Why do you hate mumble?

[Mongolian_dude]

My main arguments are:

-PR + Mumble doesn't bring anything new or amazing to the table in terms of comms realism. Really all it adds is positional audio. That's it.
-Hearing a Chinese/MEC/Russian enemy speaking in perfect English kills realism for me

The flaws in aforementioned arguments are:

-PR + Mumble dont bring anything new or amazing to you.
For many of us, being able to effectively lead, sustain and an effective, multiple-squad unit is made possible by mumble. Perhaps you haven't seen a single force comprised of two MECH INF squads, two IFVs, a forward Recon squad, an Aircraft CAS squad and an MBT; all being orchestrated in real-time by a structured leadership, in formation and position, collaborating to prosecute the same target? And all of this not previously organised? Players just logged onto a server, planned in the 2:50 seconds prior allotted, executed and adapted?
I have, quite a few times and -no- other multi-player experience has come close to it for me.

And if it isn't just me, human (like the soldiers resembled in PR) hearing operates in "positional audio". If its more like real life, thats essentially more realistic.

-Team channels. If your hearing your enemy during a round, you haven't even experienced mumble in its optimum condition. With team channels, you don't hear one another if your enemies. Then people start actually using it properly to communicate, not living in the fear that your enemies can hear your every tactic in play and understand it.


I'm gonna have to start posting videos up so you guys get an idea of what its like when it really works.

:-X :-X :-X :-X self censored :-X :-X :-X :-X

This is what my tinfoil hat comment was about, man. No one is oppressing you, theres no need for defensive, passive-aggression. If your acting rather paranoid. If you have issues with other user's posting, report it and explain why.

"Frank, look. Nobody's chasing you"

-Carl Hanratty(Tom Hanks), Catch me if you can

You can whisper to channels/channel commands/clients/usergroups in TS3. The entire whisper system in TS3 is very well done.

Yes I was talking about actual players speaking perfect English in Mumble, yet being on some foreign OPFOR team. That ruins the game experience for me. I'd rather not hear them at all.

I find the Whisper system of TS very useful when I want to talk behind other players backs' or talk with other squad leaders. However, when you bring anyone else thats not an SL or above into play you face problems. Having everyone in two team channels with chnl commanders, or even having squad channels, you suffer information overloads/spillages.

If everyone is in one channel, then everyone can hear everyone. Essentially, the effect is 32 players all clustering comms at once, of which only private SL comms cant be heard. If thats the case, then there is no point in having all 32 players in TS, only the SLs are necessary; excluding the majority of players on the server from effectively extending their ability to communicate.

With squad channels, we face a similar problem, in that while SL whispers go only between SLs, chatter from grunts means an SL will have to silence his squad before he can hear his colleague officers. We had many problems with this during many previous PRT battles, where squads were forced to be silent and no communicate when an SLs wanted to talk to one another, or the CO above.
Mumble means that the SL can simply turn away from the troop or create distance in between them and he to communicate with other Officers. This also means his troop can carry on communicating and relaying information amongst themselves without interfering with the SL chat generall.
This has proved invaluable if a unit is divided into teams or sections, with sniper and spotters, AT Teams, machine-gunners and ammo-bearers can communicate to one another in the field, without intruding on other members of their unit(s).


And again, mumble team channels would prevent your experiences from being ruined.

I can base my opinions on anything I like, thank you very much.

The whole point of constructive criticism is that you base your opinions on your perception of the stimulus/stimuli and then voice them; while engaging in complimenting and criticising the validity of those voice by others. That is the nature of discussion/ the PR:BF2 General Discussion forum, so please keep the opinions you voice something similar to that.



...mongol...

[Lzryde]

Mongolian_dude;1463996']The flaws in aforementioned arguments are:

-PR + Mumble dont bring anything new or amazing to you.
For many of us, being able to effectively lead, sustain and an effective, multiple-squad unit is made possible by mumble. Perhaps you haven't seen a single force comprised of two MECH INF squads, two IFVs, a forward Recon squad, an Aircraft CAS squad and an MBT; all being orchestrated in real-time by a structured leadership, in formation and position, collaborating to prosecute the same target? And all of this not previously organised? Players just logged onto a server, planned in the 2:50 seconds prior allotted, executed and adapted?
I have, quite a few times and -no- other multi-player experience has come close to it for me.

And if it isn't just me, human (like the soldiers resembled in PR) hearing operates in "positional audio". If its more like real life, thats essentially more realistic.

-Team channels. If your hearing your enemy during a round, you haven't even experienced mumble in its optimum condition. With team channels, you don't hear one another if your enemies. Then people start actually using it properly to communicate, not living in the fear that your enemies can hear your every tactic in play and understand it.


I'm gonna have to start posting videos up so you guys get an idea of what its like when it really works.

Go play ARMA 2 with ACRE and you'll see what you're missing. ACRE can be classified as a military comms simulator. Mumble's BF2 plugin? Not even close.



I bet if TS3 was out when the devs decided a system like Mumble was needed, they would have chosen TS3 instead (assuming they knew how to make a plugin for bf2).

There is nothing Mumble can do that Teamspeak cannot.

I have nothing against Mumble or anyone who uses it, but it just genuinely pisses me off when people seem to think that Mumble's BF2 plugin is the cat's ***.

[Mongolian_dude]

Go play ARMA 2 with ACRE and you'll see what you're missing. ACRE can be classified as a military comms simulator. Mumble's BF2 plugin? Not even close.



I bet if TS3 was out when the devs decided a system like Mumble was needed, they would have chosen TS3 instead (assuming they knew how to make a plugin for bf2).

There is nothing Mumble can do that Teamspeak cannot.

I have nothing against Mumble or anyone who uses it, but it just genuinely pisses me off when people seem to think that Mumble's BF2 plugin is the cat's ***.

Hang on, it seems like TS3 just seems to have the same positional audio as Mumble, when coupled with a custom plugin. So would you like to explain what exactly people are missing out on by using mumble over TS3? The only differenced I could perceive from that video is that Mumble already works for PR and TS3 would require some work.


...mongol...

[Lzryde]

Hang on, it seems like TS3 just seems to have the same positional audio as Mumble, when coupled with a custom plugin. So would you like to explain what exactly people are missing out on by using mumble over TS3? The only differenced I could perceive from that video is that Mumble already works for PR and TS3 would require some work.


...mongol...

In terms of BF2, not much. Teamspeak 3 could do the same job as Mumble, possibly with some added feature such as the signal loss/distortion.

The devs had it easy for Mumble + PR. Since Mumble already had a plugin made for BF2 all they had to do was configure it and away you go. I believe if TS3 had it's own BF2 plugin the devs would definitely consider BF2.

Unfortunately, no one has given TS3 the same love in terms of plugins for games.

That video may be a little old and ACRE has had some amazing changes.

ACRE features: ACRE - Wiki - DH: (ArmA) Development Unraveled

I personally think the signal distortion/signal loss is absolutely amazing. The GUI's are great too, but that isn't due to the TS plugin, that is part of the addon files for they made for ARMA 2. But distortion/doppler effects are all possible through the TS3 plugin API.

[Mongolian_dude]

In terms of BF2, not much. Teamspeak 3 could do the same job as Mumble, possibly with some added feature such as the signal loss/distortion.

The devs had it easy for Mumble + PR. Since Mumble already had a plugin made for BF2 all they had to do was configure it and away you go. I believe if TS3 had it's own BF2 plugin the devs would definitely consider BF2.

Unfortunately, no one has given TS3 the same love in terms of plugins for games.

That video may be a little old and ACRE has had some amazing changes.

ACRE features: ACRE - Wiki - DH: (ArmA) Development Unraveled

I personally think the signal distortion/signal loss is absolutely amazing. The GUI's are great too, but that isn't due to the TS plugin, that is part of the addon files for they made for ARMA 2. But distortion/doppler effects are all possible through the TS3 plugin API.

Yes, that sounds fantastic and wonderful for a game as complex and paced as ARMA, but I feel some of those additional features would be wasted on PR. Theres no real need to compromise the current simplicity of it now for something aesthetic and novel. It wouldnt bring anything further to gameplay.
The success of BF2 and PR have been their ability to simply log onto a server and play. No prior organisation is needed.
Thus, some of the DEVs actually have time to play their own game!



...mongol...

[Cassius]

Go play ARMA 2 with ACRE and you'll see what you're missing. ACRE can be classified as a military comms simulator. Mumble's BF2 plugin? Not even close.


I bet if TS3 was out when the devs decided a system like Mumble was needed, they would have chosen TS3 instead (assuming they knew how to make a plugin for bf2).

There is nothing Mumble can do that Teamspeak cannot.

I have nothing against Mumble or anyone who uses it, but it just genuinely pisses me off when people seem to think that Mumble's BF2 plugin is the cat's ***.

At the time they packed mumble in the download there was no TS3 I reckon. The whole point is having a standard tool for the whole community for teamplay reasons. If you think the devs should bundle ACRE try to make your case with them. But for now mumble is better than nothing.

However at this point you seem to dislike mumble on an emotional level, because its causing you mental distress how the devs bundled it with the mod and said how great it is and other people tried it and say how great it is and that makes you dislike mumble and that cant be helped I guess.

[gazzthompson]

Lets see it from the point of a developer, would you chose to develop a closed (TS) or open (mumble) source program?

ACRE is awesome, and of course it has more features currently than PR:Mumble, it has a small team dedicated to its development. PR:Mumble has how many people working on it? 1? 2?

[-.-Maverick-.-]

Ok, ALL non-believers watch this video and then try to rage about anything!!

[Lzryde]

Adding radio squelch sounds or distortion just to make it sound like a radio wouldn't make PR any more complex, just more realistic. But as far as signal loss and any of those other features ACRE has, keep them in ACRE. You're right, the simplicity of PR is a beautiful thing that shouldn't be messed with.

However at this point you seem to dislike mumble on an emotional level, because its causing you mental distress how the devs bundled it with the mod and said how great it is and other people tried it and say how great it is and that makes you dislike mumble and that cant be helped I guess.

OK doctor. Take a breath.

Lets see it from the point of a developer, would you chose to develop a closed (TS) or open (mumble) source program??

I personally have never seen a clan/unit/team use Mumble as a voice server. It has always been either Ventrilo, TS2, or TS3. I actually haven't seen a Ventrilo or TS2 server since Teamspeak 3's release. Why is this? Because Teamspeak 3 is a well-known, world class, professionally made product.

Why do the devs need to edit the source code of Mumble? Is it because Mumble is lacking something important? Or just to hardcode the server ip/port in the settings?

The fact is, you DON'T need to edit the source code to add positional audio.

[Ford_Jam]

I personally have never seen a clan/unit/team use Mumble as a voice server. It has always been either Ventrilo, TS2, or TS3. I actually haven't seen a Ventrilo or TS2 server since Teamspeak 3's release. Why is this? Because Teamspeak 3 is a well-known, world class, professionally made product.

Why do the devs need to edit the source code of Mumble? Is it because Mumble is lacking something important? Or just to hardcode the server ip/port in the settings?

The fact is, you DON'T need to edit the source code to add positional audio.

That's subjective.
If you look around, you see entire community nights dedicated to the use of mumble. Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm acting captain of a PR team in Australia and I'm pretty sure all our mumbers use mumble which gives a full squad of us an amazing advantage over other squads and our enemy also allowing us fast access to transport and CAS. Additionally (not to omit anything), we also join the community TS3 channel for direct comms and non-mumble users.
So don't say that teams/clans don't use Mumble.

I know this is a bit of a stretch but, all your arguments seem to contradict PR in a way as well. Thinking about it, PR is not a well-known, world class, professionally made (We all know it is though) product compared to a game developed by a reknowned international studio. The same goes for your source-code argument. When the PR team makes greater steps towards the open-source C4 engine are you going to be there saying that they shouldn't have to change source code and should stick with BF2 and ARMA where their modding capabilities are limited?

Open-source is a good thing. I'd rather have the opportunity/ability to change something rather than be restricted by it when the time for change comes.

[Hitmanrules]

I think the problem may lie in the fact that there isn't a proper dedicated tutorial that goes with the install, I only understood it's usefulness and importance only after someone recommended it to me over VOIP and told me how to use it. Atm people are seeing that it's with the PR install but not really understanding why. I recommend a, proper, easy-to-use tutorial that comes with the PR install just to help the new players understand it's practicality. (If there is already then my mistake)

[Zerostar11]

Wuv mumble its amazing!

[kstep]

Dont use it cause it reduces voip and ingame sound volume; also they both can disappear when map is changed

using TS2 instead

[gazzthompson]

Dont use it cause it reduces voip and ingame sound volume; also they both can disappear when map is changed

using TS2 instead

Your on windows 7 I assume ? Im on my phone , but if I remember right, right click the windows sound icon bottom right > right click sounds > then click communications > click do nothing. This will stop windows lowering sounds when it detects mumble.

[Azametric(IRL)]

I cant use it due to the reality factor.

I am deaf on my right side... so if someone standing on my right says something, I can only hear the part transmitted through the left headphone speaker ( which is than very low volume).

Direct Communication / ambient sounds in Arma 2 is also a ***** - gotten me killed so many times - no wonder they dont leave half deaf people in the military

[sweedensniiperr]

sometimes when i alt-tab the game lags me out. what i do is first esc to meny and then alt-tab.

[doop-de-doo]

I think if a server really wanted to implement Mumble, they would turn the VoIP off (server-side).

Personally, since I can play using the default VoIP fairly well, I opt out of using Mumble -- unless the server requires it. As I don't have to open Mumble for most servers, it seems like extra work when I am required to use it.

Without wanting to draw the ire of the Mods -- I'm actually waiting for PR2 which should come with all these [3rd-party solutions] integral to the game.

[Vege]

When I can deny force center on the channel I choose and can mute people (and the programs stores those muted persons) I start to use mumble again.

[gazzthompson]

I think if a server really wanted to implement Mumble, they would turn the VoIP off (server-side).

Personally, since I can play using the default VoIP fairly well, I opt out of using Mumble -- unless the server requires it. As I don't have to open Mumble for most servers, it seems like extra work when I am required to use it.

Without wanting to draw the ire of the Mods -- I'm actually waiting for PR2 which should come with all these [3rd-party solutions] integral to the game.

Mumble is not ready to take over VoIP yet.... and your going to be waiting like 4-5 years probably... have fun.