[Kit] Medic!

[TonkaTruck]

It's called a joke.

Just explaining what it is.

[gazzthompson]

its more realistic than devibs so it wins my vote.

[TonkaTruck]

its more realistic than devibs so it wins my vote.

No it's not. This is actually less realistic. =|

[gazzthompson]

No it's not. This is actually less realistic. =|

link me to a soldier using defibs , or carrying defibs in the field.

[M.Warren]

Good work, might I have a moment of your time for some suggestions?

If it is still being tweaked and worked on, I would have to say to slow down the "Resuscitate" animation. For the seasoned Medics out there we're already used to it taking like 1-3 seconds to ready a bandage and toss it to shake the body free. So taking the extra step to make it appear more authenic would certainly be welcomed.

To the best of my knowledge and being slightly familiar with first aid myself, an adult would take 5 compressions and 1 breath every cycle. (There are several different approaches to CPR, however this is for example purposes.) To do a full 5 compressions would take about 3-4 seconds ending with a breath. The current compression speed seems quite rapid though, especially even for a child which is almost twice the speed of an adult while performing "Resuscitation".

So adjusting the "Resuscitate" animation and stretching it across a span of 3-4 seconds would not only be visually appealing, but also realistic. Besides wounded soldiers can remain reviveable for 60 seconds, so it's safe to say there'll be an abundance of time to perform these actions. Providing you're not getting shot at, but that's what teamwork is for.

Also, please see if we can work on the "Epipen" deployment pose. After the caps are removed it appears like the Medic is about to karate chop the guy back to life. Maybe the placement of the hands in a more "delicate physician" approach would be in order. Afterall, the guy you're getting up has already had a bad day.

As for the replacement of the verbal emote "Clear!" seeing as we're using the Epipen, maybe we can get [R-DEV]JaymzN to work on the standard BF2 sounds. Like the old "Hold on, i'm recharging!" sound and just crop it so the medic simply says "Hold on!" rather than what was previously for the defibrillators. Maybe we can also attach the "Hold on!" verbal emote to the "Resuscitate" ability as it currently appears that it does not have any voice command. An additional verbal emote can only help the situation.

I want to apologize if it seems like I'm always critisizing the new content. But it's probably best to offer opinions and perspectives now as it's still being worked on rather than later and established in game.

But yes, I think you guys did a fantastic job already. Glad to see that the 2nd Medic slot has finally been filled up with something, brilliant idea. This should promote some really intresting dynamics and a fresh new approach on the Medic class, well done.

[TonkaTruck]

Zoll Defibrillator Products for the Military Market - AED for Military Healthcare (Website for military AED products)


Sadly, google isn't turning up images. It might be due to the fact that noone is taking pictures in the middle of a code in progress.
Chances are, you'll find products that are made for going in the field.

[TonkaTruck]

Good work, might I have a moment of your time for some suggestions?

If it is still being tweaked and worked on, I would have to say to slow down the "Resuscitate" animation. For the seasoned Medics out there we're already used to it taking like 1-3 seconds to ready a bandage and toss it to shake the body free. So taking the extra step to make it appear more authenic would certainly be welcomed.

To the best of my knowledge and being slightly familiar with first aid myself, an adult would take 5 compressions and 1 breath every cycle. (There are several different approaches to CPR, however this is for example purposes.) To do a full 5 compressions would take about 3-4 seconds ending with a breath. The current compression speed seems quite rapid though, especially even for a child which is almost twice the speed of an adult while performing "Resuscitation".

So adjusting the "Resuscitate" animation and stretching it across a span of 3-4 seconds would not only be visually appealing, but also realistic. Besides wounded soldiers can remain reviveable for 60 seconds, so it's safe to say there'll be an abundance of time to perform these actions. Providing you're not getting shot at, but that's what teamwork is for.

Also, please see if we can work on the "Epipen" deployment pose. After the caps are removed it appears like the Medic is about to karate chop the guy back to life. Maybe the placement of the hands in a more "delicate physician" approach would be in order. Afterall, the guy you're getting up has already had a bad day.

As for the replacement of the verbal emote "Clear!" seeing as we're using the Epipen, maybe we can get [R-DEV]JaymzN to work on the standard BF2 sounds. Like the old "Hold on, i'm recharging!" sound and just crop it so the medic simply says "Hold on!" rather than what was previously for the defibrillators. Maybe we can also attach the "Hold on!" verbal emote to the "Resuscitate" ability as it currently appears that it does not have any voice command. An additional verbal emote can only help the situation.

I want to apologize if it seems like I'm always critisizing the new content. But it's probably best to offer opinions and perspectives now as it's still being worked on rather than later and established in game.

But yes, I think you guys did a fantastic job already. Glad to see that the 2nd Medic slot has finally been filled up with something, brilliant idea. This should promote some really intresting dynamics and a fresh new approach on the Medic class, well done.

That CPR process is for one person child CPR and isn't recommended anymore.
I still say that the EpiPen needs to changed to the defibrillator.

[gazzthompson]

Zoll Defibrillator Products for the Military Market - AED for Military Healthcare (Website for military AED products)


Sadly, google isn't turning up images. It might be due to the fact that noone is taking pictures in the middle of a code in progress.
Chances are, you'll find products that are made for going in the field.

thats a large piece of kit, i have NEVER seen any 1 carrying that in the field, have you ? isnt priatex a medical blackhawk pilot ? he might be able to shed some light.

[gazzthompson]

double post FTW


i think some one should contact a DEV MA to shed some light on this, something like this i would image would of had input from a MA

[TonkaTruck]

Coast Guard Aviation-Based Medical Services

It's Coast Guard aviation, it may not apply to this. But they have state they carry field AED's as part of a basic medical bag.

Also, there are other AED's on that website, not just that huge one that is there. I've seen AED's that are very light and small and are made to be carried around in a med bag.

Point of the matter is, EpiPen is not realistic at all when it comes to the CPR process.

[gazzthompson]

Coast Guard Aviation-Based Medical Services

It's Coast Guard aviation, it may not apply to this. But they have state they carry field AED's as part of a basic medical bag.

Also, there are other AED's on that website, not just that huge one that is there. I've seen AED's that are very light and small and are made to be carried around in a med bag.

Point of the matter is, EpiPen is not realistic at all when it comes to the CPR process.

im very sure that they would carry defibs in choppers, im sure the military choppers carry defibs, we talking ground personal, frontline soldiers, combat medics.

[TonkaTruck]

I'm sure they would. The only problem I see is room. I wouldn't want to be touching the patient when the shock is given.

The main point is, if you're going to feature chest compressions and CPR, you have to include the AED. Don't throw in a drug that isn't being used properly in the first place and say that it revives them. It makes much more sense for the AED to restart the heart.


Now in real-life. Combat Medics may or may not carry them. If a person dies from a gunshot wound, there is very little chance of bringing them back with CPR anyways. Chances are they've gone into shock and they're bleeding out on the inside.

BTW.
U.S. Medicine Information Central

To quote
"The students who are training to be line medics with either an infantry or a combat unit will carry an aid bag. "We've added some additional equipment in there or medications and dressings because of their ability to now be able to do pain management, which is utilizing morphine, IV solutions, to restore volume in the body to control shock, and then just different types of airways to do that," Lt. Col. De Jesus advised. "As they move up on the echelons of care, then their equipment expands from an AED [automatic external defibrillator], which are the paddles to revive a soldier or a patient who is in cardiac arrest, and you'll find that in the ground ambulances and at the battalion aid station and the forward support medical companies, and then once you've arrived to an aid station or a forward support medical company, then you have what we call medical equipment sets, which then have a whole range of medical instruments to be able to do trauma treatment.""

[TonkaTruck]

Equipment Bags & Packs: Stat PacksEquipment and Medical Bags

UH-SPEB015: Stat Packs Stealth [1033 Series]


This is another equipment site I found.
Chinook Medical Gear, Inc. - Site Map

[chimpyang]

Defibs arn't that big or difficult to use, you find the british heart foundation giving automatic ones out to busy places like shopping centers in case they need to shock someone's heart. The whole point of it is to shcok the electrical systems of the heart, overloading it so that the pacemaker cells have a chance of regaining control. The syncytial nature of the heart means that fibrillation occurs if one cell goes out of step with the rest (all the cells have the potential to generate their own beat). Still, defibs are not a cure all, and you certainly wouldn't be up and running straight afterwards (the pain...), adrenaline would allow the person to keep their mind off the pain, until they are patched up properly.

The animations look amazing and the chest compressions are an excellent idea for the stuck body problem. Good work!

[TonkaTruck]

Defibs arn't that big or difficult to use, you find the british heart foundation giving automatic ones out to busy places like shopping centers in case they need to shock someone's heart. The whole point of it is to shcok the electrical systems of the heart, overloading it so that the pacemaker cells have a chance of regaining control. The syncytial nature of the heart means that fibrillation occurs if one cell goes out of step with the rest (all the cells have the potential to generate their own beat). Still, defibs are not a cure all, and you certainly wouldn't be up and running straight afterwards (the pain...), adrenaline would allow the person to keep their mind off the pain, until they are patched up properly.

The animations look amazing and the chest compressions are an excellent idea for the stuck body problem. Good work!

If they changed the name of the EpiPen to Morphine, and changed the process to

Compressions/Breaths
Shock
Give Morphine (Without it, the healing process from the bag wouldn't work)
Medbag.

Maybe the BF2 engine can do that.

[Pvt_Parts]

First off, those changes look great... if those changes are not a lie. Myself and others really appreciate the hard work/sacrifice devs put in. However, devs have been vanilla-ish about their updates lately, so this could be another lie/joke. No complaints about me or others not trusting your "dev journal" entries anymore; You produced a series of progressively frivolous and deceitful "announcements", so the level headed of the boards would realize that the journals are as trustworthy as a random homepage rather than the printed encyclopedia level it was before. No malice; just mean its hard to trust anything said anymore.

@TonkaTruck: Hello!? Are you forgetting about the realism of heart attack causing bullets? Bullets don't kill by stopping your heart (well, a shot to the heart does, but then your dead). Usually you die from bleeding out or organ damage. In the field, that would mean you are dead unless the medic has some blood (the right kind) and an IV.


BF2 is supposed to take place ~10yrs into the future, right? As of 3 years ago, we already had nanoprobes that could identify cancer cells in a petri dish and modify their DNA to make them glow. These injections could be a cocktail of a) a coagulant, b) vaso-restrictor, c) antibiotic, d) nanoprobes programmed to (partially) repair certain tissues (critical organs and arteries)

And a stimulant of some sort could help motivate the soldier to keep going. (Have you ever had a large does of adrenaline/epinephrine? I was given it several times in my childhood to keep me from dying from severe asthma attacks: you suddenly have a burst of jittery energy and feel like your heart will leap from your chest. And for weight loss, I was once given Tenuate Dospan (sp?), essentially Rx speed, and I found it impossible to hold still.

The realism of it? The big concern in military research at the moment (at least from what the public is told) is less about offensive tech and more about soldier survivability. There are evolutionary improvements on the horizon for cpu power/size, solid-state storage size/speed, and compact power cells. Those could very well drag the "almost there" nano-medicines into use within the next decade.

On the other hand, I guess medics could always just have tweezers in one and and a red hot poker in the other.

And to restate it, despite not trusting the habitual pranksters, respect/appreciation to the devs.

[waldo_ii]

You guys seem to be confusing "Dead" with "Critically wounded."

When you shoot someone in the head, they are dead. You cannot "revive" them.

In this game, usually you do not "die." You are usually "critically wounded." It was my belief that if someone is wounded, you can use adrenaline to give them a burst of energy, to get them going. That is what it looks like to me in the video. You aren't bringing a dead person back to life, you are bringing a nearly-dead person back to consciousness.


The "chest compressions" are just there to unstick the person from the ground, replacing field dressings.

[TonkaTruck]

@TonkaTruck: Hello!? Are you forgetting about the realism of heart attack causing bullets? Bullets don't kill by stopping your heart (well, a shot to the heart does, but then your dead). Usually you die from bleeding out or organ damage. In the field, that would mean you are dead unless the medic has some blood (the right kind) and an IV.

Of course I already know that. What I'm saying is though, if you're going to simulate CPR, include the AED like we already have it.

[Masaq]

Good work, might I have a moment of your time for some suggestions?

If it is still being tweaked and worked on, I would have to say to slow down the "Resuscitate" animation. For the seasoned Medics out there we're already used to it taking like 1-3 seconds to ready a bandage and toss it to shake the body free. So taking the extra step to make it appear more authenic would certainly be welcomed.

To the best of my knowledge and being slightly familiar with first aid myself, an adult would take 5 compressions and 1 breath every cycle. (There are several different approaches to CPR, however this is for example purposes.) To do a full 5 compressions would take about 3-4 seconds ending with a breath. The current compression speed seems quite rapid though, especially even for a child which is almost twice the speed of an adult while performing "Resuscitation".

Absolutely not. Your information is seriously out of date, and if you still require a first aid certificate for any kind of formal work you do, you desperately need to get it updated.

Current guidelines recommend 30 compressions to 2 breaths; if you're giving a breath every 5 compressions you're wasting valuable time trying to pump more oxygen into the body when there's enough in the blood to be going on with.



-----------------


Right, on the subject of of the EpiPen:

It's not perfect, it's not the proper use of adrenaline, which should be IV... but it'll do.

It's to represent the combat medic giving emergency aid and patching the solider up well enough that he's no longer immediately about to die. It's a representation, a metaphor, just like the defib is.



I've seen defibrilators used in practice on patients having a genuine cardiac events (as opposed to unconciousness as a result of hypovolumic shock), and I can assure you that they don't have anything like the 100% success rate that BF2 gives them. It's horrifically unrealistic to have shock paddles that can bring anybody back to life.

This is a WIP that's meant to be an improvement over the current system and it is!

[Sgt.Sheep]

Apart from whether it is realistic or not, I like the Medic-Update a lot.
This makes the medic class more interesting.

Like many others have said, the "Resuscitate" animations seem a bit too fast.
(Well, an actual CPR seemed slower the last time I did one irl)

Awesome work Devs!