Project Reality Forums

I was on a co-op server a while back that had 82 players.

Hfett wrote: I never tough about this before, but this lack of infantary squads started being more frequent after 2 changes:
One was the replacement of Light Vehicles (humvees, vodnicks, etc...) for Apc's
And the other were the Rally points changes

Spot on. PR will never reach the fantastic insquad teamwork we had in 0856. You forgot one as big factor: the scope spawnable lmg making lonewolfes able to wtfbbqpwn whole squads easily if they move together, inducing even more lone wolfing and reducing need for teamwork. Had lmgs been as good irl as in PR, soldiers would use nothing but lmgs.
In 0856 it was all squad vs squad battles with squads moving as organic groups and non-squad lonelys was nothing to count for. It was all about the squads, flanking and yelling out directions.
Nowadays you rarely get that organic feeling. Camping with lmgs get you sky high kd-ratio. It's about who got the best fob builders so that lemmings infantry can spawn and cap flags by shear numbers. It's every man for himself. The cobra pilots have fun though...

Hfett wrote:That is why you see much more Infantary combat on Insurgency maps, where usualy the squad have a Humvee instead of depending on APC's like it happen on almost all AAS maps.

I never tough about this before, but this lack of infantary squads started being more frequent after 2 changes:
One was the replacement of Light Vehicles (humvees, vodnicks, etc...) for Apc's
And the other were the Rally points changes


I still remember how many Inf squads we had when Humvees respawned on Firebases

The third change wasn't a direct gameplay change but a shift in the direction of the mod. Maps are bigger and have more toys to make them feel more lived in. People used to loathe kashan because there was no infantry, but now that's kind of the norm.

I do heartily agree that the rally point beta might have brought us away from vbf2 behavior, but one of the points that was overlooked or ignored was that there are a LOT of infantry in vbf2 because the hike to the fight was always short.

I think people should start moving away from armor squads, and start hosting mech inf squads. Without mumble this is the only way for an APC to effectively support the inf. However, every time I host a MECH INF squad the admins and the armor players rage :/

mat552 wrote: I do heartily agree that the rally point beta might have brought us away from vbf2 behavior, but one of the points that was overlooked or ignored was that there are a LOT of infantry in vbf2 because the hike to the fight was always short.

I think the opposite. The removal of the rally as respawn place brought us closer to squadless vBF2 chaos, but without the speed. You are overlooking one thing. The reason there is so much infantry in BF2 is that at for example Karkand there is only 3 armor players and 29 infantry at any given moment. This was also the case for maps like Op Ghost Train and their likes. Even at armor maps like Al Kufra Oil Fields there were only at most 6 players tied up in armor and the rest infantry.

I think it was a mistake to add so many armor assets to the maps with the way everything is ALREADY crippled by not being able to host more than 64 player games.

Good thread, many good posts that highlight problems that have been creeping into the game.

I prefer INF squads that use stealth. If there are a lot of L337 noobs out there, fight back! Ensure your foot patrol has the right equipment. SL,MEDIC, HAT or LAT(depending on the armor situation dictated by the map), SPECIALIST(if an urban seeting). If you have guaranteed CAS, and can get re-supply, everyone but SL and MEDIC should just be riflemen. PERIOD. If you know that you can get a resupply from a chopper, then you know you can get any kit you need at that point. Squad leaders: you must KICK "L337" players who grab the sniper kit, etc. without authorization from your squad. I routinely play MEDIC these days....and, in a good game, my score, whether our side wins or loses, is usually within the top 5....

For every bonehead out there playing with a new toy(sometimes that's me!:mrgreen , there's a focused player who will kick his ***(SOMETIMES, that's me!:mrgreen

Try ALL of the kits in co-op, find their strengths and weaknesses, then you'll know what's appropriate.

Stay frosty gents, just like the chalkboard says...




Bazza

Good to see lots of feedback. If you do agree that there has been a lack of INF squads... what things can be done to solve this problem??

HileMighClub wrote:Good to see lots of feedback. If you do agree that there has been a lack of INF squads... what things can be done to solve this problem??

*Unmake the lmg spawn able. (Add medic scope spawnable?)
*Remove lmg scope
*Remove rally expire timer or enlenghten it
*Increase LAT count
*1 sniper per team

There need to be a incitement for players to move as a group and fight as one. Fighting in group have to lead to more kills etc than lonewolfing. Group infantry warfare has to be decisive and so on. As it is now, it is not certain that group team play will get you the kills etc that the Average Joe wants. The Average Joe doesn't want role playing. He wants to crush the opponents. If that doesn't require teamplay he wont bother. He'll grab a lmg and camp a roof to get kills instead of moving with the group and take objectives.

There need to be carrots not limits.

bringing back the rally would be a step backwards. if you want more infantry there has to be less assets(attack choppers/tanks/apc's) and more troop transport (ie hmmwv's and troop transport trucks).
....i rather have less assets and shorter vehicle respawn times with lots of infantry than a lot of assets and long vehicle respawn times with hardly any infantry.....

in wanda shan i have seen this problem.
i think that maybe in big maps where is lot of assets,there is lack of inf squads

The last 3 squads here in addition to mine were infantry squads, so I wouldn't say there are a lack of them on Walka Shan specifically.



The primary layer without transport choppers is horrible for infantry though.

A big problem also is that the existing infantry squads left on the map are not adapting!
When the enemy got two tanks, 2 ifv, 1 apc, 1 attack chopper you simply can't go around with an infantry squad that has following lineup: Officer, medic, riflemen, specialist, lmg, riflemen. What do you think you will accomplish?!

The remaining infantry squads need to see themselves as cheap assets hunter. Now when their is fewer infantry squad their exist no reason at all to not utilise a limited kit. Every squad need to have atleast a LAT, and HAT or anti-air would also be good.
Infantry need to revise their own part in the game. Their biggest strength is in that they from concealment can knock out enemy assets cheaply. The notion of INF VOIP, need to change in to MECH INF, AT INF, AA INF, FOB INF or ASSAULT INF.

Also firebases need to be used more offensively, you don't need to hide them, put them instead on a hill with a great shooting view for the TOW and AA.

Sometimes I find lack of infantry while some other times I wont...
Usually PRTA has some awesome Co-Working infantry squads!

The problem also is that they want to use all assets which leads to a shortage of infantryman, instead of using all assets they could leave a few behind in their main so they have reserves. The guys that will remain now can fill the shortages of infantry. What armored squads could do also is combining their squad with infantry. So you'll get squads with 1 APC combined with 4 infantrymen. This will also result in a better use and accuracy of armored vehicles as they could communicate directly with their fellow infantrymen. Combining squads will improve teamwork and efficiency.

I would run an INF squad every time if I thought my men would listen up and follow orders- but instead I try to play medic for other INF squads since no one ever really wants to- I've been a little obsesed with MOrtars and FOBS lately just casue it's fun and cool- just yesterday I played a game where no one was flying or driving anything- Is was wack and we lost- Can't win with INF ONLY and can't win with VEHICLES only-

less tanks and apcs and more transport trucks and humvees
problem solved.

burghUK wrote:less tanks and apcs and more transport trucks and humvees
problem solved.

Infantry layout.

ghost-recon wrote:The problem also is that they want to use all assets which leads to a shortage of infantryman, instead of using all assets they could leave a few behind in their main so they have reserves. The guys that will remain now can fill the shortages of infantry. What armored squads could do also is combining their squad with infantry. So you'll get squads with 1 APC combined with 4 infantrymen. This will also result in a better use and accuracy of armored vehicles as they could communicate directly with their fellow infantrymen. Combining squads will improve teamwork and efficiency.

I must say that i don't feel this problem. Often their is around 2-3 infantry squads which i think is a good balance. I agree with you that mech inf squads are good.

Punkbuster wrote:Sometimes I find lack of infantry while some other times I wont...
Usually PRTA has some awesome Co-Working infantry squads!

PRTA has awesome team work since it enforces mumble. i had an awesome inf game the other night on TG with a bunch of people I dont know.