Project Reality Forums

viirusiiseli wrote:wah wah I can only get 20 kills per round now, please give me my godmode back

You do realize how entitled you sound, right? 20 kills with 0-2 deaths is still very good. Just because you get to fly CAS doesn't mean you should be able to curbstomp the entire enemy ground force by yourself. There's a hundred people on the server, and everyone should be able to be effective, not just the few people who fly CAS.

The point viirus is trying to make is that there are very very few people that used to get high scores in CAS. I can think of 4-5 of them at most while in other assets, take tanks or APCs for example, a lot of people can easilly hit 30 or 40 kills per round even without trying too much. Of course I'm not saying that they can play without a brain, but in order to do the same in CAS (previous versions) you really have to put a lot of effort, unlike now where it takes no effort to shut down CAS.

Actually having CAS get less kills than infantry makes a lot of sense. Compare the experience for a moment.

Soldier on the ground, in the mix, constantly exposed to danger and runs the risk of being killed at any moment. Constantly up to date with how the battle is unfolding, literally witnessing the advances of either side. Able to formulate a picture of the fighting in the immediate and run risk/reward analysis for possibly choices. Has capacity to directly influence outcome of the battle through capturing and securing Flags, which are the main objectives of AAS game mode and as such will have defenders waiting - he is aware of this and willing to weather the storm.

Pilot in CAS 1km above the ground, completely isolated safe for other Aircraft, can position himself to be at zero risk until he deems it worthy. Reliant upon map markers or direct comms with ground forces to being to understand where the lines have formed. Is wholly unable to formulate a picture of the fighting alone, is unable to assess the risk/reward for his options. Lacks the ability to secure anything on the ground, and is often unaware of the impact on the flags, is rarely able to actively pick a defender out and end his day.

What some people seem to want is the ability to net a lot of kills with relative safety in the vacuum of their own battle space. It saddens me that CAS whores feel 20 kills is not enough to influence the battle. If you want loads of kills that you can get on your own without having to rely on ground forces clearing your hard counter out go ahead play inf and quite your belly aching. CAS whores really just want ez kills as all I hear is certain parrots squacking the same lines over and over.

CAS is extremely powerful, it was probably too powerful before. AA is only as strong as the man sitting in it, and he can be countered by everything except CAS, so 90% of the game destroys AAV, MANPADS, and AA emplacements. Thay are literally only effective against CAS. Armour has more counters at any given moment and somehow Armour whores chime in that TOWs need a buff (if I were like the CAS players I would start to site all the little details that make TOWs "super strong" and fight to keep them the way they are).

So we came up with 10 sources of AA, correct? We are excluding other Aircraft in this assumption or no? Either way. 8x LAT, 2x TOW, 2x HAT, and we'll go ahead and exclude other APCS leaving heavier Armour at 1 sometimes 2. Seems to me like AT has a heavier presence on the battlefield, and as such APCs have more hard counters on the field at any given moment. We'll also assume the map has no Field Guns and there are no cheeky engineers planting mines. I have yet to see a thread for APCs having too many counters.

Somehow APC crews are able to net more kills, how is this possible when CAS should be able to dominate APCs and Tanks and hell I'm in a freaking jet I should be able to drop bombs all round long and get more kills. The guys on the ground should always bag more enemies because they receive all information first hand, they are able to instantly react to any threats and then end them accordingly. CAS is reliant on second, sometimes third-hand information and as such they often get to the fight to do a run after the casualties have been inflicted. It's simply easier for a Stryker to turn it's gun and hold LMB than it is for CAS to mark the map, line up run, call for laze, lock on laze and then send his care package. The process involves many more steps resulting in the enemy having time to find cover, man AA, or already be torn to shreds from ground forces.

Honestly if you do better as INF play INF and stop belly aching about CAS being more of a team asset and unable to simply loiter around snagging 60+ kills every damn round. It stinks of inbalance and people who want to go back to the glory days of being able to get nearly 100 kills with CAS might want to consider legacy versions or bot bashing. As it stands CAS should be seen as a SUPPORT asset not the main tool to win a match (That should be strictly reserved for INF, no questions ask they should be the most powerful and influential unit in the game otherwise it's wildly unbalanced)

60+ kills every damn round? If you would've gathered statistics of every game with CAS, you would see that the only time CAS gets a decent amount of kills is when it is operated by a small set of experienced CAS players. If it is as OP as you make it seem, then surely everyone playing CAS would have at least 30 kills.

CAS used to be an asset that was powerful in the hands of a very skilled crew, true. Just like any other assets are now. I don't see anyone complaining when a CROWS humvee gets 50+ kills yet it is so easy to counter. Or maybe the people operating it know their shit and only a small amount of players can achieve such scores. Should we not nerf it into oblivion then, just like CAS because a small amount of people actually took time to develop tactics that proved successful?

Do a test where your a jet on khami dropping a bomb on a laze and have the AA kill you before the bomb hits.

Already tested this exact scenario many days before. While a jet in that case will survive most instances, this has nothing to do with how flares perform.

The reason why this still works is that the AA most of the time can't even fire a missile because it spots the jet too late and has a hard time getting a lock on anything.
This is because the jet comes directly from above it (restricted or no firing angle) and disappears out of lock range before the AA can aquire it (very low exposure time when diving efficiently), the flares play basically no role in keeping the jet safe in that scenario.

Even so, when testing it and dropping bombs directly on the lased AA, the AA still sometimes managed to fire a missile and kill the jet a few times by shooting at its flares in the last moment before it disappeared.

DogACTUAL wrote:Already tested this exact scenario many days before. While a jet in that case will survive most instances, this has nothing to do with how flares perform.

The reason why this still works is that the AA most of the time can't even fire a missile because it spots the jet too late and has a hard time getting a lock on anything.
This is because the jet comes directly from above it (restricted or no firing angle) and disappears out of lock range before the AA can aquire it (very low exposure time when diving efficiently), the flares play basically no role in keeping the jet safe in that scenario.

Wow, you figured it out all by yourself! I'm really proud of you buddy.

Now let's figure out how to make handheld AA more consistent, I still see the missile going nowhere often. Then we'll talk about how to re-balance it so it won't be killing CAS at insta lock when exploding on a flare but will still be able to deny idiot CAS.

The reason for "only few CAS crews being really good," is very simple, whoever got good by no-lifing for 1 or 2 years started playing with the same group who always refused to play against each other. That'd be proper competition, rather have 6 people try creating the squad and play vs people with 1/20 the experience.

inb4banned wrote: The reason for "only few CAS crews being really good," is very simple, whoever got good by no-lifing for 1 or 2 years started playing with the same group who always refused to play against each other. That'd be proper competition, rather have 6 people try creating the squad and play vs people with 1/20 the experience.

In that case why does only CAS get nerfed? Every other asset in the game has the potential to dominate the enemy team as long as the crew has "no-lifed" it. Hell, even a cohesive infantry squad can do that if it consists of very experienced players.

DogACTUAL wrote:Already tested this exact scenario many days before. While a jet in that case will survive most instances, this has nothing to do with how flares perform.

The reason why this still works is that the AA most of the time can't even fire a missile because it spots the jet too late and has a hard time getting a lock on anything.
This is because the jet comes directly from above it (restricted or no firing angle) and disappears out of lock range before the AA can aquire it (very low exposure time when diving efficiently), the flares play basically no role in keeping the jet safe in that scenario.

Even so, when testing it and dropping bombs directly on the lased AA, the AA still sometimes managed to fire a missile and kill the jet a few times by shooting at its flares in the last moment before it disappeared.

Its almost like if you prioritise killing Anti Air you survive. Like the flares are balanced in a way where teamwork helps you survive.

So you are admitting the 'bug' was actually put there on purpose? Would be in character for the recent 'balance approach' to CAS.

inb4banned wrote:whoever got good by no-lifing for 1 or 2 years started playing with the same group who always refused to play against each other. and play vs people with 1/20 the experience.

Is this not the same for all video games? "baah waah someone is good"

Odd words to come out of someones mouth that prides himself on being good at some video games and calling others bad.

viirusiiseli wrote:Is this not the same for all video games? "baah waah someone is good"

Odd words to come out of someones mouth that prides himself on being good at some video games and calling others bad.

I'm not complaining about anyone being good, this is PR, the bar is so low it's hilarious. The difference is this is an odd 50v50 game with a shrinking playerbase so when the same people whore the same asset all the time and refuse to play against other good players it becomes a problem. Imagine how that would be if anyone actually bothered getting good at infantry.

Now please share your ideas for making handheld AA somewhat worse.

Murphy wrote:AA is only as strong as the man sitting in it

His point is actually valid, i see it all the time clans and groups with individuals ranging from competent to very skilled on one team only, creating asset squads that are 'too big to fail', ergo even if their team loses they will have amassed a lot of kills and completely steamrolled the enemy equivalent squad (tanks/apc/cas). Then they circlejerk each other off on how good they are when the truth is they where just reking nubs, even if their is 1-2 good guys on the other team's CAS or tank it is not enough to break the combined power of a squad like that.

This is even true for INF squads to a certain extent though.

DogACTUAL wrote:His point is actually valid, i see it all the time clans and groups with individuals ranging from competent to very skilled on one team only, creating asset squads that are 'too big to fail', ergo even if their team loses they will have amassed a lot of kills and completely steamrolled the enemy equivalent squad (tanks/apc/cas). Then they circlejerk each other off on how good they are when the truth is they where just reking nubs, even if their is 1-2 good guys on the other team's CAS or tank it is not enough to break the combined power of a squad like that.

This is even true for INF squads to a certain extent though.

This is true for any asset/combination of assets in the game and it can't be solved by nerfing/buffing a certain asset. The only way to correctly fix this is to have server policies and admins that will keep teams balanced.

I wasnt quite happy with the videos. They need to be 100% clear. So we did some of our own with flares definitely between jet and aa. And then we found an interesting mechanic.

Is that splash? I dont think it is. Even if its only "directional" splash:
- Distance is too big as seen at 0:42
- Angle is wrong as seen at 0:18

It's as if the game think the plane is next to the last flare? hmmm

CAS_ual_TY wrote:

inb4banned wrote:I'm not complaining about anyone being good, this is PR, the bar is so low it's hilarious. The difference is this is an odd 50v50 game with a shrinking playerbase so when the same people whore the same asset all the time and refuse to play against other good players it becomes a problem.

Well, for this simple reason I without an exception switch to the team I think is worse when I join servers. Maybe you can try to get good and attempt to counter this issue created by the bar being so amazingly low. Actually, if its so easy, why haven't you already done it?

All I ever hear in PR or on the forums is people telling other people how easy something is, but never doing it themselves.

inb4banned wrote:Now please share your ideas for making handheld AA somewhat worse.

Make teams only have 1 MANPAD, just like HAT, because it's a solo kit that doesn't fit into PR well. Reduce number of static AA emplacements to 2 to force smart placement and teamwork. Increase number of AAVs by 1-2 in CAS maps to compensate, but increase AAV spawn times to 15-20min. AAVs vs CAS are a more fair fight for each side.

Limit missile AA emplacements to 2 per team and add a new cannon AA emplacement like Vulcan and ZSU? limit the angle of it so it can't be used against INF.

Cannons require skill, missiles don't.

viirusiiseli wrote: Make teams only have 1 MANPAD, just like HAT, because it's a solo kit that doesn't fit into PR well..

yes

viirusiiseli wrote:Reduce number of static AA emplacements to 2 to force smart placement and teamwork.

too much.
each fob should have the possibility to defend itself against CAS.
armour gets countered by HAT, stationary AT, LAT (tanks not really, but thats part of another ongoing discussion)
CAS on the other hand only by one kit and 2 stationaries? that doesnt work out.

viirusiiseli wrote:Increase number of AAVs by 1-2 in CAS maps to compensate, but increase AAV spawn times to 15-20min. AAVs vs CAS are a more fair fight for each side.

would only increase the use of "OP against ground targets" AAVs as cheap throwaway apcs (Avenger, Starstreak, Tunguska).

CAS_ual_TY wrote:I wasnt quite happy with the videos. They need to be 100% clear. So we did some of our own with flares definitely between jet and aa. And then we found an interesting mechanic.

Is that splash? I dont think it is. Even if its only "directional" splash:
- Distance is too big as seen at 0:42
- Angle is wrong as seen at 0:18

gOLD



Also i remember you saying this happened with you + desert.. (v1.3).

viirusiiseli wrote:

xD