Project Reality Forums

Double post but some tactics please...no wonder we are making such as fuss..were dying all the time running head on against the enemies fortified position

Is it likely that we'll see any changes to the RP system in .9?

'[R-DEV wrote:CodeRedFox;994472']Rallying/Spawning at a RP

• All current rules apply except
• Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn [OR]
• Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

I really like your idea CRF, but I think Okita and Cyberzomby raise some good points. I dislike having the SL as a requirement for spawning because it basically turns rallypoints into a complicated form of SL spawn. Also, the SL could just sit back and enable respawn while the rest of his squad advances (much like the old SL spawn).

A better option, I believe, would be to simply require a certian number of squad members near the rally to enable respawn. I think requiring 2 SMs close to the rally would be best, because a requirement of 3 would probably lead to many squad being "routed" back to base. True, squads could still camp their own rally with two guys to enable respawn, but that would reduce their fighting strength by 1/3rd.

Cpt. Trips wrote:Is it likely that we'll see any changes to the RP system in .9?

It wont be added or announced until we've internally talked about how, when, why, and why not it will work. As soon as we feel we found a system that works I'm sure you will all hear about it.

Charity Case wrote:raise some good points. I dislike having the SL as a requirement for spawning because it basically turns rallypoints into a complicated form of SL spawn.

Yeah I agree as well. Removing the baby sitting yet encouraging "falling back" is my ultimate goal which I think will solve a majority of problem.

Not going into details how the rally points and spawn system should be changed I would like to point out some analogies with the respawning system and real life.

With the spawn ability you will never actually die. In game "dying" is something relevant for getting more or less seriously injured. It would be natural to think that in such case you are send back from the front line to recover. In the game world you always will recover by respawning if there is such a system. And in real life when you are recovered you will go back to the front and join your unit.

Now you can think how far from the front line that recovering should happen. If it is at the rally point it is basically at the front line, if is at the FOP it is more or less at the near distance, and if it is at the base it resembles far distance.

The nuisance of respawning is elementary for your will to stay alive in the game world, but as it is a game making it too hard will frustrate people off from the game. You can't never satisfy everybody and can only seek best balance for the goals you value most.

What comes to squad spawning in form or other it will certainly benefit squad cohesion but at the same time will cost for teamwork in wider aspect - what you gain at one end you will loose in the other end. I've seen countless times FOP's been made and then forgotten while the squads are spawning at the rally points. At the end the team will usually first loose the FOP no-one guarding and then the RP's one by one - not something you would expect from well organized military outfit, even in the game.

I muchly like games like ARMA or operation flashpoint 2, when they are bugfree that is and the netcode is fine. The more PR becomes like ARMA the better for me, even though I have grown to accept that there wont be maps of the size where being on foot means you are 2 hours away from the frontline and not just 15 min of rush/recharge.
As much as I like arma though there needs to be a balance between realism die and stay dead gameplay and respawn time.
As long as we do not have 400 players on each side the respawn also simulates a sufficient number of soldiers appropriate for the scenario. Therefore a 1 min spawn timer is aright, simulating soldiers trying to fill in the gaps from areas that are not as hot right now.

One suggestion about RP's really caught my eye. And this is my view on it.

Rally Points are a metaphor for grouping up before an assault right? What about setting a timer on the RP to one minute and let all your fallen squad members regroup at the same time. You'll only be able to use this once every two and a half minutes. And make it possible for the SqL to create the RP by himself.

This way if your squads leader gets killed in action you need to respawn on a FB or MB. This will nerf the RP to a better use instead of removing them completely. They wont be used as often but they will be useful when you need them.

Wattershed wrote:One suggestion about RP's really caught my eye. And this is my view on it.

Rally Points are a metaphor for grouping up before an assault right? What about setting a timer on the RP to one minute and let all your fallen squad members regroup at the same time. You'll only be able to use this once every two and a half minutes. And make it possible for the SqL to create the RP by himself.

This way if your squads leader gets killed in action you need to respawn on a FB or MB. This will nerf the RP to a better use instead of removing them completely. They wont be used as often but they will be useful when you need them.

A brilliant idea. Though I don't understand why make it more complicated than necessary.
Keep it exacly as it is. The only difference is that the SL can issue "whole squad spawn" thing at rally (or all those that area dead) like once every 10 minutes +. It wouldn't be possible to spawn at the rally in any other way.
And ofcourse this thing would be reloading all the time, as soon as its used.

Otherwise people have to spawn at FB or MB.

Entering a little bit late, but RP's were always meant to simulate reinforcements entering the battlefield, right?

At the moment the problem isn't that the player is able to re-enter play too quickly, it's they they are able to re-enter play at too convenient a location and thus combat too quickly - when did reinforcements ever get to bypass maneuvering into position, evading any enemies along their advance in order to regroup? There should never be a situation where replacements are able to join an assault going on 100m away from their RP because RPs simulate lines of reinforcement, which by their nature need to be at hardpoints where reinforcements are kept, or at the edge of the AO where they enter.

The solution? RPs can only go up within 25m of the "no go" zone around the map or within 50m of a friendly flag. If someone now dies, they aren't going to alt tab, because there screen is only black for 20 or 30 seconds, then they need to traverse ground on their own (nerve wracking) to link back up with friendly elements, or they are spawning on designated "friendly" territory that cannot be near an assault and are predictable enough to be consistantly stormed by good enemies.


Right?

keep the rally points.
rally makes squads working together.
bring back the street map just a little bigger and add no respawn mode in it.
if you want fear play the streetmap with deathmatch-mode.

i agree to increase the respawn time.somehow linked your deaths/teamwork points.
maybe rally should be somehow limited that you can spawn only fewtimes from it.

Hello guys
Im new to this forum, I do play PR for ages.
I read all the thread and made some homework:

[R-DEV]Deer
If there would not be rallypoints, 90% of players would solo and spawn to firebase/main. Spawning is the ONLY factor that keeps 90% of players doing teamwork. With squad leader spawnpoint gameplay for players like that was working extremely well, every monkey and turtle did teamwork no matter what was going in their heads. Squads needed only 1 person to make the squad a good squad who followed commander's/squadleader's orders, but now with rallypoints game got alot harder and thats why teamwork is not working so well anymore, now you need 3 non-monkeys as squad members to get the squad's spawnpoint and teamwork working.

atshii
Wouldn't taking out RPs be basically what insurgency teams are now using? (albeit insurgents have easier time making hideouts when compared to firebases)The teamwork and VOIP use are in my experience much lower with insurgents, when compared to the opposing team using RPs. Taliban faction with RPs sees more teamplay also, so the RPs seem to have a big role for making teamplay valuable.

Yes, we definitly need RPs.

[R-DEV]CodeRedFox
Rallying/Spawning at a RP
* All current rules apply except
* Respawning needs the SL in (X) distance from RP to respawn
* Respawning needs all or 3 member in (X) distance from RP to respawn

Ondskan
Rally Points are a metaphor for grouping up before an assault right? What about setting a timer on the RP to one minute and let all your fallen squad members regroup at the same time. You'll only be able to use this once every two and a half minutes. And make it possible for the SqL to create the RP by himself.

Above is how they should IMHO work (choose, i like both ideas)

Also alex 6714 and fuzzy and victor_phx wrote things i like:

Firebases can only be built withing a certain radius of a friendly flag, and that spawn disappears when the flag is taken of the radius with which the firebase is in, or a certain number of enemy are withing a short distance to it. Would probably need to vary map depending. No longer can trucks get past the frontline and somehow build a firebase in your own territory 3 flas away from the fight zone, just to camp. (Muttrah and the docks are a prime example of this). You are also setting up base as you move further along the front, not random ones all over the map.

[R-DEV]fuzzhead
Idea #3 - Rallypoints can only be deployed with 200m radius of a firebase.

victor_phx
I was wondering... what if Rally Points are available to be set only in the Forward Outpost surroudings? That way, the team would have an extra stimulus to build assets in the most valuable areas and attacking an enemy position would need a lot more planning and caution!

Question now:
how if we leave all the rules the same as now, except... while you spawn at RP, you can spawn ONLY as a regular infantryman with a rifle WITHOUT scope? It will "punish" you a lot and you will think twice before Rambo-style attack. And also it will keep temaplay and medics important. And also there will be no alt-tabing/grabing food/making excercises etc
However medics shoudnt have the GOD power to revive and yes, headshots should be back.