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'[F|H wrote:Zackyx;2104741']If you are so sure lets do a poll? Devs it really fells like you are completely out of touch with the players...

I'm all in favor of doing a pull (voting for or against the made changes) simple as that (not that it would necessarily change anything...) but just to see where the community as a whole stands and on which side of the argument.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:honestly, what is a powergamer?

Issue with a poll is that only a fraction of the total community would vote.

Well this is not gonna break the game.

But it's still shit.

Rabbit wrote:Issue with a poll is that only a fraction of the total community would vote.

Issues with not doing a vote only a smaller fraction of the community can vote (Devs).

STompa wrote:Well I got a different impression when chatting around with people, but of course everyone doesn't spam the forum like I did.

At least you realize you've been spamming the forums, saying the same thing over and over again. I think ppl get your point.

fatalsushi83 wrote:At least you realize you've been spamming the forums, saying the same thing over and over again. I think ppl get your point.

Well if people keep quoting me and responding I of course will reply. Like you just did for example. Specially I'll respond if people who quote me show that they didn't read even half of what I said obviously.

STompa wrote:Well if people keep quoting me and responding I of course will reply. Like you just did for example.

Where's Daniel when you need him

I think he is still banned.

'[F|H wrote:Zackyx;2104764']Issues with not doing a vote only a smaller fraction of the community can vote (Devs).

Right, but its about a dozen on the forums I have seen that truly despise the deviation hud, of which I have not seen a single good reason on the forums of in gameplay that says its an issue.

In terms of turret speed, its equally split among hate it and love it mixed with about 60% "I don't give a fuck". However with such a large negative group I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of change.

Rabbit wrote:Right, but its about a dozen on the forums I have seen that truly despise the deviation hud, of which I have not seen a single good reason on the forums of in gameplay that says its an issue.

In terms of turret speed, its equally split among hate it and love it mixed with about 60% "I don't give a fuck". However with such a large negative group I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of change.

I mean the vast majority of the PR community never comes by the forums. I've heard a lot of varied feedback on the new changes in my squads. I think a lot of people could care less about the deviation indicator. It is true though, it makes it way way easier to use ranged kits or deployed kits. LAT as well. There was always a bit of guess work involved with it before, but now you know exaclty when to fire. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, and it's probably what was intended.

My only real issues at this point are some of the more annoying bugs and client CTDs. Then obviously I'm not a fan of the new turret traverse system. I understand why it was done, but it just doesn't fit with the gameplay of PR in my opinion. Assets are just camping miles away from the action now, and it's easy to avoid getting killed by them by simply sprinting or driving past them. It is what it is though, guess we have to adapt. Personally I don't find any enjoyment in gunning or driving Tanks and APCs anymore.

Chefmoto1 wrote:... Assets are just camping miles away from the action now, and it's easy to avoid getting killed by them by simply sprinting or driving past them. It is what it is though, guess we have to adapt. Personally I don't find any enjoyment in gunning or driving Tanks and APCs anymore.

the truth, it's a shame I really liked how it was over last few versions --- game is not that appealing anymore since INF is the only real enjoyable part and other games do that a-lot better

Turret traverse speed just means Armour crews are even less likely to be inclined to support infantry in anything but open ground. Since the patch I've watched the experienced Armour whores shift their overall strategy. Charging a position and supporting infantry is no longer viable, instead Armour will sit at view range lobbing FRAG rounds (with ridiculous splash radius). If that inf squad happens to benefit from the engagement it's entirely incidental, I'm afraid the change has forced smart crews to adapt tactics that don't lend themselves nicely to combined arms assaults.

There are too many hard-counters to Tanks and APCs in-game atm. With the nerf of zoom, repairs taking substantially longer, the traverse speed limit, and more importantly the excess input issues with the traverse limit, Armour has been hit hard with the nerf bat.

It hasn't really impacted the abilities of more skilled crews, but it has hindered the options available to an unacceptable level for a vocal portion of them. The gap between newbies and veterans is larger than ever, giving a deviation indicator won't always get new guys to stop spraying but it sure as hell gives competent players a way to avoid making any mistakes at all.

It feels like a fair few of the changes were done from a single perspective without ever stepping back to question the motives and consequences. I understand a finer balance can only be achieved through experimentation, but why undermine the results of about ten years? I feel the question to be posed is "Does PR really need this" instead of "How much more content can we cram in". PR is bloated with issues as it stands why not address lingering problems and focus on the less glorious task of perfecting what has been built up to this point? Why is there a debate about Aesthetics vs Features? How is that even an issue to discuss? Is it that the DEV team feels PR is a testing/proving ground for their own personal goals? You should put out work that is as close to perfect as you can achieve instead of pumping out more candy for a fickle crowd of players at the risk of alienating the players that have stuck around for the long haul. If there is a bugged feature (like traverse speed) I'm sure the testers found it and reported it, yet it was still pushed out the door. Was it expected that people playing the game 4-8 hours a day wouldn't notice such a huge bug, or was it believed that if you tell the playerbase to adapt and treat us like children we would drop the issue?

I know plenty of players that are losing faith in the process and despite the powers that be thinking the critics are wrong, dumb or whatever, each of those players has a valid point to be made. Unfortunately most of their voices won't be heard as they don't troll these forums, or have expressed their views only to be shot down and dismissed by people unwilling to accept criticism. 1.3.5 was a massive let down as far as updates go. Sure you provided us with some beautiful maps and a **** tonne of tweaks to an amazing array of gameplay elements (kits, UI, asset layouts just to name a few), but it was all overshadowed by even more stability issues and bugs that may have seemed minor to the DEV team but are unacceptable by the standards of a 10 year mod with such a strong and loyal playerbase.

Stop trying to placate the forum posters who are going out of our way in an attempt to correct the perceived course of development. Thank you for pushing the hotfixes out and thanks to everyone continue to put all the work into PR. We know you guys are capable of incredible feats of coding/art, stop allowing substandard work to make it to a public build.

Ok we're kinda going in circles here. Take a hint guys.
If multiple devs say "oh i wouldn't be suprised if the turret traverse was reverted" it's probably a clue wouldn't you say?

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote: Do note that we plan another patch later this week to fix remaining issues. So don't be alarmed if something isn't fixed or tweaked yet. Certain issues take time to repair and changes need to be tested by our testing team. Especially some bigger issues with lots of feedback.

If you feel my post is rehashing old issues please re-read and get passed the first paragraph.

Was responding to your first paragraph, and everyone else reiterating the fact they dislike the turret changes. Just thought i'd save people some time that's all

[R-DEV]camo wrote:Ok we're kinda going in circles here. Take a hint guys.
If multiple devs say "oh i wouldn't be suprised if the turret traverse was reverted" it's probably a clue wouldn't you say?

He's talking about the general direction of PR, not just turret traverse speeds.

And honestly Murphy's views are an accurate reflection of many, many vets since the update. Call us elitist or whatever you want to, but the vast majority of the people I've been playing with for years think this patch is just odd and doesn't fit with what the vision of PR has been over the last ten years.

This is probably falling on deaf ears, but a majority of the changes implemented were unneeded and come across as Murphy says, "how much more content can we cram in?" Get on the servers and ask people about it, you'll hear what we've been saying echoed by many others.

The gameplay of the mod has been altered when there were no glaring issues with it in the first place. All 1.3.5 has done is undo the polish that you guys have been working so hard on for years. An update that was supposed to 've concentrated on fixes, yet I've encountered more bugs in this update than I have in the entire span of time since you dropped 1.0.

Hell, I guess this is slightly pathetic but I've probably nearly doubled my post count on these forums since 1.3.5 and I've been here for nine years. A lot of us are just saying what many others are too lazy to get on the forums and say themselves.

Also, how do I apply to become a tester? I might as well with how many bugs I've been hunting down since the update.

Chefmoto1 wrote:He's talking about the general direction of PR, not just turret traverse speeds.

Yeah well aware of that, i was just responding to his turret concerns.

Chefmoto1 wrote:And honestly Murphy's views are an accurate reflection of many, many vets since the update. Call us elitist or whatever you want to, but the vast majority of the people I've been playing with for years think this patch is just odd and doesn't fit with what the vision of PR has been over the last ten years.

2 changes to gameplay that people dislike isn't really going to utterly destroy "pr's vision". I understand the frustration of two gameplay changes but it's not all doom and gloom as murphy paints it out to be. The direction of pr hasn't fallen off the rails simply because of a few contested changes. Plus the little hints of "pr devs are just doing it for their selfish needs" tend to not go down so well. (cos you know free mod, free time, for free)

Chefmoto1 wrote:This is probably falling on deaf ears, but a majority of the changes implemented were unneeded and come across as Murphy says, "how much more content can we cram in?" Get on the servers and ask people about it, you'll hear what we've been saying echoed by many others.

No it's not falling on deaf ears, half of us live pretty much live on this forum it's hard to ignor

Chefmoto1 wrote:An update that was supposed to 've concentrated on fixes, yet I've encountered more bugs in this update than I have in the entire span of time since you dropped 1.0.

I suspect you're actually just noticing them more now. I've actually had the opposite impression about 1.3.5 compared to earlier releases. It's still not good that there's so many bugs but there's always loads of bugs with each release, it's impossible to test everything, things just get missed. Hence why there's always hotfixes after each release.
For example the stair cases on the l-shape building, people ask "why was this allowed to be released like this?" But why would we test that building? It's never been like that before so why should it be bugged now?

Chefmoto1 wrote:Also, how do I apply to become a tester? I might as well with how many bugs I've been hunting down since the update.

Click on the Project Reality drop down above and there should be a PR testing team application link.

[R-DEV]camo wrote:Yeah well aware of that, i was just responding to his turret concerns.


2 changes to gameplay that people dislike isn't really going to utterly destroy "pr's vision". I understand the frustration of two gameplay changes but it's not all doom and gloom as murphy paints it out to be. The direction of pr hasn't fallen off the rails simply because of a few contested changes. Plus the little hints of "pr devs are just doing it for their selfish needs" tend to not go down so well. (cos you know free mod, free time, for free)


No it's not falling on deaf ears, half of us live pretty much live on this forum it's hard to ignor

I suspect you're actually just noticing them more now. I've actually had the opposite impression about 1.3.5 compared to earlier releases. It's still not good that there's so many bugs but there's always loads of bugs with each release, it's impossible to test everything, things just get missed. Hence why there's always hotfixes after each release.
For example the stair cases on the l-shape building, people ask "why was this allowed to be released like this?" But why would we test that building? It's never been like that before so why should it be bugged now?


Click on the Project Reality drop down above and there should be a PR testing team application link.

I'm by no means claiming the vision of PR has been destroyed, just saying that it seems to be heading in a new direction if this update is something we can draw conclusions from. And I'm definitely not implying the changes are being done because of "dev's selfish needs." I appreciate all the years and thousands of hours all the devs have poured into this mod and made it what it is. Just because I disagree with some new changes doesn't mean I have issues with the dev team.

Who knows, you may be right on me just paying attention more to the bugs, but I think a bit of that is also to do with the fact that some of the new bugs are a lot more obvious. Bugs on the new maps I have no problem with, I know that's to be expected.

Anyways thanks, I'll apply to be a tester soon.