the text, I respect and appreciate for what you have done for the PR community and I feel sorry for what happened towards you from this community before.

Maybe I shouldn't post that Thread when Im still mad since some of the words I used seems to be making you feel offended. I apologize to you and the admin here if any of my words offended you guys before.

It's fine, I appreciate the change in attitude.

But I want to clarify one thing that is between admins and players they can take one more step. While admins decided to do a instant ban / kick, maybe they can try to find out what happened first?

When you are kicked, it is not necessarily because you broke a rule or because you've done something wrong. Sometimes it is just so you can cool off, or just so our admins can defuse a situation, or take the time necessary to understand what is happening. Situations escalate quickly, and there is a lot of information we need to process before we make an accurate judgement (such as logs, admin actions, or corroborating reports.) However in the mean time, we'd rather you be taken of the server for a few hours to collect your thoughts than to have you potentially escalate into a inciting confrontation.

Our standard response if we see users not following directions or fighting, is to kick first as a warning, temporary ban second if they return to escalate, permanent ban if they continue escalating outside the server. I have no problem processing reports, and hearing out your side of the story... but not with insults, or with a belligerent attitude.

And I think some of the players are willing to answer the questions politely instead of raging and starting to throw out garbage from their mouth. It might only takes a few seconds but it will easily work out as well just like what happened in my case. Of course, admins are busy the time they are in the server and this is not their responsibility to clarify all the facts. But by doing so maybe things like these kinds of stupid complaints will happen less often? When shit complaints happened it will probably take more of your time. And I know there are still tons of trolls and retardeds which you can easily tell the difference but I think the players in the server are willing to point that out for the admins.

Asking the players to point out the trouble-maker isn't a solution, since that can be easily manipulated with corroborating clans or collective units to misdirect administrators. The only solution is for our administrators to process reports ourselves after the round has ended by reviewing logs and ACP information.

Before this process is finished, we expect you to be cooperative and passive. If you are removed from the server, it does not necessarily mean you have been permanently banned, or that we find you guilty. Our process is to de-escalate first, and then process second. Not the inverse... the inverse is impossible, we know that by now.

We expect your respect and cooperation in these situations, not your anger and provocation.

But it's your call since you mention FCV is a private server.
Have a nice day

PS. Not a ban appeal

I will discuss your case with our other administrators, and ultimately leave the decision with Wicca. If he chooses to re-process your ban, that is his authority to do so.

Bluedrake42 wrote:
We expect your respect and cooperation in these situations, not your anger and provocation.

I totally understand that and I always try to be polite as much as I can. But sometimes anger will dominate your mind since not everyone is gentlemen. Still I have no problem with the tempban about being rude towards other player. I appreciate all the works that admins have been done but I am still confusing about being kicked even when the admin wasn't sure about the situation and without anyone reporting us. ??:

And also treated people nicely and being treated nicely made me feel better again.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Before this process is finished, we expect you to be cooperative and passive. If you are removed from the server, it does not necessarily mean you have been permanently banned, or that we find you guilty. Our process is to de-escalate first, and then process second. Not the inverse... the inverse is impossible, we know that by now.

Bluedrake42 wrote:So from what I've heard, I believe this was only a 24 hour temporary ban. However from this report, and seeing how incendiary you have been, I am going to move this from a temporary ban to a permanent one. No appeal. There are other servers for you to play on, and we encourage you to do so. However, I do not tolerate disrespectful and entitled behavior from public players. Especially ones who have offered nothing to the community, and are selfishly using our hardware without giving anything back.

What kind of de-escalation is this supposed to be? You cherry-picked every perceived wrong-doing out of his entire statement, even when he admitted a fault on his part you did nothing but give him flak, his apology to the unknown player for example was completely disregarded. Futhermore, you left the initial incident(intentionally?) unaddressed and then, after bad mouthing the entire not-FCV-frequenting PR community even though none of us said anything yet and some anger venting(I totally get where you're coming from, but that's not the point here) proceeded to up his ban "to a permanent one. No appeal.". That is not de-escalation, BlueDrake. Neither is an unexplained kick without prior warning when a player is not at fault for getting killed(if Unlimit's testimony is correct).

To me Unlimit's statement seem trustworthy enough to take a look into what happened given how he openly admitted to faults from his end, and though his post contained some anger venting of his own and misplaced language, I believe it's best treated looking as a screw up in communications between admin and player before anything else - unless evidence suggests otherwise, but I can't know that. Not knowing whether there was any merit to his story however you decided to go with "let's escalate it a little bit further, let's flame the PR community a bit" instead. I don't think it needs to be said, but for someone so demanding to get treated properly, you're very rude yourself towards others, "consider yourself lucky you're even allowed to play on FCV", "you're (ab)using our hardware","PR community is shit."(not said verbatim)

I'll grant you that you've returned to a more amicable tone a few posts later on, but hot damn, spit this venom at those who deserve it.

Maybe we feel the other feedback threads get more attention than ours, and we just want a piece of the drama cake?

Honestly though I already sent a message to the admin in question to correct his behaviour. And the player should be unbanned, if he was even un banned in the first place.

Any further post about this is kinda just beating a dead horse for the sake of it. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened looking at other threads and their "issues".

It's just that bluedrake and I have a different way of dealing with things, I do things in the background, and well bluedrake likes to be all show!

Anyway join the server, should be updated now. Just gotta work on the BR... AGAIN

10/10 for how Wicca handles shit.

Frontliner wrote:I'll grant you that you've returned to a more amicable tone a few posts later on, but hot damn, spit this venom at those who deserve it.

Rabbit wrote:10/10 for how Wicca handles shit.

Don't post here unless you are actively involved in the reports being posted.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Don't post here unless you are actively involved in the reports being posted.

This is a feedback thread though and both of them gave feedback(of varying degrees of usefulness) on matters relevant to the FCV PR server and staff.

Bluedrake, in all seriousness, why are you opposed to passwording your server? I think it would solve a lot of problems for both parties.

Wicca wrote: Anyway join the server, should be updated now. Just gotta work on the BR... AGAIN

Thank you for everything you and Bluedrake have done.

[quote=""'[R-CON"]LiamBai;2151744']This is a feedback thread though and both of them gave feedback(of varying degrees of usefulness) on matters relevant to the FCV PR server and staff.[/quote]

This is a thread I made for users to post reports and provide relevant server information. Not a place to post insulting quips or drag staff down the rabbit hole of reporting reports of reports.

[quote="PricelineNegotiator""]Bluedrake, in all seriousness, why are you opposed to passwording your server? I think it would solve a lot of problems for both parties.[/quote]

Because that's Wicca's decision. Ask him.

Unlimitfai wrote:Thank you for everything you and Bluedrake have done.

No need to express gratitude, just giving us your patience and understanding is all we appreciate. Gratitude is a nice bonus.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Don't post here unless you are actively involved in the reports being posted.

Forget about that shit real quick Drake. This is a feedback thread, if you can't handle constructive criticism, feedback and suggestions I suppose you best leave because I sure won't stop reminding you to practice what you preach and occasionally offering a few words of help and so on.

If you're only interested in circlejerking and getting told how your server is the best ever and your staff is totally super awesome and never does anything wrong, you've got your safe space over at your own forums. You will not shut me up on the public forums.

It's been fine whenever I've played over there.

Frontliner wrote:Forget about that shit real quick Drake. This is a feedback thread, if you can't handle constructive criticism, feedback and suggestions I suppose you best leave because I sure won't stop reminding you to practice what you preach and occasionally offering a few words of help and so on.

If you're only interested in circlejerking and getting told how your server is the best ever and your staff is totally super awesome and never does anything wrong, you've got your safe space over at your own forums. You will not shut me up on the public forums.

Then you won't be a part of our server, and if this continues I'll close the thread, and stop processing reports made here. You can post whatever you want... but that doesn't mean I'll participate in it. I'm not obligated to force myself to be around you, or inversely allow you to force yourself to be around myself or my friends.

I'm exhausted being treated like a fast food clerk for what is ultimately an unglorified volunteer position, that is also sapping away my time and money. This isn't a customer service hotline, and no one is obligated to sit here and listen to your woes, or be your punching bag.

If anything I would recommend going to play on the Area 94 server. I actually like Cas_ual_TY a lot, and he seems to genuinely care about the Project Reality community, just like I used to. Perhaps his sentiment will endure longer than mine, I don't know.

However in the mean time, all I want is peace, quiet, and to be around people I respect. You are not one of those people Frontliner. I could honestly care less about your experience, or your feelings, as you could care less about mine. If you aren't enough of an adult to handle that mutual respect, then don't. I really don't mind.

However I will shut you out.

And if you choose to... feel free to waste as much of your time campaigning about it as you like. You can tell everyone how much of a prick you think I am. I've endured more scrutiny and criticism then you probably will in a lifetime... so it doesn't bother me, don't worry. And now... I would tell you how I've seen that turn out for other people, but honestly... watching others throw what little lives they have left... obsessing over how much an ******* they think I am, is likely the only revenge I'll ever get.

So please do.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Then you won't be a part of our server, and if this continues I'll close the thread, and stop processing reports made here. You can post whatever you want... but that doesn't mean I'll participate in it. I'm not obligated to force myself to be around you, or inversely allow you to force yourself to be around myself or my friends.

Is this part of your de-escalation process again? First you want to shut me up over the most constructive criticism that you've probably ever gotten(and I even said that the last few responses to Unlimitfai were much better!), and, when I remind you that you cannot force me to shut up on the public forums as well as feedback being the point of, you know, the PR:BF2 Server Feedback Subforum, then you start to threaten me with a permban.

Instead of punishing me for actual wrongdoings on your server - which btw I'm fairly certain I haven't even been kicked once from, then again I can't remember every single round on every server so I could be wrong, naturally - you're starting to vent your anger on me(again, I already said others would be better targets, but oh well) over nothing Drake. Nothing. I wasn't targeting the staff, I didn't target you as a person, I did not go to your facebook, I did not go to your wife nor your kid(s) and started complaining. All I did was showcasing that a particular case on the forums here was handled very poorly by you and that you didn't employ your self-imposed procedure of de-escalating first, then processing. That's it.

I can't force you to do anything, be it listening to me, not banning me or keeping the thread open, but I would urge you to listen to constructive feedback when it's actually given here.

I'm exhausted being treated like a fast food clerk for what is ultimately an unglorified volunteer position, that is also sapping away my time and money. This isn't a customer service hotline, and no one is obligated to sit here and listen to your woes, or be your punching bag.

I understand the sentiment, but you've treated Unlimitfai very unfairly yourself.
You've gotten so much shit over the past years you should know it's not nice getting shat on, so why did you resort to treat Unlimit in such a manner? You demand respect yet you gave him none of that. And you're not giving me any of that either as we'll see shortly.

If anything I would recommend going to play on the Area 94 server. I actually like Cas_ual_TY a lot, and he seems to genuinely care about the Project Reality community, just like I used to. Perhaps his sentiment will endure longer than mine, I don't know.

You full well know I'm German. I only join US servers when the (good)European ones are full or empty, or to play with Liam and the Japanese guys. Thanks for the suggestion, but it's a miss, sadly.

However in the mean time, all I want is peace, quiet, and to be around people I respect. You are not one of those people Frontliner. I could honestly care less about your experience, or your feelings, as you could care less about mine. If you aren't enough of an adult to handle that mutual respect, then don't. I really don't mind.

I've done nothing but acting respectful, but your posts warranted scrutiny, so I did have a look. I'm fully aware the situation calmed down by the time I made my post(for the third time: I even said that) but I thought it would be a good idea to point out that it started messy, not only from Unlimit's end but also your own, and you should be better than that.

Obviously you don't think that way. Fair enough. But that doesn't warrant treating me like dirt under your shoes no matter how you feel about me.

If that truly is your idea of respect towards another human being(not just an adult), then I'm afraid you've skipped the life lessons when it was taught. I'm not even angry, I'm just disappointed that you're completely missing the point of what I said in the two posts prior and, because you're reading things into it I never said, somehow think my posts warrant disrespect. Even if they did, that wouldn't warrant disrespect towards me as a person.

However I will shut you out.

That is unfortunate. I hope you read this post of mine from start to finish and come to the conclusion that a permban is way out of line.

And if you choose to... feel free to waste as much of your time campaigning about it as you like. You can tell everyone how much of a prick you think I am. I've endured more scrutiny and criticism then you probably will in a lifetime... so it doesn't bother me, don't worry. And now... I would tell you how I've seen that turn out for other people, but honestly... watching others throw what little lives they have left... obsessing over how much an ******* they think I am, is likely the only revenge I'll ever get.

So please do.

Rest assured, I have no interest in devoting time to a lost cause. If you want to keep me banned permanently out of bitterness then so be it. I can't force you to do anything, I just hope that maybe, hopefully you start realizing that you're making an error. If not, then not.

Back to feedback methinks.

Is this part of your de-escalation process again?

Yes, it is.

First you want to shut me up over the most constructive criticism that you've probably ever gotten

Don't flatter yourself.

and, when I remind you that you cannot force me to shut up on the public forums as well as feedback being the point of, you know, the PR:BF2 Server Feedback Subforum, then you start to threaten me with a permban.

I never said I could shut you up. You can do whatever you want, as can I. I don't think you understand how much public forums cuts both ways. Are you upset because I'm not conforming to what you want me to do? If so I find that ironic.

Don't post here unless you are actively involved in the reports being posted.

I asked you to stop giving input on reports you aren't involved in. I didn't threaten to ban you.

Forget about that shit real quick Drake.

If you're only interested in circlejerking and getting told how your server is the best ever and your staff is totally super awesome and never does anything wrong, you've got your safe space over at your own forums. You will not shut me up on the public forums.

However, if you say something like this again, then yes. You will be banned. This isn't constructive, if you think it is then we're at a disagreement. I'm not here to listen to your ideas on "safe spaces" and other obnoxious social rhetoric. I'm not here to listen over how much of an egomaniac you think I am. You can continue posting it all over the forum that's fine, but it doesn't entitle you to dictate how the server is operated.

I wasn't targeting the staff

You were.

I didn't target you as a person

You did.

I did not go to your facebook, I did not go to your wife nor your kid(s) and started complaining.

You act as if that's the only thing stepping over the line for me. That's just a pinnacle example of something I don't tolerate any longer.

All I did was showcasing that a particular case on the forums here was handled very poorly by you

That's an opinion, and an ignorant one at that. From what I see, in just a few posts... Unlimitfai had recognized the need for mutual respect, had had his concerns addressed, and his ban lifted after addressing the problems with his demeanor.

and that you didn't employ your self-imposed procedure of de-escalating first, then processing. That's it.

I did, and obviously it seemed to work out just fine. In fact the only aspect of it that didn't work out, is your unwelcome input on it. Which I am now giving you the courtesy of sorting out, drawing out this report, for absolutely no reason. Which is a waste of my time.

Honestly it seems like if anyone needs a safe space here, it would be you.

I can't force you to do anything, be it listening to me, not banning me or keeping the thread open

A welcome change in ideology compared to your "cannot force me to shut up" philosophy.

but I would urge you to listen to constructive feedback when it's actually given here.

Just as I would urge you to stop giving it when I say it is unwelcome.

I understand the sentiment, but you've treated Unlimitfai very unfairly yourself.

An opinion not shared by me.

You've gotten so much shit over the past years you should know it's not nice getting shat on, so why did you resort to treat Unlimit in such a manner?

Because I don't treat respectful people disrespectfully. If Unlimit chooses to be disrespectful, I reserve the right to not mollycoddle him. If he changes that attitude, and starts acting respectfully... I will treat him similarly. I am a reflection of your own behaviors. I'm not like Wicca (who honestly none of you, including myself, deserve) who will treat you kindly even if you were cutting off his very balls.

You demand respect yet you gave him none of that.

I did.

And you're not giving me any of that either as we'll see shortly.

I am.

You full well know I'm German.

I have no idea who you are.

I only join US servers when the (good)European ones are full or empty, or to play with Liam and the Japanese guys. Thanks for the suggestion, but it's a miss, sadly.

Then as a US server, there is even less reason for you to be posting here... and wasting my time.

I've done nothing but acting respectful

You haven't.

but your posts warranted scrutiny

They didn't.

I'm fully aware the situation calmed down by the time I made my post

It had, which again... all more reason for you not to, and yet you do. Which is a waste of my time, and everyone's time, especially as a player who doesn't play on our server. Which I don't understand you expecting me to be happy about.

but I thought it would be a good idea to point out that it started messy, not only from Unlimit's end but also your own

It wasn't a good idea.

and you should be better than that.

I shouldn't be better than anything. The standard of professionalism both in this community and the surrounding industry has been historically low... pocketed by rare glints of quality people. Wicca being one of them. Rabbit being not.

I'm not going to pretend to be a quality person. I'm not, and quite frankly lucky not to be... because no one seems to get screwed over more in this place than good people. However, with that said... and as someone who isn't my father or boss... keep the judgements of how better you think I should be to yourself. The way I intentionally choose to act doesn't hinge on how you feel about it.

Obviously you don't think that way. Fair enough. But that doesn't warrant treating me like dirt under your shoes no matter how you feel about me.

I treat you at the level of respect you treat others with. Try acting a little more respectable and perhaps you'll see my patience with you improve. Currently you haven't sunken to dirt level, I think you'd find this conversation considerably more difficult if you had.

Ifthat truly is your idea of respect towards another human being(not just an adult), then I'm afraid you've skipped the life lessons when it was taught.

Don't patronize me.

I'm not even angry, I'm just disappointed that you're completely missing the point of what I said in the two posts prior

Don't patronize me.

and, because you're reading things into it I never said, somehow think my posts warrant disrespect.

I find irrefutable quotes of specific things you've said hard to not read into.

If you're only interested in circlejerking and getting told how your server is the best ever and your staff is totally super awesome and never does anything wrong

"

I'm sorry, which part of this am I reading wrong. Especially after the part where an EU player comments on a report he is entirely not involved with, to re-escalate a situation that was already resolved.

Even if they did, that wouldn't warrant disrespect towards me as a person.

It would.

That is unfortunate. I hope you read this post of mine from start to finish and come to the conclusion that a permban is way out of line.

It's not. However I'm happy to note the back-peddling. Although I don't consider that fundamental enough a change to alleviate my reservations with you.

Rest assured, I have no interest in devoting time to a lost cause.

Don't patronize me.

If you want to keep me banned permanently out of bitterness then so be it. I can't force you to do anything

A worthy thing to recognize.

I just hope that maybe, hopefully you start realizing that you're making an error.

A broken bone is an error for the doctor, not a bone breaker.

FFG wrote:Trump would like his wall back

See then there's FFG, for whom all categorical labels immediately fly out the window

Just want you to know I am not here to argue but I really want to mention one thing.

The admin kicked me without asking or proving that I did anything wrong. Especially when the truth is I did nothing wrong at the first place (no one did a report on me and I didn't lose the tank fight as well). When the moment I did not cause any trouble or chaos in the server but still admin decided to kick me without clarifying the truth, I can hardly agree that I am being treated fairly as a player in the first place.

I know by using words like dumb might not be the most mature way and best approach to fix the problem. But I disagree that I am the one who started the problem between myself and the admin.

Once again, I am just here to point out what happened about my complaint but not starting an argue.

TL;DR

You guys are not already tired of this?

Bluedrake, if you saying, that your server is private and only for your community, then set password so random people dont come here and complain about their experience.

My personal experience on FCV is always been negative, because of the level of player base. I am sorry, but its just bad. So I am staying away.

Suggest doing it for others who have bad time. No one, even BD42 will use or listen to what is posted here. Waste of space.

Good luck BD42 in your future endeavors.

The generalization of the PR playerbase you make BD42 is dangerous. Not everyone here is out their to annoy you, most posters here came to actually with care give feedback, or try to get an answer from FCV adminteam, stand up for a friend/fellow PR player or simply join the discussion. When a player asks why he was banned/whatever and what he gets back is a tirade on the entire PR community, something is wrong.

I understand you suffer from harassment to a whole other level then most of us, but going after individuals on this forum, banning members for out-of-game events on this forum given they disagree with your methods is a whole new level of wrong. It's a dangerous new way of dealing with people of different opinions that shouldn't be applied to a community as small and connected as PR.

I highly suggest to let somebody like Wicca take care of this forum thread, somebody with a less heated and impulsive temperament. As if you continue this trend it's not gonna end great for nobody. Just ignore this thread if you must, and as others suggested if you really can't take it just close/pw the server so only 'your' people can join it. But continue this line of harassment of our forum users as SA in your own feedback thread, and you can consider us closing the server for you.

Also all remind yourselfs of the rules of this forum please.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Don't post here unless you are actively involved in the reports being posted.

Server feedback is server feedback. I am absolutely allowed to post that I think Wicca is a good admin or if I think someone on your admin team is causing issue, you dont get to cherry pick feedback.