Project Reality Forums

LekyIRL wrote:damn!!
I hope I don't play like a smacktard when I download 0.6.....

Don't worry, most true smacktards will swear up and down that they don't play like smacktards and that us tactical gamers are retards.

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:@Hardcampa...... if you were the SL then I would have voluntarily put myself at your command.
If you prove inept in that position I would leave the squad.
That is one of the maturity issues that Ghost was talking about.
If you join a squad then you follow orders.
I have to admit that the same is not true of the CO.
There are not enough CO's that see the big picture and I will not always obey a CO's order although I will usually tell him why.
Case in point. a week or so ago on Mestia.
4 full squads ....3 trying to get West Tower back and my squad holding East.
The Brits were not hitting us very hard and the CO ordered us to attack the Brit main.
I refused, point blank.
I sent some people down the eastern border and whoah! what do you ...the Brits were flanking on up.
If we had obeyed orders the Brits would have taken East tower w/ little or no difficulty, destroyed the spawn and moved on.
I'm not saying the CO was a smacktard but it is far more complex to be the CO than it is the SL and SL have to think for themselves.

You know, I wish more squads did this. When I'm the commander, I rarely give squads orders. More often, I tell them what needs to be done, and ask them if they can do it. It might be unrealistic, but then, consider that in real life the commander would probably have a better idea about a squad's capabilities, current equipment, and the situation on the ground (squads would actually report back with sitreps, relaying information about the size, composition and movement of enemy forces they were engaging/being engaged by). With the PR commander, only thing you can be sure is that you'll get a bunch of dots on the map. It's nice when all the dots are together and have a waypoint set, but sometimes the dots have a waypoint set one one side of the map, and are scattered on the other side of the map, with a green jet flying off somewhere. I use VoIP a lot when commanding, and never give an order without talking to someone first. However, even that doesn't help. 70% of SLs are usually non-responsive. Some might have VoIP but be reluctant to use it, while most either completely ignore me or don't speak English (and I'm not playing on non-English-speaking server either). What's worse, sometimes I'll give them a waypoint to point something out, instead of giving an order, and they'll just go and execute the order given by the waypoint. A good example would be mixed squads with air support (as commander, I hate those), where I give a target to the SL in hopes he'll relay it to the CAS aircraft, only to find out, 5 minutes later, that the entire squad decided to head to that one tank.

On top of that, lately, I've been getting tons of spam from people who do not appreciate the commanding part of the commander position, and instead want me to magically spawn bunkers while under fire, without having even one shovel with me.

Cool, lots of problems, no solutions

Come on guys!

Bigmoose

Wow, this thread is still alive.

First off:

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:You vastly overestimate your impact on me and probably on most things.

LOL

Back on topic: I am not sure, but one of the reasons why people don't play CO, or try is the fact that half of the players want to goof around and have fun. The other half want it to simulate a real combat. (Same goes for SL).

If you mess up the military buffs yells at you and the other half just ignores your orders. Now, if we could only reach the same conclusion: It's alright. Let them.

Here is the real challenge: Figuring out who wants simulation (wicked laugh) and who is just out for "kiss kiss bang-bang". Now work with what you have.

Oh, and if you see a person go as CO that never have been one before - do us all a favour, let him know how he accepts arty strike. Don't ***** about "RTFM" - just type it quickly. Maybe he gets a taste for it and finds out he wants to go commander again.

Well, the solution is quite obvious actually. Play the game as intended. Follow your SL and Commander. Not only attack cps, but make sure that those already under your control are well defended. The basic concept is not rocket science, its playing as a coherent and cohesive team to those ends.

If you're playing just to see your kill tally go higher, then you are not necessarily contributing to the success of your team. If you're doing what you want instead of what is necessary to win, you're contributing to the lose of the match.

What I never have understood is the complete disregard on how people want to play a FREE mod. It is downright arrogant and actually selfish.

Not saying this applies to {GD}Ghost, but on other occasion when some folks yell about teamwork they are actually saying: "You *****, keep me (alive, resupplied, fix my car/tank/apc) so I can do some incredible uber killing and brag about it for weeks on end while you get no credit."

(sorry rant - back on topic) ... The mod is more fun when every body pitches in while in a squad and help each other out. But what you have to keep in mind is that not everybody wants to talk to complete strangers on VOIP. One example of why could be because they don't think they speak english well enough.

Or, not everybody wants to sit still in one position for 20 minutes waiting for something that never shows up.

Or never get to try out that tempting hardware we have in the game.

We have quite a few casual gamers who don't want to be in a clan, or have their own server they can lock and mock about. Or know about the possibility of starting a singleplayer server (and how to do it - you have to read 5 threads to get that right).

What it takes is an SL who understands the dynamic of his/her squad and can adapt to their way of playing. Then make use of that and bring his/her squad in a position where they can really shine.

Do that for a round or two, suddenly you have 6 people willing to work together to get results, and follow your orders. What some military folks try to get across in other threads is that leaders are not born, they are made (I disagree on that point, but thats another thread). It takes people skills. Get that right, and you can suddenly get the two distinct player groups to game "as a team".

Hx.Clavdivs wrote: Do that for a round or two, suddenly you have 6 people willing to work together to get results, and follow your orders. What some military folks try to get across in other threads is that leaders are not born, they are made (I disagree on that point, but thats another thread).

That's right, they're born, and in very little numbers.

Well actually, average to good leaders can be taught. The very finest and the best are born. Oh well, average will just have to do.

For the most part, I agree with you ClavDivs, but alot of people come to the game with the wrong mindset.

This isn't CS and though it looks similar to vBF2, it is not BF2. Games like BF2 cater to a different style of gameplay that is successful in BF2 in most cases. Problems arrive when they try to play BF2 style in PR. This is frustrating to people who understand that it actually requires and different play style which includes close cooperation and teamwork across the board to be successful. When trying to educate people of this point, most times, we get some smart *** comment or are verbally given "the finger'.

Imagine playing on a basketball team where one or two players just refused to follow the plays and always did their own thing and you end up losing the game. Then, when you try to address the problem, they start talking smack to you like YOU'RE the one with the problem. I don't think that anyone is trying to tell anyone exactly how to play, but there are things that work and things that don't work. Trying to educate people on the general principals that work is neither wrong or arrogant. It is just the facts.

As far as sitting around and waiting for something to happen, (or what i like to call defense) I can see how this can be not exciting, but it is necessary for organized and successful operation. I don't mind defending a CP because I know that eventually, the enemy will come to me and I will be able to engage them on my terms....and at the same time, I am allowing the attacking squads to concentrate on taking the other CPs and not have go be running back and forth between 2 and 3 cps trying to keep them captured. On that, my theory is this: Someone should always be defending the CP(s) directly behind the CP(s) being assaulted. Meaning that if CP "C" is being assaulted, CP "B" should be well defended. Once CP "C" is taken, defense should move up to CP "C" and assault moves on to assault CP "D".

If no one is defending key areas, your team is gonna have alot of pooches running around with sore asses.

{GD}Ghost, I agree on every point you make in your post, except ...

... ah bah! I was gonna make a long post. I'll cut it short. I agree, but what some people (not saying that is you) forget that this is a game. Sometimes, even the most experienced PR player goes complete nutters on ya.

Then we have the new players. As I started my previous post - we all love PR for the fact that we can get some pretty good games in regards of teamwork. And in my humble opinion, if we truly shine in teamwork, then they will want to do the same.

For example: I had one new guy joining in on a Helix squad while we where mucking about. For some reason or other, the team as a whole lost the round. The next round, we got our act together. I'm not entirely sure is I exaggerate when I say that in 1 minute at least 45 "messages" was voiped. Everybody responding to their surroundings, threats, what the team was doing, what we where doing. After 25 minutes this new guy just stated: "Holy sh.., this is some hardcore teamwork". He got reprimanded for making a statement not relevant to the game . And that was just 3 hours ago.

All I am saying is, with proper leadership this mod shines. And when it does, we impress the heck out of "new" folks. They want to be a part of it.

Sorry, it ended up beeing a long post.

I know, I impressed one guy as Insurgent, when we shot down an A10, then got a Blackhawk point blank in face, he went down like fireworks...

I've only played a couple of games of PRMM, but I find myself extremely frustrated with it - because few people want to use any teamwork.

I'm playing on an Australian server (it appears to be the only server in Aus). I started out all the right way... joined a squad, said I was a newb, asked what was needed (SL didn't know/care so I went Rifleman), asked before spawning on the SL (was only his third game as well I found out). Slowly the squad filled up, we changed SL to a more experienced player... but the experience was mostly a letdown as the SL would run off ahead of everyone else and no matter how hard i tried to slow him down or stay with him, I always got separated. That seemed to be because I was advancing cautiously, rather than the flatout sprint that seems to be the normal method. His method of setting a waypoint was to set it, then forget it for five minutes.

So anyway, different game different night, different squad... useless. In fact I think everyone on at that time thought they were back in BF2v. It was all about solo play, solo kills, and who could get the helicopters first. Since I don't fly (BF2 flight I could never master, haven't tried PRMM yet) I ended up having to drive myself to the front in a Hummer cause my SL was too busy camping the helipad to grab the attack chopper. The other squads were full and since it was only my second game, I didn't feel like I was qualified to lead a squad.

I'm desperately searching for teamwork, realism, and fun. While I'm finding realism (ie you die pretty quickly) the rest, so far, not so much. I'm new so I have to stick at it, but nade spams still are the other of the day and I thought this mod was supposed to curtail that. And I seem to keep running into enemy who are also going solo, or at most in pairs. Maybe the rest of the squad are just behind but... it does't seem like it, as I'm lying there watching them go by.

I watched two days of ThePhotoshop's PRMM video diary on Youtube and was really impressed. THAT is what I want in this game.

Instead, I'm finding, it seems, more of the same from BF2v. It's not inspiring.

It is not a typical experience from my perspective but then I have more than 1 server to choose from.
Optix, what you have to hope for is that 3-4 experienced players end up on the same team and use the CO position and simply force teamwork on a few players.
When the other team gets' their arse handed to them on a plate people will learn the value of teamwork and begin to see the advantages that exist in PR only for those who work together.

I do honestly feel sorry for you because the spam fest you described is not at all typical of PR play and really hope you find the right group to let you enjoy PR as it is meant to be played.




OT Edit:
One example of why could be because they don't think they speak english well enough.
I would just like to point out that most English speakers are that in name only as they do not know or follow the rules that govern the language. They certainly don't know any other languages for the most part.
If you have an accent but can say the basic 20 words in English you need to convey important info, like up,down North south ...etc............SPEAK UP !!!!
I live in a metro area so people with barely understandable accents are a way of life and personally I have found I can communicate with almost anyone as long as they have 10-20 words of English.
SPEAK UP ..............Americans think foreign accents are sexy and cool and chic !!!!!

hi optix...if at all possible try to hop into the TG server..i play from japan with a ping of 250 and its ok..just better off as a support unit than a frontline fighter as people will always get about a 1second drop on you due to ping (it true really!)

I actually like playing on the Bigd server out of aus...sometimes some good gameplay..

BUT..i have to be honest with you all...some of the most experience regular players are the most terribly boring to play with because they play too much..they have built patterns adn strategies for every square inch of every map...are they just chase after this or that objective but i have no idea what/where they are doing/going...!!!!!

so yeah. its a craps shoot somtimes

some of the most experience regular players are the most terribly boring to play with because they play too much
What is worse is when you have saturated to the level that if the first 2 flags don't go down according to plan you are instantly bored and listless because you know exactly what is going to happen for the next 2 hours.

The general release of .6 should change that for a while as the OB players mix with the .5 only players and new tactics and strategies will develop for a few days.

Optix , check out my post regarding playable pings and you might be pleasantly surprised on how many servers you can play on. Apparently 200's are playable as PRM doesn't rely on the twitch reaction nearly as much as many other FPS's.

I too am in the same boat wanting what I saw on UTube but the hard truth is that all games are flooded with Rambo type players. Even Armed Assault , which purports to be the most realistic game on the market today and apparently is used by the military for training is/will be infested with these players.

I'm unfortunately still playing Ver5 as after 4 failed attempt of 4 hours DL to be disconnected and streaming at 12 hours..no way..I decided to wait until the final release to fight with my connection and DL.

I had a tough time at first adapting to the total teamwork aspect , coming from DoD and Red Orchestra , and I too was probably one of those Rambo players people discussed but I'm keenly interested in playing the game the way it was meant to be played so am SLOWLY loosing the old game play habits that are no longer applicable.

Keep chugging away..sooner or later you will stumble upon one of those magical squads that work as one cohesive unit. I did and believe me , it's well worth the wait and effort. I was sorry when the map ended and the squad got disbanded.

Remember it not WHAT you play but WHO you play with.

TG's server so far has been the most satisfying gaming experience and as soon as I get Ver6 I'm going back there but there definitely are other servers out there that offer the same caliber of game play. One simply has to look.

Oh and BTW - even on the TG server you will find squads of Rambo's with no leadership or support so even one of the top ranked servers get them too.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.

It always rubs me the wrong way when people use the excuse: "This is just a game".

Well, most of us normal people are aware of this. But as in any game, there are certain rules and tactics that need to be ahered to in order to be successful and these rules and tactics will change from one game to the next.

I'll use the example of sports that I used before. You can't play basketball with football rules and expect to be accepted or successful. Sure, it is just a game, but you still have to play by the rules and tactics of that game if you expect to have a chance at winning. Now some people get this concept and others don't. It is what it is.

I do agree that some people are a little too hardcore about things and get a little anal about things that have little or nothing to do with cohesive teamwork and tactical operations. These people need to relax a little bit.

However this is the situation: PR represents war situations. We are presented with an enemy that is trying to win as much as we are trying to win. It is not the team that shoots more bullets that wins, but the team that is more organized and tactically superior that wins. I know, its a strange concept to people with little discipline in gaming, but like I said, this is how the game is intended to be played. Don't expect the game to cater to a less disciplined way of playing when you clearly know that it is clearly developed to require some discipline and organization between players.

Outlawz wrote:I know, I impressed one guy as Insurgent, when we shot down an A10, then got a Blackhawk point blank in face, he went down like fireworks...

hey! that was me! I remember 2 direct shots SA-7(?) from near-facility rooftop. Yep...nice

you guys are 100% right, without a teamwork this mod suffers badly;
I can say now that about 70%, heck make it 80%, squads i've been a part of so far didn't have any, or proper leadership. Everyone is then chaotic and doesn't give any constructive input. Sad but true

c u on thors

It seems to me that Teamwork is naturally improving. Lonewolf playing leaves so incredibly vulnerable now. Longer engagements, better hitboxs, and slower movements done allow you to survive alone and cover all your bases. Man power+teamwork is truly way more effective these days and lonewolfing is just stupid for the most part. I love this, its like a natural tutor for the game. Guys run around on their own and die from no where etc...when they do squad up, then they get in good fire fights...survive longer and perform much better...plus they ultimately learn the game so much faster. Pretty soon we wont hear "What the hell is the shovel for?!?" anymore