Project Reality Forums

T.A.Sharps wrote:This is why I don't want a second person when I'm snipe'n. Usually they move around too much, and get "ideas". It is kind of like all the stories people tell of when they had the bright idea to take their wife hunting, and she won't be quiet, stay still, and she wore perfume, then the biggest buck of your life walks out and she stands up and says "look!".

That's a good example right there although I think you are confusing the wife with a hunting dog meant to startle the birds / enemy to make them break cover

T.A.Sharps wrote:
Thats a bit "Call of Duty" there...
May I suggest...

Lol, you've changed Sharps.

I won't think sniper + spotters and the spotter kit in general to be a joke when there is a realistic reason for snipers to have spotters in game. Basically, when there's proper ballistics which vary by ammunition batch and environmental conditions, so the spotter is fulfilling its realistic function of spotting targets, then calling adjustments, I'll stop thinking the whole thing is Cawadooty aesthetic realism and start accepting it as a legitimate part of PR.

Right now, spotters aren't realistic and are just there because of a vague idea that having unrealistic spotters is somehow more useful to the game than having no spotters because it's tacticool.

edit: spelling, just to spell it out though, spotters are dumb and if you think they're in any way a good implementation of the rl role of a spotter, you are being le silly

I'm that noob, idiot etc. lone wolf guy. You probably saw me on a one man squad with sniper rifle kit. Before you blame me i'll tell only my cause to stay as long as lone sniper. But whatever i tell is only about me. So you may get some idea about lone wolves.

You cannot find a good sniper or spotter for your team. For example as a spotter you need to coordinate the team for exac scouting areas. But whenever i find a spotter for my squad he just acts like binocular guy. Only this! Sometimes i encounter with spotters who does not know how to laze or mark.
Okay that's not the problem. I can give my sniper rifle and take their spotter kit! Really not the problem! But they start to shoot every single target they see without waiting my word. I mean they do not wait for comfirmation if it's enemy or not! They will not listen whatever i say etc.

And the solution is easy. Just call server owners for change their rules that "sniper rifles are heavy assets to open squad and cannot be operated without spotters. Or do not operate it if you don't know how to use it"


p.s: I'm lone wolf does not means i play lone everytime. If you see me in the game with sniper rifle. You are welcome to grab a spotter and come to my pos. I may change my kit with you if you are good player. At least you may do role playing..

I find it amusing that people have all these rules and restrictions on other players using the sniper kit when the kit is probably of the least importance to the team especially on factions where everyone has binoculars. If nobody went sniper it would have virtually no impact on your team. In contrast, the HAT and AA kits have the ability to turn the tide of the battle yet people aren't trying to tightly control those kits nearly as much as the sniper kit.

Should spotters be required? No. They don't really have much of a function for the sniper himself other than being another pair of eyes; they're better off assisting armor squads locate targets.

Solid Knight wrote:
Should spotters be required? No. They don't really have much of a function for the sniper himself other than being another pair of eyes; they're better off assisting armor squads locate targets.

And why would one rule out the other? The spotter is supposed to be the squad leader so he could easily be giving his buddy sniper soft targets while being on the squad leader channel relaying armor targets to the armor or CAS squad.

All these rules that are put onto the Sniper kit is to spoon feed the players who don't have any idea what a sniper does in PR. People generally know that a HAT kill tank's and an AA kill flying stuff, but they transfer that to the sniper kit as being the ultimate anti-infantry head-shot weapon..... which it certainly is not.

Gracler wrote:And why would one rule out the other? The spotter is supposed to be the squad leader so he could easily be giving his buddy sniper soft targets while being on the squad leader channel relaying armor targets to the armor or CAS squad.

All these rules that are put onto the Sniper kit is to spoon feed the players who don't have any idea what a sniper does in PR. People generally know that a HAT kill tank's and an AA kill flying stuff, but they transfer that to the sniper kit as being the ultimate anti-infantry head-shot weapon..... which it certainly is not.

Since the radio was removed from the sniper kit in v1.0, it pretty much has turned into anti-infantry bla bla bla.

Dr_Death wrote:i still vote against snipers, marksman does the job well

But you should take into count each Kit's function:

The Sniper should provide intel to the team and take care of high valued targets (H-AT, AA, TOW, etc), while the marksman can do the same thing, but he should keep in mind that he should provide long range cover to his Squad as priority.

I found a way to fix Snipers and Spotters.

Make Sniper a Squad Leader only kit, and Make Spotter only available to a Squad that has a Sniper in it. That way the Sniper can communicate directly to the Commander and relay info more accurately and much faster. The Spotter on the other hand is bound to the SL Sniper forever. 1 of each kit Per team. Spotters role is to defend Sniper and relay info, Sniper's role is to engage and talk to Commander and Other sqauds. Give the Sniper a GLTD/Binoculars, too. The tradeoff would be as Sniper Squad Leader, you cannot set rally points.

Dr_Death wrote:>implying that there is teamwork in between multiple squads, or that somesquad would take another squad seriously on their advice.

SShadowFox wrote:But you should take into count each Kit's function

I never said it works as intended...

obpmgmua wrote:I found a way to fix Snipers and Spotters.

Make Sniper a Squad Leader only kit, and Make Spotter only available to a Squad that has a Sniper in it. That way the Sniper can communicate directly to the Commander and relay info more accurately and much faster. The Spotter on the other hand is bound to the SL Sniper forever. 1 of each kit Per team. Spotters role is to defend Sniper and relay info, Sniper's role is to engage and talk to Commander and Other sqauds. Give the Sniper a GLTD/Binoculars, too. The tradeoff would be as Sniper Squad Leader, you cannot set rally points.

You don't make much sense saying the spotter is relaying information when it is the sniper that is talking to the commander? To me this sounds like the spotter is the sniper's personal watch dog that only has to bark when trouble is crawling up on the snipers ***. This would be very boring playing the spotter then.

If you turn it around and make the spotter the SL request-able kit and the sniper can only be requested if there is a spotter SL then the spotter kit makes sense. If the spotter doesnt see the target first the sniper will poke him and say... hey check 150 degree there is a tank, and the spotter turn his head and mark it.

Also if the sniper is tracking a target it would just distract him to start talking to other squad-leaders. The spotter can do this since he is less busy.

The main problem is that the Squad-leader role is not being taken serious enough in any type of squads, and it ends up being an overloaded "ill do everything myself" role.

For example when you have a large armor squad you rarely see any officer leading it. Instead the leader is gunning or driving the tank which means he never have total free hands to check the map to see if everything goes as planned, and he can communicate with other squads.

People always went OMG commander get the **** back to main and lead in 0.98 but they hardly ever complain about a squad-leader that is gunning a vehicle or running ahead of his squad getting killed first. Now that you have 7 other members to control plus almost always 8 other squad-leaders and a commander to communicate with your kind of a mini-commander.

Now to get back to the spotter kit, even if it is restricted I doubt it will work as intended, so this specific kit is kinda obsolete like the Rifleman AP kit in its current state.

Gracler wrote:For example when you have a large armor squad you rarely see any officer leading it. Instead the leader is gunning or driving the tank which means he never have total free hands to check the map to see if everything goes as planned, and he can communicate with other squads.

People always went OMG commander get the **** back to main and lead in 0.98 but they hardly ever complain about a squad-leader that is gunning a vehicle or running ahead of his squad getting killed first. Now that you have 7 other members to control plus almost always 8 other squad-leaders and a commander to communicate with your kind of a mini-commander.

The reason people prefer to be a driver or gunner while being a squadleader is because they can put markers on targets they want everyone to engage. When they're not in either the driver or gunner seat then they can't take advantage of the zoom and thermals making them less effective when on the move.

The sniper's role can't really be simulated in PR. A PR sniper will never be anything more than a weapon kit with high-zoom and a slow rate of fire. The engine doesn't really permit hiding without burying yourself inside a plant where you also cannot see out thus making it fairly easy for enemies to simply find you right after you take a shot.

They can't really be sent on missions to take out "high value" personnel since: (1) people respawn so no information or skill is actually lost nor is communication halted, and (2) anyone can pick up anyone else's kit and assume their role. Further, coming across a HAT or AA is more up to chance than skill so it's not like you can go HAT hunting and consistently be effective.

To compound things more, virtually any kit with zoom can act as an effective scout. Hell, a crewman kit is pretty much the only thing you need if all you want to do is scout targets for other people to engage.

Last but not least, snipers in PR aren't much of a threat. If they're far away, they can easily be avoided. If you're on the move they have a ton of difficulty hitting people due to latency. If they're medium range or less they are a complete joke to counter-attacking. If you're posting up somewhere and defending, simply moving into positions he can't hit yet allow you to cover the same sectors neutralizes the threat.

To be honest, the sniper is the most worthless kit in the entire game and people ought not be concerned about how people are using it. It's a rifle with a lot of zoom. It will never be anything more than that because the nature of the game does not allow for it to be anything more than that. No amount of rules will change that either. You can force pair them with a spotter but that doesn't mean they'll use those kits for anything other than shooting with zoom. The spotter will just be a rifleman with a rope and the sniper can still wander around where ever he wants. Hell, they don't even have to be on the same side of the map. That's all that will happen with any of the changes proposed. You'll just make people pick a sniper + a spotter but they'll still use them the same way they do now.

Solid Knight wrote:The reason people prefer to be a driver or gunner while being a squadleader is because they can put markers on targets they want everyone to engage. When they're not in either the driver or gunner seat then they can't take advantage of the zoom and thermals making them less effective when on the move.

What I like to do if for example leading an APC squad is to use a jeep or a truck and scout for the armor or if it is a very dense forest map ill ride in the back and dismount when near the objective and then use my ears more than my eyes to hunt enemy armor and infantry.

You got enough zoom in the GLTD and sound is crucial for you to spot the enemy first and get the kill shot.

If the map offers enough logistic truck's ill be driving one of those as backup when the apc or armor gets damaged.

It is very noticeable how the situation awareness is weakened when inside a vehicle even with extra zoom and thermals, even worse in my experience with the new sound mod although the sounds are awesome they tend to be distorted too much when inside a vehicle compared to 0.98

Besides markers are just compass directions in PR and not very reliable so it is best to shout out a general direction followed by a distance or landmark, anyone can do that.

Urban maps with fast moving apc's like btr and lav's I do prefer being one of the drivers though since it is so difficult to keep up on foot and it is easy enough to find your targets from inside the vehicle.

I agree with you on the sniper kit though. I still wonder why anyone would fight over it since it seems like the worst kit to choose perhaps except the Rifleman AP kit.

Sniper kit should be the only kit you can request when not in a sqd, would stop a lot of complaints I think

Jamaican wrote:Sniper kit should be the only kit you can request when not in a sqd, would stop a lot of complaints I think

To be honest this would be better simply because there are times where we need room for more squads and one of those squads is "RECON" which is nothing more than a sniper and some random dude.

Solid Knight wrote:To be honest this would be better simply because there are times where we need room for more squads and one of those squads is "RECON" which is nothing more than a sniper and some random dude.

So you would be able to request a sniper kit without being in a squad? What's the point of the whole kit then? When I'm playing as sniper, I'm using markers and things to get distances and such, sometimes giving intel to the commander etc. There would be absolutely no point for the kit then but increasing the amount of lonewolf-I-Am-The-1337-Sniper players.

On the other hand, this might just work if the amount of sniper kits would be decreased in team. 50 players would have 3 sniper kits or 4 etc. etc

I don't know. Since they removed the radio from sniper kit, it really killed the whole recon purpose. You can't place actual markers about enemies whereabouts. It's a rare occasion to see sniper with good spotter. Two men are more visible than one man who knows what he is doing. Spotter is much more efficient than sniper kit.

Only one solution to stop snipers' lone wolf action.

• Make bullet drops more like "first dot 200m second 400m third 600m fourth 800m" etc.
• Make laser designator's range estimating "exactly"
• Remove range finding from markings so you may do some "real work" for example: snipers gonna need spotter. Mortars gonna need squad leaders for calculating range from map sectors(keypads)

edit: we are trying to play simulation-like game right? So making it hard does not mean making it sh*t.