Project Reality Forums

The permanent rally system does not foster measured teamwork.

In the current version, there is much less incentive to be careful, wait for a medic, and stay with the squad, simply because there is a rally point 200m to the rear.

Why not just spawn back in and rush towards the fight again, and again, and again? The rush of battle starts to become the only incentive (see CoD, MW, etc.).

If you believe the lack of rally points make PR "slow", this is due to you playing on servers or with teams that aren't teamwork oriented. If your team has a logistics squad, transport squads, and APC squads that actually perform the APC role rather than acting like tanks, then the game is plenty fast. Teamwork is required, though.

Permanent rally points support rushed, individualistic play, not teamwork.

Imo, Rally points are much better than fob's, since they can easily be overrun, while fob's require c4's to be destroyed.
Im an old time PR player, so i "grew up" with RP's, i realy like how it enable's your squad to stay togheter, but you guys need to increase the distance of the overrun

One thing that is annoying me is that Firebase's, Hideout's and RP's need to be overruned from farther distance, since i usualy get closer to a hideout(or fb) with my squad, and enemies just keep pooping from that place, even tough the distance is just like one street afar from the Hideout

So my sugestion is:
Keep Rp's
Increase the distance needed to overrun all the player placed spawn points (fb/rp/hideout) (let's say the firabase is overruned if 2 enemies are 50 meter close, make it overruned if the enemy is 200 meter close)

That is all

MADsqirrel wrote:Then please do.

When I get home I will.

Please put a pool on it so i can see where do we stand on this, we have a pool on binoculars so why not for this one?. From what i see, someone is pushing really hard on that infinite RP idea, even though it's very bad for the game for many reasons listed above me.
I found that change of 250% overrun range increase as very funny joke, or act of ignorance.

yeah I agree, there must be a dev or something hell bent on putting this in the game, this is like the 5th time its been tried. I want this to be the last time. Can we permanently decide that this is a bad feature? Cause we've had this conversation like 20 times and each time its been unanimously voted against.

Please put a pool on it so i can see where do we stand on this

People(including me) are obviously stand against it, but that's what happens with changes like that, people need some time to get used to it to actually see if it's bad or good. My opinion - we should have a vote on this matter, sure, but not right now, let's have it in the last day of this open beta, let's give us some more time to try those changes before expressing our opinion about them through vote.
Also I wish this open beta was longer. Like one week we play without binos and with infinite rallies and another week we play the old way. That way we can really decide for ourselves if those changes are bad or good in context of PR 1.0.

a question regarding the mumble crashes: would it help if we submit the crash logs and if yes where?

I noticed that some maps are very good for permanent rallypoints. (f.e. Black Gold INS)

Unhealed wrote:No, you're wrong on this one, bru. It's not only his opinion that RO2 is a casual(and broken) game.
Send him a PM or something don't discuss it here, okay?

Casual and broken? Yeah, right....

Keep the feedback coming! Next build will likely have revisions to reduce their effectiveness from current build.

Played another round on Ramiel as ARF.
This was the first time for me too see problems with the permanent RPs.

We where defending a cache in the northwestern corner of the map with a few other squads and mostly spawn on the cache. But after a while some americans got close to it and the cache wasnt spawnable.
The other squads rallys got overun fast and I placed a RP right next to the cache (used it like in 0.98 so my dead dead SM could respawn.)
Suddenly my squad was the only one left on the cache and Americans where pushing hard towards it, with stryker support from the north.
They would have killed the cache in maybe 5 min but my RP gave my a endless supply on men...
It took the enemy around 20 min to overun our RP (at the beginning of the fights they where max 200m away) and 5 more minutes to kill the cache.
My squad started the fight with something like 5 - 5 and after the destruction of the cache had 24 - 63.
I admitt that this shouldnt be happening.

I will think over ways to change RPs. Maybe increasing the overrun radius or make it stay for a specific amount of time is indeed a better way.

I still think a 2 minute time limit with 10 minutes to wait for a new one after is best. That way if a large part of the squad dies the SL can put one down to keep gameplay going, but can have an endless flood of his squad re spawning.

[R-DEV]Jafar Ironclad wrote:Keep the feedback coming! Next build will likely have revisions to reduce their effectiveness from current build.

IMO a "reduction of effectiveness" isn't good enough, reversion to .98 is all that's needed to fix them. Make the overrun radius too large and they become completely redundant. Too small and it's back to the problems we've spent 10 pages pointing out. I can't see a middle ground. Maybe make them last a bit longer than .98 with a smaller overrun and they'll be useful for their original intention which is to reinforce a decimated squad.

I think permanent rallys are a good idea but need some tweaking (greater overrun radius and more Sqmembers to place at least).
From what I saw, they encourage flanking tactics and keep the Sqs focused on the current objectives (flags and caches) instead of having to permanently take care of FOBs.
They also soften the effect of being massacred by trenched defenses so if you want a second chance to confront them you can do it at the risk of losing more tickets but without having to do all the lost progress again to reach the position. In that way we can say RPs get general advance less repetitive.
They give the Inf sq some comfortable and fair independance.
Its not true it makes players "give up", this is players fault purely.

I did some thinking about the RPs. Permanent rallys as they are now are indeed bad for gameplay. Things that can be changed on the RP would be:

-back to 0.98 RP (1 min up; requires only 1 SM; needs 5 min to deploy it again or reload on a FOB.)
-Increase overrun distance (up to 300m on 4 km and at last 100 on 1 km maps.)
-Make it non permanent (everything frome 1 - 20 min possible here)

IMO a bit updated 0.98 system could work great:
RPs still need 2 SMs to place it; overrun radius bigger (between 150-200m); RP up for 1-2mins only; SL can always deploy it (no need to rearm it on FOB or wait 5 mins.)

No lemming spawning possible this way; if the SL manages to fall back with 2 survivors they can attack again.

The RP would be easy to use for attackers and harder to use for static defenders (not sure if that is good or bad)

Its not true it makes players "give up", this is players fault purely.

You may be right, but yesterday I saw myself in a situation where I couldnt do anything more than spam the enemy to protect the cache with my RP. And I guarantee you that if you can spawn in such a situation, you will.
Normaly i encourage not giving up on my SMs.

I also think that rally points destroy the core gameplay. In my opinion building up the logistics and FOBs is the main part of the early gameplay and the base of a successful game. RPs make this part of the game, which many people love, just obsolete.

I think RPs deserve to get integrated and have a good use, but not as a permanent spawn point. I think RPs are meant to gather your squad, so their use should be limited to this.

I can think of 2 typical situations for RPs

1) The squad is moving from one objective to another and a new member joins or a squadmate dies because of an accident/bug/whatever. The rally point gets put down, the squad is complete and ready to operate.

2) The squad is fighting and loosing men. The squadleader makes the decision to fall back far, which means to completely disengage from the objective, set a rally points in a safe territory and gather the squad again. Now the squad is fully operational again. This should take 3 to 5 minutes. This means that a repelled attack really is repelled. The defending team can revive their teammates, get ammunition, build defenses and get into better defending positions.

These are the steps I think would help.

. Non-permanent rally points, expire after 1 or 2 minutes.
. Reload time greater than 10 mins or reload at FOB
. Unable to deploy when enemies are within 300 - 500 m
. Optional: Only deployable within range of a FOB (1000 - 2000 m max) This means that a squad can't hide behind enemy lines and get a full squad going.

Rally points are a great asset, but FOBs are the spawn points, nothing else should replace it, else all the nice logistic system is useless. It should be rewarding when the enemy is cut off.

Played a game on Ramiel as American and have to agree with people here. It feels like the older version. We hardly needed the FOB in the north of the city because our RP was spawnable and was closer when attacking a cache halfway in the city.

I dont think its bad perse, but it certainly is different. It helps keeping the squad together, as the FOB in the north was "far" away. But its easy to give up. I did it myself as well. Noticed the medic was down and people where trying to revive him and thought: feck it! I'll just respawn so I can cover them when they revive the medic.

As an SL I orded people to respawn on the RP as well instead of wait for a medic and risk another 3 tickets (there own death and the death of the medic). If the situation was tense enough that is.

I did a logy squad on fools as brit tonight driving about.

No one asked for crates not once I even went to an eight man squad and asked on local - err yeah just leave one there then they walked past me without building one.

One FOB was built by someone other than me, it was all rallies. Crazy as of course FOB has a crate for AT kits etc. Also rare to see trans helis atm, I know it's a beta with urgency as its a week only but this feels wrong for PR. Makes rounds way too quick had a few that were over in 30mins tonight.

Ditch permanent rallies if it's to slow they are easy to bring back or adjust with super updater. Or slowly reduce them to keep more players around?

Saarema yesterday, map looked like this most of the time:

I remember RP beeing permanent as I started with PR @ its version 0.5 once- and afaik they were still permanent lot's of versions later :>
Maybe it's just the nostalgia which makes me think this old times had their own charme when u always kept one ear open if anyone hears a RP somewhere, but at least I remember there was not even 10% of this huge bunch of criticism which falls down on the new system now.

I think both system have their advantages and disadvantages- but besides them u could say, the supporters of the new system can also live with the old one for sure, but the supporter of the old system will hate the new one if it stays.

So I think it might be better if u bring back the old system, just because of the aspect of holding the community together aswell.