Project Reality Forums

xgayox wrote:If everyone had to spawn at the main, or other place further than 100m from the frontlines, You'd see great teamwork in completely dedicated transport squads ferrying(sp?) troops to different parts of the map. Encourages more comms and cooperation between different squads.

No it wouldn't. BFV showed me just how that worked and it didn't. It would be no different from how it is now. Everyone spawns, than goes off on their own ways. Don't think just because you change the system that the players are going to change as well. That's like trying to change a pro football player to a basketball player by putting him on a basketball court. He is still going to do the same habits.

Please stop with this "its a game" argument. That is so old and tired. Yes its a game. Everyone knows its a game. You dont need to tell us its a game. The goal here is try to take out as much of that "game" aspect as possible. Im sure if PR had more animators there'd be animations for alot of the things you mentioned. The chat system? Seriously? What does that have to do with gameplay at all? And you cant possibly compare the spawning of a tank with the spawning of soldiers on an RP....

You know what's tired? The ultra realism community believing that they have an answer to fix the players. The system right now it pretty much as fool proof as it is going to get and it was done over the course of 2-3 years.

And why would you want to take out as much of that game element as possible? If I wanted something ultra realistic, I would play SWAT 4 or ArmA/OFP.

And what does the chat system have to do with teamwork? IT helps you to communicate with those not in your squad because of no VOIP.


This is a mod of a game that was catering to gamey/semi-realistic gameplay. BF2 was never offered as an ultra-realistic game, so if you suddenly change this mod to just that, than those players are going to leave.

Has already been said, but yes, not having a medic is COMPLETELY the squad leader's fault. If not his, then who's? You are supposed to be the one in command, if you cant take control of the situation, its on you. What, you dont want to kick him becuase the next guy who joins could do the same thing? Thats good enough odds for me to get rid of this guy who is currently not following my orders at all.

As far as the field dressing, if you know where he went down you can throw the dressing on him so by the time the medic gets to him he is all ready to be brought back. If you are too busy suppressing/killing, then as said, the medics got a time frame of 30 seconds. Yes sometimes the medic wont be able to get him, there are times you will be completely fucked, but every situation cant end up perfectly in your favor.

Not having a medic is not the SL's fault, it is the game and mod's fault. The medic kit is just not enticing, face it. Not having a scope pretty much limits you to close range, screwing you on half the maps in the mod. Than, how many people just feel like going around and holding the med pack for 15 seconds, than moving on to do the same again and hearing someone yell "MEDIC" every second? It's not the most enticing kit exactly.

You can kick as many people as you want and even if you do get a medic, it doesn't mean he will stay medic the whole round. They get bored of it quick. And even if you do get a medic, you get headshot at least 1/3+ of the time anyway.

And yes, every situation doesn't go exactly in your favor, which is why the spawning system you are talking about would never work or be fun. How many times have you been randomly tked? A vehicle crashed? Being shot by a sniper out of nowhere? Headshotted while taking cover?

No it wouldn't. BFV showed me just how that worked and it didn't. It would be no different from how it is now.

BFV was not a teamwork-oriented realism mod. PR is. That's like observing the behaviour of pre-schoolers in a given situation and expecting high school students to behave the same way.

Battlefield Vietnam is a game made up of Rambos who want that quick fix of FUN (in pink capital letters, and with lots of exclamation marks behind). Project Reality is for teamwork and an authentic experience - in short, immersion. Its player base is thus made up of people who care about their team and want it to survive, not idiots who only want to top the scoreboard.

That's like trying to change a pro football player to a basketball player by putting him on a basketball court. He is still going to do the same habits.

Funny, when I change between sports I usually change my playing habits, too (no picking up and throwing the ball in soccer, for example).

And why would you want to take out as much of that game element as possible?

Stop pulling things out of proportion. Are you familiar with the expression 'strawman'?

If I wanted something ultra realistic, I would play SWAT 4 or ArmA/OFP.

That's like me saying I don't think PR should have guns because if I wanted guns, I'd play vanilla BF2.

This is a mod of a game that was catering to gamey/semi-realistic gameplay. BF2 was never offered as an ultra-realistic game, so if you suddenly change this mod to just that, than those players are going to leave.

Er, yes, the players the mod doesn't cater to will leave, replaced by those it does cater to. Your point?

As for the medic, there's nothing wrong with him. I frequently play as medic and I'm happy with the guy. He excels at his primary purpose - to heal infantry - and needs no further improvement.

Oh, and:

Please stop with this "its a game" argument.

Please stop with this "its a game" argument.

Please stop with this "its a game" argument.

Please stop with this "its a game" argument.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote: Not having a medic is not the SL's fault, it is the game and mod's fault. The medic kit is just not enticing, face it. Not having a scope pretty much limits you to close range, screwing you on half the maps in the mod. Than, how many people just feel like going around and holding the med pack for 15 seconds, than moving on to do the same again and hearing someone yell "MEDIC" every second? It's not the most enticing kit exactly.

You can kick as many people as you want and even if you do get a medic, it doesn't mean he will stay medic the whole round. They get bored of it quick. And even if you do get a medic, you get headshot at least 1/3+ of the time anyway.

Let me give you a scenario-
Your moving through mountainous terrain, the enemy gets the drop on you. Two men are critically wounded and two more are hurt, one will soon be critically wounded. You have to gain this information and then prioritize healing, coordinate with combat effective squadmembers and place smoke grenades in approx 10 seconds if you are going to keep everyone alive. Throw a patch down for the badly hurt guy if you can on ur way to the guy who will die fastest, get him up and patched in cover, run out for the next guy get him back and patched, by now the other wounded are getting pretty bad, you have to prioritize who gets the magic bag heal, you probably have another 30 seconds before people start needing defibs again, find out who has their own dressings, get the worst hurt up using other people's dressings and then use the bag on the worst hurt until every1 is back up. During all this time you have to be ready to defend yourself and move at a moments notice.

WHAT'S NOT ENTICING ABOUT THAT? there's more adrenaline in that minute than in an hour of using the marksman kit! MEDICS FTW

Thank you, Rudd.

One thing that would inevitably happen if RPs went away and all players spawned at the main in an attempt to bolster teamwork is this: all the assorted guys who have gotten your panties in a bunch by not playing the mod the way you want them to play would be camping the living shit out of every road connected to the main with all manner of explosive devices. Another would be that every single map based on a carrier uncap becomes all but unplayable without major reworking (along with a few other asymmetrical maps as well). Overall, the notion of a dedicated transport squad is great but when that transport squad is about driving around CO trucks instead of brand-new Hueys, I think you are talking about a pipe dream on pretty much any pub server. Clan matches and PRT are a different matter, I suppose.

I guess my point is this: sure, the "it's a game" argument is old, tired, and quite possibly cheap. But it's still undeniably true. The fact that most major military organizations and operations are in reality over 50% logistics does not make me want to see that reflected in this mod.

I know we are goiung for realism, and I like it, but hopefully not too far. I am not sure if a real soldier finds it fun to be shot at, knowing the possible consequences. And why do we play this game?

If there was a revive counter on scoreboard they'd be lots more medics

Nah the real reason is medics take more teamwork, obviously its more then one person for a starter and like the thread says people dont care about dying generally. When you revive, to be effective you still need support from the rest of the squad, etc

Marksman however,


is left effort and immediate feedback with the only other (necessary) participant to that being the dead guy.

I noticed medics do at least get a good score now. And their first patch gets thrown down immediately but I think all of them should be no lag as compensation for being the guy who mops up

Dr2B Rudd wrote:
MEDICS FTW

<3 for medics!

One thing that people also ignore is that this is not only an abstraction of the teamwork, logistics, organization, and tactics but that its a compressing of time as well.

In real life battles last a lot longer than 25 to 50 minutes, especially if we're talking about major conflicts involving armor and aircraft. If its a crucial battle then there will be more than just a few hundred reinforcements that suddenly stop.

Seriously, it is just a game. This is BF2 modded almost as much as you can. People say its cheap to say 'go play ArmA' but its true. That game was built to be everything you guys are complaining about and suggesting. This game is built as a tactical and realistic alternative to vanilla BF2.

I'll also add that the use of the term realism is a bit whorish. Realism is in the eye of the beholder, and its always relative. You want to talk realism then we ought to be forced to wait 90% of the game time doing nothing but staring at empty forest and the have the enemy suddenly attack without warning.

In reality war sucks. I'm pretty sure most soldiers would say they hate it when they're sitting out there vulnerable and easily killed. Just sitting and waiting. Relying on a bunch of officers they can't see and a bunch of orders that don't make sense.

We ARE playing a game because anyone that wants to use their spare time to pretend they're at war is ultimately denying some of the most important realities of war.

You want players that act like real soldiers then you need to open a bootcamp, train everyone, berate and devalue them humanly, teach them to shoot their guns, and after about 8 months you can send them online and expect something similar to reality. Til then you are rolling the dice everytime you go online hoping against hope that you're in a squad of people that enjoy the fetish of war gaming like you and aren't just there to get their freak on over the new Huey.

I still stand by the assertion that the only way to make players play as a team is to lead by example. I had the fortune to play in Fuzzhead's squad a few nights ago. Random pubbies. We were in fireteams and we didn't die all that often and we regrouped and all that **** and it was fun even if we lost. Thats what makes people do what you want them to do. A leader. All you can hope to do is promote the attitudes you want in game and hope that it rubs off on people and that eventually they lead like you did.

PFunk wrote:.

I'll also add that the use of the term realism is a bit whorish. Realism is in the eye of the beholder, and its always relative. You want to talk realism then we ought to be forced to wait 90% of the game time doing nothing but staring at empty forest and the have the enemy suddenly attack without warning.

Happened to my squad in PRT battle yesterday. We spent most of the game guarding empty forest.

^^Yep we had the PRT game last over 3 hours, was very active sometimes though. Thats how I heard real battles are, terrible bordem then tons of fighting. Greatest motivator in a pub game is rushing forward looking for an enemy target thats more of a factor then death because it is just a game.


I dont know about 4 minutes but if the amount of deaths caused like three times that amount of time to be added onto your respawn that'd produce more of a inhibition. It would probably also cause people with high deaths to quit the game, switch servers, etc Because of the above, its hard to get a solution

25 deaths in a game would be 30+75 seconds to respawn & at the moment its 30+25


Post of the year goes to pFunk btw

I'll also add that the use of the term realism is a bit whorish. Realism is in the eye of the beholder, and its always relative. You want to talk realism then we ought to be forced to wait 90% of the game time doing nothing but staring at empty forest and the have the enemy suddenly attack without warning.

In reality war sucks.

Which part of 'stop saying it's a game' wasn't clear? Seriously, no one wants 100% realism. Nor do we claim this. Ranting about how horrible this thing would be if it was 100% realistic is a waste of peoples' time and patience.

It's as if I was to respond to you with a "why do you want to remove realism? A game without realism would have a 0 second spawn time, 100 000 hit points, 5 meter high jumping, infinite spawn, everyone being able to change kits all the time. It'd suck!".

Stop pulling things out of proportions. If you have an issue with an idea, tell us why. "It's no fun/100% realism sucks/This is based on BF2" are not arguments. "If you implemented this, it'd lead to roads being mined and the game consisting of ambushes" is. If you dislike a suggestion, is it that goddamned hard to simply say why?

/backseat moderator hat off

Safekeeper wrote:BFV was not a teamwork-oriented realism mod. PR is. That's like observing the behaviour of pre-schoolers in a given situation and expecting high school students to behave the same way.

You completely missed the reason why I brought that up. For 1, the respawn system people are talking about here is very similar to that of BFV and there was little teamwork in that game. BF2 was also never meant to be a realistic game

Battlefield Vietnam is a game made up of Rambos who want that quick fix of FUN (in pink capital letters, and with lots of exclamation marks behind). Project Reality is for teamwork and an authentic experience - in short, immersion. Its player base is thus made up of people who care about their team and want it to survive, not idiots who only want to top the scoreboard.

So is BF2 and this mod is building off a system designed for just that, FUN, not realism. The mods have come a long way, but the system they are talking about would never work in this kind of game and turn the majority of people off who want fun. I don't mind walking a distance to a flag if I can set up a rally in close proximity, but I know it is not my or the rest of the players an idea of fun to run 5 minutes just to get killed.

Funny, when I change between sports I usually change my playing habits, too (no picking up and throwing the ball in soccer, for example).

You completely missed that analogy. PRO was the key word there.

Stop pulling things out of proportion. Are you familiar with the expression 'strawman'?

That's like me saying I don't think PR should have guns because if I wanted guns, I'd play vanilla BF2.

I don't know what you are talking about I never said anything remotely like that, but what you just said made no sense.

Er, yes, the players the mod doesn't cater to will leave, replaced by those it does cater to. Your point?

Yea, the small 3% that would find running for minutes just to get killed, respawn at main, and than run again? There is only 1 realism mod for PR. The people playing this mod already like realism, but even they are saying that these kind of changes would be too drastic. It's not like you can just say "screw them" and than other players to magically appear from another mod and like the mod just as much as those people did.

As for the medic, there's nothing wrong with him. I frequently play as medic and I'm happy with the guy. He excels at his primary purpose - to heal infantry - and needs no further improvement.

Oh, and:

The medic needs a scope plain and simple. He is at a disadvantage at long ranges and that makes him not very enticing to play for many players. That is almost a fact. Sure, medic is good at healing etc. but you have to first get players to play the class in order to heal.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:Let me give you a scenario-
Your moving through mountainous terrain, the enemy gets the drop on you. Two men are critically wounded and two more are hurt, one will soon be critically wounded. You have to gain this information and then prioritize healing, coordinate with combat effective squadmembers and place smoke grenades in approx 10 seconds if you are going to keep everyone alive. Throw a patch down for the badly hurt guy if you can on ur way to the guy who will die fastest, get him up and patched in cover, run out for the next guy get him back and patched, by now the other wounded are getting pretty bad, you have to prioritize who gets the magic bag heal, you probably have another 30 seconds before people start needing defibs again, find out who has their own dressings, get the worst hurt up using other people's dressings and then use the bag on the worst hurt until every1 is back up. During all this time you have to be ready to defend yourself and move at a moments notice.

WHAT'S NOT ENTICING ABOUT THAT? there's more adrenaline in that minute than in an hour of using the marksman kit! MEDICS FTW

I agree that the medic kit can be very exiting, but it wouldn't happen the way you are talking about.

It is more like 2 guys get wounded, 1 gets headshot, than you run out to get the wounded, he gets revived, than a nade kills him again, you run back out, and once you finally get him back behind cover, the other wounded guy has already been killed.

You want players that act like real soldiers then you need to open a bootcamp, train everyone, berate and devalue them humanly, teach them to shoot their guns, and after about 8 months you can send them online and expect something similar to reality. Til then you are rolling the dice everytime you go online hoping against hope that you're in a squad of people that enjoy the fetish of war gaming like you and aren't just there to get their freak on over the new Huey.

I still stand by the assertion that the only way to make players play as a team is to lead by example. I had the fortune to play in Fuzzhead's squad a few nights ago. Random pubbies. We were in fireteams and we didn't die all that often and we regrouped and all that **** and it was fun even if we lost. Thats what makes people do what you want them to do. A leader. All you can hope to do is promote the attitudes you want in game and hope that it rubs off on people and that eventually they lead like you did.

Exactly. People seem to keep forgeting that these people are computer warriors, not real ones. They are not magically going to change because of an implementation, they change over time. They are not magically going to know what to do or be fast enough to do it either because they haven't been professionally trained. In the real military, even after you are professionally trained(went to your job school), you still get training on your job and practice to ensure that you know what to do.

Great SLs and teammates change the players, not strict rules.

Fearosius wrote:I say raise the spawn timer to a minute, and if you crash or get destroyed in any vehicle asset, you incur a 3 minute respawn including the one minute, plus each second for the number of deaths

Already kinda done? If you waste assets, your time goes up accordingly...

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:No it wouldn't. BFV showed me just how that worked and it didn't. It would be no different from how it is now. Everyone spawns, than goes off on their own ways. Don't think just because you change the system that the players are going to change as well. That's like trying to change a pro football player to a basketball player by putting him on a basketball court. He is still going to do the same habits.

If you want people to stop bringing up arma, then stop comparing BFV/vBF2 and PR. Honestly if rally points are seriously what makes you love this game so much, i have no idea what to say. The games are nothing alike and that analogy makes absolutely no sense btw.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:And what does the chat system have to do with teamwork? IT helps you to communicate with those not in your squad because of no VOIP.

Please, please, PLEASE read posts more carefully. I said what does the chat system have to do with gameplay. Also that problem is hardcoded, what do you want to be done about it?

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:This is a mod of a game that was catering to gamey/semi-realistic gameplay. BF2 was never offered as an ultra-realistic game, so if you suddenly change this mod to just that, than those players are going to leave.

Dude this mod is called PROJECT REALITY, and the devs have already stated this mod will NOT be right for the majority of players, and will modify it as they see fit in their needs, not the community. The mod loses and gains players every release, im sure there are people who currently think the game is too arcadey, and are waiting for it to become more honed and refined towards realism.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Not having a medic is not the SL's fault, it is the game and mod's fault. The medic kit is just not enticing, face it. Not having a scope pretty much limits you to close range, screwing you on half the maps in the mod. Than, how many people just feel like going around and holding the med pack for 15 seconds, than moving on to do the same again and hearing someone yell "MEDIC" every second? It's not the most enticing kit exactly.

My head just exploded. Once again, the medics job is NOT TO KILL. if you give him a scope, he just becomes an invincible rifleman. How does that make any sense at all? In terms of balance and gameplay?


Also, stop bringing how the game will not be fun. That is not a valid argument. The idea of fun is completely objective.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Without a RP, the defenders would just lose the flag to a bunch of nade spammers and than it would be a tug of war between 1 flag.

I thought you said earlier in the thread defenders had all the advantages in the world? Since their weapons were already settled? It sounds like you just use the RP as a fail safe tool for everything that goes wrong in the game. Random shitty things will happen regardless, that is not an excuse to include such an arcadey element in the game.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Most of you guys need to remember the whole reason why RPs were put in in the first place. They are there to stop spawn camping and give your squad an element of surprise and a way to operate behind the enemy. I don't want to have to rely on a CO to build a firebase or a CO who may never come.

I love how you talk about more teamwork here, more teamwork there, but you never seem to want to rely on anyone else but yourself and your RPs.

I still think promoting a good kill to death ratio is the best answer for this problem.

xgayox wrote:If you want people to stop bringing up arma, then stop comparing BFV/vBF2 and PR. Honestly if rally points are seriously what makes you love this game so much, i have no idea what to say. The games are nothing alike and that analogy makes absolutely no sense btw.

I am not the guy who keeps saying not to bring up arma. Not sure where you got that from, but it doesn't matter to me. And I do not just like this game because of rallypoints, but they are a huge part in creating teamwork in this game and they stop spawn camping. And no, that analogy actually makes sense, but the people who want to make everyone spawn bad at main won't acknowledge it. PR would just become BFV with VOIP. Spawn camping would return and so would everyone going off on their own.

Please, please, PLEASE read posts more carefully. I said what does the chat system have to do with gameplay. Also that problem is hardcoded, what do you want to be done about it?

I did, and you are saying "what does the system system have to do with gameplay?" It allows players to know each others movements and positions much easier.

Dude this mod is called PROJECT REALITY, and the devs have already stated this mod will NOT be right for the majority of players, and will modify it as they see fit in their needs, not the community. The mod loses and gains players every release, im sure there are people who currently think the game is too arcadey, and are waiting for it to become more honed and refined towards realism.

Just because the mod is called PROJECT REALITY doesn't mean it has to be as realistic as it gets. There is a point when it becomes too realistic and this is one of the ideas that would take it there. And yea, it is the Mod's mod, but the players and community keep it alive and if you stop catering to them, they will leave and it will just be 20 people left to play the game.

My head just exploded. Once again, the medics job is NOT TO KILL. if you give him a scope, he just becomes an invincible rifleman. How does that make any sense at all? In terms of balance and gameplay?

What doesn't make sense is how he becomes "invincible" wtf? He can still be shot just like anyone else. With a scope, he might actually have a chance at taking out an enemy shooting his squadmates from afar before he moves in to revive just to get shot or naded. If people just wanted to medic, than they would find a game called "America's Corpsman" or "Paramedic." They still want to shoot hords of enemies coming at them between medicing just like everyone else.

Also, stop bringing how the game will not be fun. That is not a valid argument. The idea of fun is completely objective.

So is the idea of realism.

I thought you said earlier in the thread defenders had all the advantages in the world? Since their weapons were already settled? It sounds like you just use the RP as a fail safe tool for everything that goes wrong in the game. Random shitty things will happen regardless, that is not an excuse to include such an arcadey element in the game.

Defenders do have all the advantages in the world, but without a CO, they won't have a Bunker, so they have to rely on their rally point. Without a rallypoint, they would eventually be overtaken in some way and than it would just be a tug a war between 2 flags. With RPs, it gives defenders and offenders an equal chance of taking or holding a flag. What determines the winner is if they find the enemies spawn or not.

The people who seem to be complaining about RPs are the ones who don't want to take the 5 minutes to take one out and would rather have people walk for 5 minutes instead to make their life easier.


And you talk about RP's as arcadey but what do you call 10 minute respawn of tanks and vehicles than? That is pretty arcady compared to real life too. So is instantly attacking an enemy. Everything in this game can be construed as "arcadey." Isn't have a respawn "arcadey" too?

I love how you talk about more teamwork here, more teamwork there, but you never seem to want to rely on anyone else but yourself and your RPs.

Have you ever played in my squad before? Of course I just don't rely on RPs, don't try to make that an argument. First thing I try to do is setup a firebase if possible and a bunker in a good spot if defending. But RPs make it much easier to regroup with your squad, attack, defend, and a place close the action.

And I love how you think that forcing people to walk or making them all spawn at a firebase will magically solve the problem of idiots ingame or not teamwork.

Rally points blow, we need 8x8 maps and 128 players standard.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:I am not the guy who keeps saying not to bring up arma. Not sure where you got that from, but it doesn't matter to me. And I do not just like this game because of rallypoints, but they are a huge part in creating teamwork in this game and they stop spawn camping. And no, that analogy actually makes sense, but the people who want to make everyone spawn bad at main won't acknowledge it. PR would just become BFV with VOIP. Spawn camping would return and so would everyone going off on their own.

You are acting like everyone who as much as whispers the word 'arma' is a complete fanboy and we are just here to turn PR into arma. As far as the analogy.... haha, what a football player will tackle everyone on the court? Right. Its not like a player has to be familiar with the rules and be drafted to a team or anything, if you really wanna make PRO the keyword there. Do you remember when Michael Jordan went to baseball? Yes he sucked but i fail to see what point that makes, and further how in the world that relates to what we are talking about at all.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:I did, and you are saying "what does the system system have to do with gameplay?" It allows players to know each others movements and positions much easier.

He brought up the specific example of being able to talk to OPFOR at will. Again inter-squad VOIP is hardcoded, what do you propose to be done about this? Its a moot point and doesn't need to be brought up at all.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Just because the mod is called PROJECT REALITY doesn't mean it has to be as realistic as it gets. There is a point when it becomes too realistic and this is one of the ideas that would take it there. And yea, it is the Mod's mod, but the players and community keep it alive and if you stop catering to them, they will leave and it will just be 20 people left to play the game.

It seems like you dont even read what i type at all. The devs are not catering to anyone. They are making the game they want to play. I'm not sure how far that is and you are not sure how far that is, but if either of us leaves, im sure it will hardly affect the devs in what direction the game goes. You should probably keep ignoring the fact that there is a mil-sim audience out there though.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:What doesn't make sense is how he becomes "invincible" wtf? He can still be shot just like anyone else. With a scope, he might actually have a chance at taking out an enemy shooting his squadmates from afar before he moves in to revive just to get shot or naded. If people just wanted to medic, than they would find a game called "America's Corpsman" or "Paramedic." They still want to shoot hords of enemies coming at them between medicing just like everyone else.

Do you seriously not get this? Let me break it down. A rifleman gets a scoped gun, and one field dressing. A medic gets a scoped gun, and the ability to heal himself whenever he pleases. Now where is the incentive in choosing rifleman?

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:So is the idea of realism.

Wow. How exactly is realism objective? Do you somehow possess the ability to altar the real world?

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Defenders do have all the advantages in the world, but without a CO, they won't have a Bunker, so they have to rely on their rally point. Without a rallypoint, they would eventually be overtaken in some way and than it would just be a tug a war between 2 flags. With RPs, it gives defenders and offenders an equal chance of taking or holding a flag. What determines the winner is if they find the enemies spawn or not.

And you vote to spread the squad of 6 thinner and send out some men to find a squads rally point, of which could be anywhere? RPs CAN promote teamwork if used properly, but currently just represent a wall of zombie rushers.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:The people who seem to be complaining about RPs are the ones who don't want to take the 5 minutes to take one out and would rather have people walk for 5 minutes instead to make their life easier.

Oh wow. You are really stretching with this.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:And you talk about RP's as arcadey but what do you call 10 minute respawn of tanks and vehicles than? That is pretty arcady compared to real life too. So is instantly attacking an enemy. Everything in this game can be construed as "arcadey." Isn't have a respawn "arcadey" too?

some of the stuff you are saying is seriously blowing my mind. How can you possibly compare soldiers spawning at ANY CHOSEN POINT ON THE MAP, to an asset on a lengthy timer, and only in one spot all the time? Hell, if you want no respawn on a potentially 3 hour long match, go ahead and write to the devs about that.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Have you ever played in my squad before? Of course I just don't rely on RPs, don't try to make that an argument. First thing I try to do is setup a firebase if possible and a bunker in a good spot if defending. But RPs make it much easier to regroup with your squad, attack, defend, and a place close the action.

After hearing that football/basketball player analogy i think its fair game to make any argument. You are constantly contradicting yourself and some simple quoting proves that. Im sorry, but you're blaming not having a medic in your squad on the game, and that makes any credibility you have ever had disappear.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:And I love how you think that forcing people to walk or making them all spawn at a firebase will magically solve the problem of idiots ingame or not teamwork.

Another contradiction. Didnt you just say if this went through a ton of people would leave the mod? The people who support less arcadey gameplay would stay and make the mod better than it ever was. I have also NEVER said i thought it would for sure solve the problem. If you'll notice a few pages back i said this is all just speculation, and would like to see a beta of some sort.