Project Reality Forums

Ccharge wrote:There is always a alternitive spawn point unless you have lost all your flags. Its called your main base. RP were also just reasons to not care about your life. Now, if you get killed suddenly you have to find a way to regroup with your squad. This means players will be more scared to die, they don't want to A: loose a position and B: find a way to get back to there squad. Also if this is implimented players will adapt. Sooner or later people will go "hey my teams always getting its *** kicked. Wait? I'm always spawning at the main, maybe thats why! I should build some firebases to support my team!"

No, the main base should be the last resort for squads to spawn on. It essentially means that specific force has been pushed very far back or turned away completely for the time, I.E. back to the carrier etc. Making the whole team continously spawn back at main just hurts the flow of the game and more time will be spent trying to get back to the front, than actually advancing. And the whole "value your life" thing is just a played out argument. Do you not think that people value their lives now? Of course no one wants to die (except for suicide bombers), but there are forces ingame along with a gamey designed engine which make death inevitable.

Honestly, take away both RPs, FOBs, and every other spawn and make main the only spawn. All that is going to happen is people will still get killed in the stupidest and unlikely ways and players will just get more pissed off. Maybe then you and the rest of the people who think we don't value our lives will finally get it. I am not trying to be a ******, but you have to understand that this engine is based off a gamey one and the player wasn't meant to last for more than a certain amount of time. I use cover, tactics, flanking, falling back, but you can still trip down a flight of stairs and die. You can still pop your head out from behind cover, fire, and still die because of player lag even after your head is back down. You can still get shot from nowhere, no matter how much you move silently, etc.

As for your last sentence, can't you see that is already possible ingame? If people do not regroup at RPs now, do you honestly think they are going to change their behavior for FOBs? No. You aren't going to change a player if he doesn't want to do this. I mean, wasn't everyone saying when APC spawns, RPs, and FOB spawns came about, weren't those the same arguments? I recall they were......

Listien your not getting this. No the devs arnt try to ruin PR for everybody. There changing something that needed to be changed for awhile. Scince players are hardcoded the only way to make the game better was to change the way they had to play. I'm willing to walk a 4 km map, as long as i get better gameplay (Even though its extremely unlikley for me to be walking that far). I want to see more care in actual life in PR.

Of course they aren't trying to ruin PR intentionally, but many players along with myself think they are trying to go too far in their changes and don't have an accurate representation of the population backing their change. And RPs never needed to be changed, the CO needs to be changed and the RPs only need o be changed back to 3 players. And since when is walking long distances a gurantee of more teamwork? It isn't. Yes, players are hardcoded, but you don't change them by punishing them. You want players to change? Then reward them, which is one of the reasons why the RP system has worked out so well so far. Its a reward, not a punishment.

In older versions people would get wounded and just give up because there RP was just a couple hundred meters away, a short walk. Now if you wounded people are waiting to be revived. Why do you think people always used to take a couple medics before it was limited? It ment they didn't have to walk as far. People want to skip getting there. The getting there and planning part is much more important then the actual fire fight. People used to rush into battle in wave after wave just wasting tickets because it was easy just to get to the front again.

Then they would lose to the squads that actually planned out their tactics and waste tickets. That hasn't changed at all and thats the team's fault and players will still find a way to screw up even with the Beta. I guess then you will find something else to complain about. But, I won't deny that people want to get to the fight quickly because they do. But how will this Beta change their behavior? You think people are going to wait for their squad when they can just spawn on an FOB like they can an RP now? I saw this a lot, and this is probably the biggest flaw in the Beta argument. Sure, they may have to walk a little further now, but people will still go off on their own now rather than wait for their squad. The different now is that they will have far less squads to go up against, meaning more success as a lone wolf.

It won't change the randomness of the game either. I mean, plan out all you want, but it only goes the way you plan it what, 10% of the time?

Players need to learn how to adapt to there current situation. Theres going to be alot of radical changes like this. Get used to em. I find it hard to play on normal servers just because i'm so used to playing on servers with the new beta.

How can you just say get used to them? That is not an argument. I could say to you to get used to the current system. Why didn't you just get used to the M4 laser weapon change? Or the drastic deviation change in 0.7? Or the APC spawn? Some changes aren't always good.

I feel sorry for the DEV whose has to read the whole thread for the feedback....such a novel

I think it won't end and from page to page, there are a lot of things said before. We ought to reach an agreement because after a while, it's pointless (battle of points of view with no arguments except the statement "I am right, you don't !").

Ccharge wrote:One death = one ticket.
If your playing this game for a score go play cod or something. I usally only care about my score if i'm top squad. Usally i play this game because its almost the only game i actually get decent teamwork on.

What do I have to do with this? I'm a negligible part of the PR player base. I said I think "people will" be more reckless if none notices their score. People behave better when they are supervised. And ya, people will go play CoD or something if they want to. That's pretty much the topic of this thread.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:So RPs don't encourage teamwork ingame now lol? That's completely false. The Beta is trying to make teamwide teamwork occur more at the expense of individual squads, it has no effect on squad teamwork (only negatives) really.

There is no teamwork if squads dont cooperate.

The entire TEAM works togheter = Teamwork.
The individual squad works togheter but ignores the rest of the team = Squadwork.

I want teamwork you want squadwork. I say FOB´s give both you say they dont. We have to agree to disagree.

TheLean wrote:There is no teamwork if squads dont cooperate.

The entire TEAM works togheter = Teamwork.
The individual squad works togheter but ignores the rest of the team = Squadwork.

I want teamwork you want squadwork. I say FOB´s give both you say they dont. We have to agree to disagree.

Your point being..?

Without "squadwork", no teamwork, either.

TheLean wrote:There is no teamwork if squads dont cooperate.

The entire TEAM works togheter = Teamwork.
The individual squad works togheter but ignores the rest of the team = Squadwork.

I want teamwork you want squadwork. I say FOB´s give both you say they dont. We have to agree to disagree.

No, I want both, but like manlighten said, TEAM work is impossible without strong individual squads. Trying to just bunch them together and expecting it to work is just going to fail hard. Mumble is really the only way to improve on team based teamwork. You can't really expect some grand amount of team based teamwork without intersquad communication and does the Beta do anything to fix intersquad communication? No.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:There is already a lot of teamwork in PR. What I was responding to was the guys who always whine and make up the notion that there is no squadteamwork or team level teamwork in PR which is just false. But if there isn't (according to the guys who always want something nerfed or changed), than how exactly will this change prove any different or change anything?



No doubt that people join squads because of good SLs and wanting to teamplay. But you have to admit that the RP is also a major reason why people join squads. Look at PR vs. BF2. Both have squads. What makes PR have so much more people join squads over those in BF2? RPs is a major reason. Even if you go on a noobie server and eliminate the "veteran" argument, you still have more people joining squads over vanilla BF2.

A lot of people get frustrated too and leave squads for one reason or another. When they have no other spawn but the RP, it makes it hard for them to just bug out like that and makes them have to stick/dedicate time to the squad.

To be honest, this is starting to sound like a lot of pleading and whining to save a feature that you are really too dependent on. It sounds like you are so dependent on the RP system, that you are grasping at straws to support your case. People don't join squads in BF2 because the squads are meaningless in that game. There's no SL, everyone just runs around like chickens with their heads cutoff. And when I tried following SL's in that game, they all seemed like 15 year old boys on their first Prom dates, awkwardly trying to do something productive, rather than knowing what to do and how to do it. I will not stay in a squad just for the RP, who cares? Why can't you just join another squad and use their RP? That makes no sense that anyone will stay in a squad they hate just to use the RP. That's like saying people are willing to eat off a truck stop bathroom floor just because there's a delicious slice of pizza on it.

More than anything, you're painting a picture of a bunch of rambo players who would rather lone-wolf the game than be in a squad, but have no choice because their life seems to depend on the RP? Which I find to be a major fallacy, because what stops a player from joining a squad, spawning at the RP and then taking off on their own? You make it sound like everyone hates being in squads or something, so why play a teamwork oriented game like PR? The PR doesn't hold that much value, when I look at squads, I'm looking at who's got room, what the name of the squad implies, (INF, AMORED, HELI, etc.) and such. And when I look at the map, it's to see where my squad is and where I should spawn, but I'm not like, do they have an RP close to the action, man I need to get to the action ASAP! That's just ridiculous, and if you died, well, maybe you should do all that walking to think to yourself why you died in the first place. Or maybe, next time you should wait for your medic to revive you, and if he went down too, well maybe you'll do a better job of keeping him alive so he can revive you. Just food for thought.

I dont really think its a good idea. I do like the emphasis on FOB placement though. This to me is what always makes a good team...FOB placement. At least make the rally points replaceable after 60 seconds without having to "rearm."

I think they should emphasize the use of a commander much more. Just about all the games i play on public servers never have a commander, or they only pop in to throw an artillery strike (which is uncommon). Maybe make it so you have to request an FOB to the commander. Also maybe make artillery a little easier to use or be able to use it more often. I almost never see artillery strikes.

Anything that makes me walk instead of getting mixed up in it will put me off the game.
I played on the beta game and I hated it.
I guess I'm now waiting for the game to be rendered unenjoyable by this beta going global and when it does I'll probable end up looking for a different game.

Where is the fun in walking miles across a map?

This thread is a waste of time.

There have been beta-tests to try out the rally point and give the dev-team data to access a possible change in the spawning system. Lets simply wait and see. Either way, the game is not going to die, for either the players will adapt and continue to play or the changes will be reverted or adjusted in a way that the overall playing experience will not suffer.

I like the continues struggle of the dev-team to improve the game. For this, one has to take calculated risks and be bold enough to make some radical changes from time to time. The continues addition of content and changing game mechanics is certainly one of the exciting parts of this mod, so please stop complaining about it. Many players look forward to the next incarnation of the game with a much more positive and curious attitude.

Period.

DaKillerFox wrote:To be honest, this is starting to sound like a lot of pleading and whining to save a feature that you are really too dependent on. It sounds like you are so dependent on the RP system, that you are grasping at straws to support your case. People don't join squads in BF2 because the squads are meaningless in that game. There's no SL, everyone just runs around like chickens with their heads cutoff. And when I tried following SL's in that game, they all seemed like 15 year old boys on their first Prom dates, awkwardly trying to do something productive, rather than knowing what to do and how to do it. I will not stay in a squad just for the RP, who cares? Why can't you just join another squad and use their RP? That makes no sense that anyone will stay in a squad they hate just to use the RP. That's like saying people are willing to eat off a truck stop bathroom floor just because there's a delicious slice of pizza on it.

More than anything, you're painting a picture of a bunch of rambo players who would rather lone-wolf the game than be in a squad, but have no choice because their life seems to depend on the RP? Which I find to be a major fallacy, .

He does have a point about the engine, Face it no matter how good you are you going to get killed, In PR you can't use cover effectively so the chances some one going to get lucky and splatter your brains every where is just a matter of time.


And me what my opinion on the removal, Well for short i have only seen Beta work very well on kashan desert, And operation barracuda and koringal valley where just a complete failure.

IF the dev's are willing to totally redesign the game, and tweak all the levels to work well on beta, Then it may work.

But I really do think the hole prospect of what beta is trying to achieve, is at this stage unobtainable

I really don't like the idea of no more RP's.

I tried it both as a squad member and as a SL, but didn't like it at all. I really missed my RP as a SL, and found keeping your squad together was nearly impossible due to FOB's beeing to far away so when a member died he had to spawn 5 minutes away from me.

Also it increased the amount of walking we had to do, and i really think we do enough of that as it is right now.

So, I vote against removing RP's, and i would agree that changing this system we have now might kill the game for a lot of players. I would probably stop playing if it is gonna be like on the server i tried it.

Make it so that you can only spawn at the RP when atleast two or three people are dead? This make them actually come up as a new force instead of just as single soldiers.

What makes any of y'all think that PR is played the way it was meant to be played (for the most part)? I'd like to try the game without RP's if/when the entire community MUST function without it. It will definately separate the men from the boys. There are bigger cultural evolution matters that should have more concern. First, the commander position is WAY under-utilized, mainly because the position has limited use. Increase commander value (add a 'disband squad' option?) to the game, help that role evolve. You can always put the RP's back in. Maybe give the commander some mobility? Secondly, lighten up on the FOB building time, meaning make it NOT self destruct so quickly if you must cease digging early into building it, or diminish the damage it does.

I for one appreciate what BSS has done. Thanks guys!

LyfTaker wrote:What makes any of y'all think that PR is played the way it was meant to be played (for the most part)? I'd like to try the game without RP's if/when the entire community MUST function without it. It will definately separate the men from the boys. There are bigger cultural evolution matters that should have more concern. First, the commander position is WAY under-utilized, mainly because the position has limited use. Increase commander value (add a 'disband squad' option?) to the game, help that role evolve. You can always put the RP's back in. Maybe give the commander some mobility? Secondly, lighten up on the FOB building time, meaning make it NOT self destruct so quickly if you must cease digging early into building it, or diminish the damage it does.

I for one appreciate what BSS has done. Thanks guys!

(^^great minds think alike that is exactly wat needs to be done)

but yeah its better now than it was

- more tactical
- more realistic (i mean we are playing project reality)
- increases the use of vehicles and encourgages teamwork

maybe more vehicles are needed in some maps to compensate for the rally point loss and i see less officer kits being used these days because now there're less useful.. i dont know wat should be done about that but yeah..

not perfect of course, nothing is but the change is definately for the better

Thanks Foob, I appreciate that.

Here's an idea, make it so a squad leader can only generate 1 RP per hour, and only with commander approval?

I have an idea about this subject. How about keeping the rallypoint, but make it so that you can only deploy it near friendly firebases. Something like 500-700m radius. That would simulate the supply chain and create frontlines, but would minimize those annoying long walks.
What do you think?
sry if this has been suggested already, I didn't have the time to read all the pages in this thread

LionRock wrote:How about keeping the rallypoint, but make it so that you can only deploy it near friendly firebases. Something like 500-700m radius.

has that ever been suggested??? because its probably the best solution to the rp problem (id shorten it to 300-400ish personally).. lionrock get out ther and get ur post count up so u can suggest it in the suggestion thread!

commander ineffectivity is a different story though (lol i had a rant on that topic not to long ago actually .......)

I for one, have yet to play on a .87D beta server and I will not until the new version is released, so I really don't know the impact on gameplay that the new RP system will have. But after reading soldier of fortune's essay (yes I read it all), he makes some very good points. I have played PR off and on since the early days, but I started playing PR religiously since .7 and I must say that between .7 and .87 the realism and teamwork has been outstanding. Why fix something that isn't broken when it comes to gameplay and concentrate more on maps, weapons and vehicles? I have to say that teamwork has excelled with .85 & .87 in my opinion, so again why change the gameplay when the noobs have finally graduated to be real PR players and are working/playing together as a team in .87 What I have read to date about the new RP system, I most say, the throught of it scares the hell out of me.

Then why don't you just go try it out instead of relying on the opinion of others...?

I was very skeptic after reading the changes too, but after playing some good hours, I changed my mind.