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Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 13:59
by gazzthompson
Waaah_Wah wrote:If this can be done in a good way (wich i doubt) it will be really good. Otherwise, it will really suck and probably f*ck up gameplay.
bit vague ?? how could it be done right ?? how could it f*ck up?

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 14:26
by Tartantyco
gazzthompson wrote:bit vague ?? how could it be done right ?? how could it f*ck up?
-In the way that every other change that people have whined about f*cking up the game on the forum over the years. Wait....

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 14:44
by AnRK
Yup, remember removing SL spawns, minimap, reload from rallys, crewman repair etc etc etc? NONE of these were popular, and were only supported by maybe 25% of the community at most.

To be honest I really don't care if this is deemed "babysitting", although someone very eloquently pointed out it actually reduces the time you have to deal with less helpful individuals, it stops people from ruining other people's games by wasting kits and assets for no good reason other then their personal gratification. Alot of the time it doesn't actually get them any anyway, alot of will just have something to whine about cos the games hard, and their super mega special kit hasn't warranted them some sort of invulnerability to everything.
gazzthompson wrote:you must read closer, i have all ready said why not make it so you dont have to request SL for crewman and pilot kit.
If it's codable, I think it'd be reasonable for an SL (providing he's an officer so it doesn't ruin dedicated squads) to approve crewman and pilot kits, I'm sure the people that like to run the Officer/SF/Pilot kinda squads can deal with accepting a request every 10-20 minutes. That's of course if you can code it to use an approval system rather then the SL having to manually get kits for people, in which case they're obviously best left exempt.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 15:57
by Katsu
AnRK wrote:To be honest I really don't care if this is deemed "babysitting", although someone very eloquently pointed out it actually reduces the time you have to deal with less helpful individuals, it stops people from ruining other people's games by wasting kits and assets for no good reason other then their personal gratification. Alot of the time it doesn't actually get them any anyway, alot of will just have something to whine about cos the games hard, and their super mega special kit hasn't warranted them some sort of invulnerability to everything.
Agreed. This exactly. Anyone who thinks the present system is working effectively or should be left as it is needs their head checking. It takes merely seconds for a retard to join a squad, take a kit, then waste it. You cannot, as SL in it's present form, stop this from happening at all, nevermind how organised or strict you are. Kick them from squad by all means, but by then it's too late...mr smacktard has the HAT kit and is running down the street to go toe-to-toe with that incoming apc.

This proposed system is not another way of the game modding the player, in fact it puts kit allocation directly into the hands of the squad leaders. If that's too much for you to organise, then SL is not your calling. Yes it could be abused but the pro's outweigh the cons, it's the lesser of two evils.

If it works like this : -
'= wrote:H[=TangFiend;831334']I like the idea of the SL getting a PAGE-UP / PAGE-DOWN prompt to approve kits without the necessity of being near the rally point himself.


Nothing to micromanage just a glance and a button press could cut down on some of the moron-hood you encounter as a squadleader. Would be nice if the PLAYERNAME and the KIT were gold instead of blue for easy reading at a glance.
then it's a complete winner.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 18:51
by nSika_FunP
This really is a great idea, if it could be done with the page up | page down system. It would be so easy to keep your squad loadout the way you want it and it would also allow the old style of leading (just approve every request). Squad members just need to learn to enjoy the game more without those shiny special kits, how about following the squad leader and getting into exciting firefights and seeing funny things while traveling between battles.
But if that pgup | pgdn system won't work and the squad leader needs to request the kits for the squad members, then it should only be required for the most "expensive kits" (heavy at, aa, sniper), other kits are more like squad support kits and should be allowed freely.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 19:20
by Katsu
Fishw0rk wrote:Umm if Mr Retard is grabbing a HAT kit to engage an APC then he's doing you guys a favor. :rolleyes:

HOWEVER, the problem with PR now is not that retards run off with limited kits. No, the problem is the ridiculous reallocation time in .8 As I've said before 10minutes is unreasonably long--especially for kits that are common on the battlefield like LMGs, Grenadiers, etc. If the reallocation time wasn't so long then obtaining these kit wouldn't anywhere near the issue it is right now, so even if mr retard grabbed a spec ops kit and died, your teamed wouldn't be screwed over for so long.
Well the point I was making is expressed by me using the words "mr smacktard" and "toe-to-toe"...I meant actually stood in front of it! I would of hoped you would have known what I meant by my example without me going into semantics.

Your second point quoted is valid about the relocation time however to say the problem is not retards running off with specialist kits I would argue is wrong. It would be less harmful to the team if relocation time was shorter on a wasted kit, as in previous versions, but this thread is about a way to maintain the limited state of kits (and another thread awaits on the pro's and con's of that system), but to have them allocated effectively in the present system.

You mention that as squad leader you don't care much what your squad takes. So if you as a squad leader, actually gave much care what your squad members kits were, do you think that you would feel such animosity against the kit relocation time then? Do you think maybe if you controlled your squad more then there would be more kits in circulation and hence the relocation time wouldn't be such an issue anymore? Problem being you have no control over the kits at all, nobody does, so hell, it's easier to just let them have what they want (eveyone else is doing it so why not) and blame the kit relocation time instead. Okay, I'm not saying anything about your abilities as a squad leader (I'm using your example to make you think what if you did care more, and would it change the kits in circulation) but the point stands for any squad leader who doesn't give a shit what his squad takes at all! (at it's most extreme). We will always have bad squad leaders and this suggestion won't help them but I would imagine it would help the good SL's work more effectively.

One reason the kit relocation time hurts the team is that there is no control on who is getting the kits. If the relocation system is to stay then something must happen, maybe this here suggestion, to ease the frustration of lack of kits. At least this suggestion puts requested kit allocation into the squad leaders hands, the very people who should be controlling it, in my opinion.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 20:41
by Cobhris
'= wrote:H[=TangFiend;831334']I like the idea of the SL getting a PAGE-UP / PAGE-DOWN prompt to approve kits without the necessity of being near the rally point himself.


Nothing to micromanage just a glance and a button press could cut down on some of the moron-hood you encounter as a squadleader. Would be nice if the PLAYERNAME and the KIT were gold instead of blue for easy reading at a glance.

Certainly would cut down on some of the moronhood. Just this week I can think of two examples where I had to chide a squad member for choosing off the wall kits in the squads I was leading.

real Example 1 Qwai river: Tow humvee squad - we are mopping up moving very fast. Some kid dies and comes back with a marksman kit. I said "Are you kidding, I hope you can run 35 miles per hour"


real Example 2 Muttrah: two nights ago mech infantry squad a guy dies respawns at carrier and flys back to us with a Littlebird.


It would be nice to have some more control to prevent extreme examples like the above.


Posters here seem so worried about bad squad leaders, there is an 84% more chance of getting a bad squad MEMBER since they are the other 5/6 slots in a squad.
This is perfect. Keep the current system, but make requests go through the SL so people can't just take their favorite kit and bail. Not too much power to the SL, but enough to curb chaos.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-23 23:31
by Wicca
I actually just noticed that mr Rihno said he would give it a little thinking at the start of the thread.

So, im happy :D

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-24 03:00
by nilloc93
Tartantyco;831658 wrote:-WTF? If you're medic then you don't change your kit.



-You're a noob if you change your kit when you're medic. And new SLs will learn.


ok do you realize how frustrating it is to be the bullet magnet medic for 6 HOURS? thats all i EVER get to do

oh yes and the page up page down is good cause you can basically give it to the dudes who did not just come in and more to the dues you have been talking to for a while and are Prudy darn sure they have not been in your squad for 30 mins just to get a sniper kit (what is so grand bout it anyways?)

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-24 03:57
by Solid Knight
With all the hate for people taking the sniper kit you might as well take it out of the game.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-24 06:18
by Tartantyco
nilloc93 wrote:ok do you realize how frustrating it is to be the bullet magnet medic for 6 HOURS? thats all i EVER get to do
-Hey, if you don't want to play as medic then say so, don't accept that position and then switch your kit.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-24 10:48
by @bsurd
Solid Knight wrote:With all the hate for people taking the sniper kit you might as well take it out of the game.
This problem is easy to solve...

Make the sniper requesteble by a one man sq... Thats all to do. Then one man can open a sniper sq and take the kit he wants. (I myself like to snipe, but i understand that im uselees to went out with a sq.

So when im alone (not with clan members)on the server, the only way i have to get one is to go in a sq, take the kit and then leave because im useless and dont want to block the slot in the sq...

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-24 11:49
by Wicca
Well, i just hope they can implement this system with Python, as far as what ive been told by Eddiereyes909. Although he doesnt like this idea, he says it is possible, i will continue to harass him until he joins the dark side muhhahaha!

But seriously, python can do this, just like the request build order and all that stuff.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-25 01:01
by Gaven
Wicca wrote:Well, i just hope they can implement this system with Python, as far as what ive been told by Eddiereyes909. Although he doesnt like this idea, he says it is possible, i will continue to harass him until he joins the dark side muhhahaha!

But seriously, python can do this, just like the request build order and all that stuff.
Don't harass over it.

Remember that there's still a large portion of people who don't like the idea. Show some respect for our opinions.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-25 01:08
by Gaven
/ASF/.Venom wrote:about the medic thing, i LOVE being medic and the server i play on finds that suprising and therefore i always have a great game because as a medic you hang back with the SL and support guy, and the guys advancing if they die know they can rely on me to get to them with cover fire from the support and save their shiny asses :D . Im actually suprised by people who think the medic kit sucks coz hey, they are all protecting you :D :P

And about the Page up and down thing...in the past 4? pages ive seen nothing new except a general acceptence of the idea and the guys against it reanimating arguements that are too commonly used.
And I've seen the guys for it doing nothing but reanimating the same arguments...

There's only so many arguments you can have against a poor suggestion.

So that subject is irrelevant now.

As a squad leader, I don't want to babysit people. I'm already focused on a battle, or focused on doing various other things, I really have no will to distract myself with what kit this guy wants to take. And how will this stop people from taking bad kits? If I deny their request, they'll just go to another squad until they can get it, or if I say yes, they'll take it and leave, nothing I can do. Or they'll just stay.

As a squad member, I don't want an incompetent squad leader making poor decisions on kits. And sometimes you can't just go find another squad, because they're full. Do you think I really want to tolerate idiotic squad leaders because they're giving an infantry squad a sniper on Ramiel? It's bad enough that incompetent ones can't give orders, hell, when they tell me to do something one way I usually do it the way I know is better. Now we're giving the incompetent ones control of the kits? And believe me,, there are a lot of bad squad leaders out there.

And now I'm sick of posting in this thread.

Re: squad leader request kits for squad.

Posted: 2008-10-25 01:18
by gazzthompson
if anything it will be less babysitting kits.