Project Reality Forums

Hey DEV's.....good luck with this ongoing discussion. I'm off to Ft. Bragg soon. Maybe when I get back this discussion will be solved.

It doesn't make any sense for Special Forces to be ingame, at least as far as the US is concerned. Almost none of the skills of SF units (communications, intelligence, controlling and directing fire support ordinance, languages, knowledge of foreign customs and cultures, advising and training indigenous forces, persuading and advising local and political leaders of foreign countries, reconnaissance and path finding) are related to combat games like PR and A-teams are in fact usually lightly armed and less protected for greater mobility. The main direct action unit that falls under SOCOM is the Rangers AFAIK all other SO units (SEALs, PJs, Force Recon, SF) have objectives that usually involve NOT directly engaging in firefights with the enemy. There are missions where SF units will participate in direct action (capturing or killing terrorist/military leaders and politicians, rescuing US civilians and military personnel for instance) but none of those objectives are ingame, PR is conventional land warfare and SF wouldn't participate in it. Yes we know that SF from time to time do join the big army and fight alongside them but it's not the main mission of SF. About the best job I could see for SF would be for them to lase targets for laser guided bombs and missiles fired from aircraft and helicopters but the game already allows pilots to control those munitions without any support, target identification or clearance.

Seconded.

^^another reason to limit this kit.

HABO3 wrote: but none of those objectives are ingame, PR is conventional land warfare and SF wouldn't participate in it. Yes we know that SF from time to time do join the big army and fight alongside them but it's not the main mission of SF. About the best job I could see for SF would be for them to lase targets for laser guided bombs and missiles fired from aircraft and helicopters but the game already allows pilots to control those munitions without any support, target identification or clearance.

I never thought about the context that way before. I always looked at it that we could possibly include limited SF in PR to carry out SF roles. What your saying is PR isn't taking place in an environment designed for SF roles. There really isn't a good reason on any map that SF would be needed over a "regular" Marine. Very interesting, good justification to remove them completely instead of limit them. It would be fun to have SF in limited numbers but it would also be fun to have more players capping and defending.

Long Bow wrote:I never thought about the context that way before. I always looked at it that we could possibly include limited SF in PR to carry out SF roles. What your saying is PR isn't taking place in an environment designed for SF roles. There really isn't a good reason on any map that SF would be needed over a "regular" Marine. Very interesting, good justification to remove them completely instead of limit them. It would be fun to have SF in limited numbers but it would also be fun to have more players capping and defending.

The thing is, the SF class by itself isn't enough to represent special forces that carry out SF roles in real life. SF teams in reality do not consist entirely of guys with M4s with aimpoints who carry a couple of SLAMs in their backpacks. Real life special forces teams do have medics, communication specialists, demolition experts etc. Depending on the mission, they are probably also going to carry SAWs or other support weapons. Because of that, in game, SF forces would be better represented by squads of people using the three other base kits.

Having a dedicated "special ops" class just reeks of vanilla, where these are supposed to be the people who lonewolf behind enemy lines, blowing up UAV trailers and planting C4 on tanks in bases.

daranz wrote:The thing is, the SF class by itself isn't enough to represent special forces that carry out SF roles in real life. SF teams in reality do not consist entirely of guys with M4s with aimpoints who carry a couple of SLAMs in their backpacks. Real life special forces teams do have medics, communication specialists, demolition experts etc. Depending on the mission, they are probably also going to carry SAWs or other support weapons. Because of that, in game, SF forces would be better represented by squads of people using the three other base kits.

Having a dedicated "special ops" class just reeks of vanilla, where these are supposed to be the people who lonewolf behind enemy lines, blowing up UAV trailers and planting C4 on tanks in bases.

Ok people need to stop posting intelligent posts, it makes me question my previous posts and opinions

All true what you just said but I'm confused do you still think SF should be included? Even if they integrate in with a squad the PR maps really are not about SF actions right?

No.

no SF kit , and have it so SL'ers have m4

great..I'll join a squad and ask:

"Whats our task and situation?"
<SL wont give a shit, cos he just wants his 1337 M4>

You know what would have ended this bickering long ago? Simply change one value of the M4A1 - auto to burst - making it a M4. No one could argue as it is virtually the same weapon in appearance and who is to say that a spec ops might actually prefer accurate 3 round burst over ammo-wasting automatic fire. Yet here we are months later with the same problem

jus get rid of it... or ironsight it

Take away the red dot sight from the spec op and give it to the medic - the team's survivability will increase 100 times.

daranz wrote:Take away the red dot sight from the spec op and give it to the medic - the team's survivability will increase 100 times.

M16 with 1337 laser dot and kevlar, now he just needs an explosive medic bag to booby trap the enemy in need of healing...lol

Last one was a joke, but yeah, lets see, what happens if the Medic's M16 gets the laser dot...put it in the 0.606 beta build just to see...

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:But that discourages squad cohesion and encourages lone wolfing. Wouldn't you agree?

No because its always good to have some one with a CQB weapon in the squad who also has some ability to blow things up or destroy commander assents! like on kashan desert the m4 is the best kit for assaulting the bunkers b/c all the mec guys have fully auto guns and in close range the 3 round burst puts you at a slight disadvantaged!

Last I remember the mod was called Project Reality, and in reality you have the Spec Ops equipped with an M4A1 which has Full-Auto selector switch/trigger pack. If you guys have so many problems with something as insignificant as the M4A1, then I'm wondering how much complaint we're going to see from the community when the Canadian Forces faction is added to PR (Canadian Forces are issued Full-Auto C7A2's/M16A3's with telescoping stock and ELCAN optical sight).

Cheeseman wrote:Last I remember the mod was called Project Reality, and in reality you have the Spec Ops equipped with an M4A1 which has Full-Auto selector switch/trigger pack. If you guys have so many problems with something as insignificant as the M4A1, then I'm wondering how much complaint we're going to see from the community when the Canadian Forces faction is added to PR (Canadian Forces are issued Full-Auto C7A2's/M16A3's with telescoping stock and ELCAN optical sight).

that, would help, the specops would have no zoom when rifle man dose.
Its always the US m4 spec ops, not the Brit, MEC, PLA specops with red dot gun. because the US lacks full auto, they go there.
specops is a lame kit on Brit MEC, and PLA because they get no zoom, no nade, no armour, no ammo. US specops has the auto however, that why there is more m4whorz.

Cheeseman wrote:Last I remember the mod was called Project Reality, and in reality you have the Spec Ops equipped with an M4A1 which has Full-Auto selector switch/trigger pack. If you guys have so many problems with something as insignificant as the M4A1, then I'm wondering how much complaint we're going to see from the community when the Canadian Forces faction is added to PR (Canadian Forces are issued Full-Auto C7A2's/M16A3's with telescoping stock and ELCAN optical sight).

+1

I don't even see why there is a problem to begin with...

Teek wrote:that, would help, the specops would have no zoom when rifle man dose.
Its always the US m4 spec ops, not the Brit, MEC, PLA specops with red dot gun. because the US lacks full auto, they go there.
specops is a lame kit on Brit MEC, and PLA because they get no zoom, no nade, no armour, no ammo. US specops has the auto however, that why there is more m4whorz.

Spec ops for Brit is similar to the US is it not?

<S8>Inchon wrote:I would like to see the special forces kit be modified to have a parachute and/or a rope to climb ontop of buildings or over walls. I believe this would make the kit different from a rifleman kit by giving them greater flexibility to disrupt behind enemy lines.

Example: Squad one is pinned down. 2-3 special forces paratroop behind the enemy infantry/armor and destroy using C4 and M4s.

or

Example: Squad one is pinned down. 2-3 special forces moving in the area are able to flank the enemy and climb ontop of a roof to provide suppressing fire for the squad to move to safety.

i think that is a Brilliant Idea.

They Should have parachutes to drop in behind Enemy lines, would make things much more Tactical on the Battlefield. Grapple Hooks & Zip Lines Would Also Be a brilliant Addition - i think there Should be 4 Different special forces Kits - All of them have Parachutes, But each SpecOps Role Would Differ.

1: Spec-ops Squad Leader Kit :A Good Team Would allow one Squad to Have one particular squad to have this kit indefinitely Throughout the round - if Squad Leader Dies, this Should only be able to be Picked up from that Squads Rally Point - Also This Kit Enables Issue of the other 3 Spec ops Kits by placing them on the Ground Like a Rally Point but would be limited to 3 Kits ( one of each of the following 2 - 4 - If this is Possible ! i really hope it is !!! )

Spec-ops SL abilities:

Not too good on the rifle makes - but something like an MP5SD would be a nice touch.

Silenced Pistol

Knife

Can Place Rally Point.

Has SOFLAM for Laser Designation & Spotting.

Has a Medipac but no Defib - making Stealth and Teamwork much more important for that Squad.

2. Spec-ops Assault Kit

MP5SD

Slam x 2

C4 X 1

Grappling Hook

This Soldier would be Very Important indeed - Help the Squad to Sneak behind enemy Lines with use of Grapple - and be in Charge of Ambushes, Equipment Destruction and Vehicle Sabotage.

3. Spec-Ops Extraction Operative

M95 Sniper Rifle to Provide Cover for Squad.

Silenced Pistol

Binoculars

Smoke Grenades x 3

ZipLine ( for those Quick Escapes )

Band Aid x 3

4. Spec-Ops Techie / Support

MP5SD

Hand Grenades x 3

Ammo Re-supply Bag

Thermal Vision / Night Vision for seeing through Smoke and dark areas ( when you guys make it !! )

Tracker Bug x 1 ( i know this is a long Shot, But if you Could place a Tracker on an Enemy Vehicle they would Show up on the map like a Blip from a UAV until the Tracker is Discovered and Removed with an Engineers Spanner )

Would be Great for setting up Ambushes etc

I really hope some of these ideas would get included !

and sorry this is my first post, but this game makes you have alot to say - Keep up the brilliant Work Guys have loved Every Minute of Playing This fantastic Mod.

Project Reality - One small Step for man, One Giant Leap for BF2.

Neoteknix