Project Reality Forums

Wolfe wrote: The bottom line is here that a spawn method should be decided upon first, THEN design maps around that method. Otherwise what works for one map is a disaster for another.

Hit the nail on the head.

VipersGhost wrote:So sometimes when I think of PR, I'm like...well it might be cool if once in a while I could play on a server where when you die...you die. Something less forgiving. Wolfe's outline would add this element to attacking. When you are moving on a area...shit you better not die or else your out of the attack and back at the rally. It'd definitely give me a dose of what I'm looking for, and make my in-game life way more valuable to me....I wouldn't be out in the open running through town trying to find a bad guy. I'd be sneaking with my squad, trying to cover all the angles...trying to stay alive. Right now...there isn't a whole lot of "trying to stay alive" suspense. In a realistic game that element should be one of its strong points. Having a less forgiviing spawn system would surely be an improvement to that.

Heh if you play servers with less people, you tend to get that feeling that there's not always stuff going on. However, not all maps are made for it. It's like imagine playing Ghost Train with 32 players compared to 64. 64 is constant combat, but 32 is a lot of sneaking around.

Wolfe's plan looks great but i'd like to see it tested out in game first. Maps like Kashan and Oil Fields have bases REALLY far apart. Maybe give it a whirl in beta, maybe up the radius to about 200-250meters? Again, just something I think that should be tried, but the current system works well for me and my unit. It only got better now that the squad needs 3 guys near the officer to place it. Much better than running off behind a rock and placing it.

I strongly believe the SL spawning should stay though. It's a huge promoter of teamwork, but I'm willing to give Wolfe a chance.

I'll do a map comparison for Kashan, and maybe some others too... just to see how they would play out and what the flag cap order would be, if any.

That is, of course, if the devs haven't already decided on something in which case all of this is moot... :

As I said, they should have it in .7 so that every time you die in game, you're game should uninstall and the disc smashed in the drive.

tboneus wrote:Pubbies just dont care that much.

And thank goodness the PR Devs don't care what non-teamwork pubbies think. Screw em.

tboneus wrote:the goal of PR is teamwork. And being able to spawn on your SL is one of the keys to achieving this in a public game

Players either are teamwork oriented or they are not. No amount of SL spawning is going to increase teamwork other than using you as a mobile spawn point to get closer to the action, after which they could care less if you lived or died. That's not teamwork. If removing SL spawning caused some players to leave PR then I say good riddance; they had no concept of teamwork, strategy, or patience and were playing the wrong mod.

I guarantee that if PR continues to use mechanics that favor actual teamwork and real tactics to win, it will repel vanilla players and attract serious players looking for a game that combines realistic combat tactics with ease of use.

Wolfe wrote:And thank goodness the PR Devs don't care what non-teamwork pubbies think. Screw em.

eeexxxactly the point

if you worry about teamwork (as a reason for SL spawn removal) you could just find a better server or a server with a better crowd...

for Aussie guys GSA BigD is not too bad

Remove SL spawning, would make the game a hell of alot slower( wich is a good thing) and make people somewhat actualy value their PR lives...

also make for some nice battles.

also remember when open beta had the 3 squad members around u to have set RP there was a up raw!! people complaining , now , i don't even notice it , its just part of the game and im use to it.

i think we should try a open beta on this because it will change game play ALOT and see how it works , if it dose not work leave it , if it dose change it , every 1 wins

Voted no.

If you look at the gameplay on some of the Insurgency maps when all but the farthest spawn cars are destroyed, you'll get a sense of what gameplay will be like. Squads will be strung out all across the map, making teamwork all but impossible.

Now imagine this happening on one of the desert maps that have very little cover. Between armor super-zoom, snipers, designated marksman, and riflemen, there's very little chance you'll live long enough to hook up with the rest of your squad as you hoof it to your RP.

I'm all for changing the mechanics of the game, but I think eliminating SL spawn would require a great deal of other changes (map size, vehicle spawns, etc.) before the gameplay was balanced and enjoyable.

it should also be that a HUMVEE can only move if it has a SL in the vehicle to prevent people from driving away with one person in it. Stranding the others who need a lift to their squad or SL. An SL and no less then 2 others. Or have it so if there isnt a SL that the HUMVEE must be full. That would be a way to keep random squads mates that are stranded at the main base because they cant spawn on their SL to get up a new RP after it got destroyed.

Give SL's a button that kills them, so that when they are cut off and stranded from the rest of the army and their squad and with no rally because he was the only one to survive the attack on their position. Or I guess they are going to have to pull a Chris Ryan. Poor squad would be stuck spawning on the main everytime they died becuase their squad leader is walking the world.

How about just make a SL spawnable when they have a Officer Kit.

Also see if it is possible to make it so that you run when you press Shift+w and the chat button so that you dont have to be at your computer while you take the stagering walk if you cant drive the vehicle.

All of this really only applies for big maps. But isnt that what PR was moving for? Large maps for flanking and room to manuver.

One advantage for removing the SL spawn would be that post overtakes would take longer and the gameplay would take longer to end.
I can say it's annoying for e.g. 3 men defending a post and they would get a squad of 6 men trying to take over the post. Taking them down would be a little effort as they after 30 sec would be a full squad again.

One proposal would be that if not spawning directly to your SL, you should be able to spawn 200 meters behind him if there isn't any RP closer to the SL.

By this you don't drop in teamplay and you get punished for being taken out as the time to regroup the whole squad again would take longer time and the benifit for the opposing forces doing there job better.

In a reality perspective a squad can call in for reinforcement so this is the tough for keeping SLS but it's not like the reinforcement is dropped 10 meters from the enemy.

I have been playing this game for some time now, and I can say, teamwork will not be decreased by removing the SL spawn. A good squad where everybody wants to teamplay will have RP placed out, and a squad often operates in the limit of it's RP, if they move they will have to make a new RP and that is they have to find a new area what they consider safe to secure. And those 100 meters to get back to the frontline is the price enemy get when taking out someone. Even if that RP is out the SL would wait for the player to spawn back from the base. If players wouldn't obey orders they would get themselfs kicked. So they will learn. Better for everyone.

Keep it.
but alter it!

Voted for altered system.

My opinion (if possible)

- APC - no respawn in them in v0.7

- Rally Points - can be placed as they are now but with SL + 2 SM, to destroy them you need to knife them 4 times instead of 2 but if you fire at it once from a distance it will deny the respawn for 10 seconds, that will give you the time to safely go and destroy it instead of getting killed by someone that just spawned. This can be done by auto repair after 10 seconds, so you cannot spawn if it is damaged but if no one goes destroy it you will be able to spawn again.

- Commander Trucks - would have a limited respawn of 20 troops, after that they have to go either to main base or to a bunker/firebase to reset respawn limit.

- Bunkers or Firebases - would work as now but will spawn cars only by Officers request as a kit is. This will help so that the damn car doesn't spawn inside some walls where you can't take him out of there and you can choose the location for it to spawn in the surrounding area of the bunker / fire base.

- Squad Leaders - You can only spawn on them if they have the Officers kit and if they aren't on an enemy or neutral flag area. You will have a limited respawn of 10 squad members, after that the SL will have to reset the limit on his rally point.

Don't know if these ideas are possible or not but i think they would fix part of the problem. Let me know what you guys think.

NO. Why? Because I think that while it's fine to try and be 'realistic', sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for gameplay. What happens if you have a skirmish and lose two of your men? With no SL spawn, they get to start over back at the main base. No problem, but, oh wait, you are a couple klicks away. So while they either hoof it two kilometers through unsecured territory or sit at base twiddling their thumbs, your squad is down two guys. Good job. I guess that means you've gotta turn around and go back to base to reinforce. What fun! "But IMI, that's what medics are for!" Yeah, if they are reviveable.

In my opinion, SL spawn encourages teamplay IF THE SQUAD IS WORKING TOGETHER. If you take out the ability to spawn on your SL, then what's the point of squads other than for limited kits? Being in a squad should mean that you are given certain advantages, and the expectation to use those advantages for the team.

Keep the spawn system. Considering all the ways you can die, your squad needs you with them, not back at base because a tank ubersniped you with an MG two klicks out. But that is a rant for another day.

I'm undecided. The problem is there is never enough transport vehicles for every squad in game. This makes up for it. But I would preffere that it wasn't there.

Ecko wrote:I'm undecided. The problem is there is never enough transport vehicles for every squad in game. This makes up for it. But I would preffere that it wasn't there.

Actually there is, if they are used right, which they are mostly not. It's not meant to pick up a vehicle solo drive to your SL and leave it there. VOIP will be significant communicating with your SL and SL with commander for transport. If not with SLS removed find yourself running all the way to your SL. So setting rally points and teamwork will be significant.

try removing it in the next open beta and see how it goes