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In my opinion unknown caches should have a ridiculous high hit-point value, that will prevent it from being taken out by 2 or 3 army guys until it is "known" (many changes has been made not to make PR be a spec ops game so it makes no sence for 2-3 army men to get the job done imo)

To me it doesn't make sense that Blue-for starts searching a "city" and stumble on a cache and take it out without resistance (they only act on Intel from locals or from surveillance anything else is pure luck)...... if you where an insurgent you wouldn't leave your precious "im angry with the world tools " unattended, so if they DO get so lucky they would have to call in a buck-load of demolition experts to take it out. if it is known then it should be how it is now.

I know that for reality it will not make sense (but it doesn't make sense already)... but it would improve game-play for insurgents IMO and it would remove the rage of games ending early because of ghosting .... or "noob" behavior of giving away the cache location.

Someone is probably gonna argue that this would make all attacks focused on the one known cache.... but I dont see the problem with that. It makes for a good firefight.

Technically I image this could be done by spawn caches with lets say 100.000 hit-points and by the time they get "known" it looses 90.000 hit-points (im not familiar with the actual values used in the game)

This way if the blue-for finds a cache it would reverse the roles... the US would have to defend the area until they get enough explosives to arrive or "Intel"... tbh it could make some interesting fights instead of just "BOOM" wtf? how did they find that cache?"

Gracler wrote:In my opinion unknown caches should have a ridiculous high hit-point value, that will prevent it from being taken out by 2 or 3 army guys until it is "known" (many changes has been made not to make PR be a spec ops game so it makes no sence for 2-3 army men to get the job done imo)

I dont see why. Didnt you ever stop to wonder why the devs have 2 caches spawn at any given time? It is very possible to defend the unkown cache as well. The insurgents can split their forces so none of the caches can be ninjaed, or at least leave a squad back to defend it and buy time if a squad trips over it.

Having 30 insurgents entrenched on the one known cache can make it very costly for the blueforce to take it out. There should be a drawback to that tactic, or do you disagree? Do you want to make a case for spawning only one cache at a time?

Spawning on an unkown or not is a tactical decision. It has advantages and disadvantages. It always drives me up the wall when the insurgent team is feeling smart for pouring all their defense in the one known cache hoping to set back the blueforce 200 tickets or so, but then rage when their strategy does not work out, because the blueforce decides its probably better to look for the undefended cache instead of facing the whole enemy team focused in one grid. And when 20 people search the map they have a decent chance to find the unkown in an reasonable ammount of time, especially with the limited ammount of enterable buildings.

Long story short, it should only be a kickable offense imo if there was an order not to spawn on the unkown.

There are 2 type of right methods to proceed around an unknown cache. You either defend in a compound with a view on the cache or you simply try to lure the enemy farther away.

Thing is, if you do one out of the two, you will still get scorched. It might not be as bad as staying in the same exact area of the cache or storming out with a rpg in your hands careless about nearby enemy movement, but it should still make Devs realize that INS players don't have a principle of defense. Nothing whatsoever that can lead the masses to a defensive pattern of thought.

If you spawn in the unknown cache, then people will scorch you for drawing unnecessary attention.
If you defend nearby the unknown cache, people will scorch you for drawing unnecessary attention.
If you try to lure the enemy far away and the unknown cache is destroyed, people will scorch the whole team for not defending properly.

Considering that the location of caches can be memorized or/and anticipated by the enemy, it's a flawed system.

I agree that the fight should be focused cache by cache instead of a couple of ones stretching the teams. Actually, it even stretches the INS more than Blufor, especially because the latter is often more organized and launch massive assaults while INS have solos planting mines/arties and a few others defending the unknown.
We have AASv.4, a similar system should already be in line for INS.

Killing ... kicking ..or even banning people for spawning on unknown caches is a weird behavior IMO. It really limits the insurgents strategies.

If people should be kicked for spawning or staying near an unknown cache, what about kicking people that are grabbing warhead rpg and cant hit a tank if they stand 10 meters from it? and kicking people that sit and hide behind a box because they don't want to be shot by the us.. or kicking people that play collaborator and just run around the city doing nothing.

You could kick the entire team pretty fast if you where looking closely on what everyone was doing.

normally the "tactical" minded players tend to only play as blue-for so the insurgents are crippled from the start, i don't see how punishing them even further is gonna help anything.

as i've said before, it is beneficial to spawn on an unknown. There seems to be an automatic assumption that anyone spawning on unknown is an idiot and is going to get spotted. not the case.

rulse of doing so are for me:
-moment i spawn, go prone. (so i'm only visible through any windows d=for a split second)
-take a kit if necesary (anything goes except RPGs)
-stay hidden (make sure there's no enemies that can possibly see you before you leave the building, and immediately move into another building and wait, continue till you're in an advantageous position moving between buildings.)

i have never given away an unknown, and have in many situations saved the unknown from patrolling Blufor.

Sgt.BountyOrig wrote:Hmmm...

On the insurgent map, the unknown purple marker is present, but theres no cache there and no spawn, then it turns blue and get the spawn location and the cache appears.

it's good for the second cache

Well, last night I did notice how spawning on unknown can be very wrong.
There was a guy who kept spawning on new caches that were close to the enemy, grabbed an RPG...and then started firing right next to the building with the cache

And when he died, he spawned back and picked up the kit again.


We lost pretty those unknowns pretty fast because of him....so it only works if you aren't a jackass.

[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 wrote:Got kicked from a server once for spawning on an unknown cache to set up defences for it.

When I rejoined the cache was taken down, and the bluefor said "Thanks for kicking the defenders".


That just grinds my gears.

This.

Its just a matter of place and time. Sometimes its a good idea to spawn on an unknown, sometimes it isn't. It's their server but personally I found that way too harsh.

It is enforced with a common sense aproach. If the blufor team is organised and are patroling to find caches then its best not to give them the clue by spawning on the cache. Shooting special cache only kits. If most squad leaders are in squad leader channel in mumble then a plan can be formed to spawn on the unknow as it has come to the ins attention that blufor are searching in that area. With good comms and a SL who knows what he is doing they can get a very good ambush planned and fend off the initial attack.

If either of the teams has poor comms or interlect and rounds like that do happen in PR as we all know. Then the best tactic for the good of the players that want to have team work is to keep the special kit hungry COD player off the unknown and get them to defend the known. This makes for a better game and new players then understand the importance of good defence and battlefield awareness. Then may be, next round, with experiance they will be the squad who the SL`s or commander sends to defend the unknown cache.

This is another point for enforced intergrated mumble to PR so squad leaders can organise themselfs, where, what and when a cache needs to be defended. As there are time the unknown needs to be coverd. But over all leaving it hidden in my opinion is the best for a longer game with better battles and more chance of a ins win..



May be we shouldnt enforce tactis on the team and let the round play out as they will. But dose this put the rest of the players who want team work and good tactics at a disadvantage if players spawn on unknown to defend a cache that dosent need defending. Thus giving it away.

Why have purple then blue markers for a cache if not to aid tactics.
Who should be left to make that decsision? Is it not best just to have a "do not spawn on unknown" rule?

Spawning on a "Unknown Cache" can be Good and Bad.

It can be bad for the obvious reasons, Blufor finding the cache's easier and the rounds ending quicker etc etc...

It can be good because, You can set up a defense and get prepaired for the Blufor to attack when it becomes known.
Another reason is alot of servers have ghosters on lately, which is very annoying!


A good thing they could introduce is. No spawn points on any Unknowns, Only when it when becomes Known to the INS, because you still have 5 minutes to prepair defense till the blufor see it Known on the map.
And another thing they could do, Is dont spawn special kits on any Unknowns, only when it becomes known to the INS then spawn kits.

Mad-Mike wrote:
A good thing they could introduce is. No spawn points on any Unknowns, Only when it when becomes Known because you still have 5 minutes to prepair defense till the blufor see it Known on the map.
And another thing they could do, Is dont spawn special kits on any Unknowns, only when it becomes known to the INS then spawn kits.

+1

Increase the special kits at the ins main, so ins can still defend against heavy assets out on the battle field. This will reduce the spawn grab run get spotted aproch that is happening now.
Making fake caches would then be alot easier as every out post that the blufor see they would have to assume that there is a cache near by. Until they get the intel. Then opfor have to defend and blufor will have to make probing attack to gain intel points to get the intel and confirm the location but not get to close to bleed tickets when losing assets.. Would make for a very good game.

\but its a tough call as ins rushing to defend the area of a uinknown will have the effect of drawing the blufor there as well.

I think its going to stay the way it is as its been devoloped over several years. Each server to there own and each player to there fav server.

Sidewinder brings up a very good point, but unfortunately its not the experienced player who most time spawns at the unknowns... I can suspect that due to previous experience that server implemented that rule, and I don't blame them it kills the game.

Now the only way I see to justify Ny's action would be if there was a CO on duty and let him know so that the CO could assign a sq to protecting that unknown... Other than that the cache was compromised, by not spawning at that location there was a high chance the enemy would have walked right passed it and never would have known about it.

I used to think no one should spawn on unknowns but lately it seems like 50% or more of the caches destroyed are unknown so i have changed my opinion. I think the insurgents should defend all caches as if they are known. half an insurgent team defending each cache will make things a lot tougher on blufor.

get rid of the unknowns, they are pointless...

BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:I used to think no one should spawn on unknowns but lately it seems like 50% or more of the caches destroyed are unknown so i have changed my opinion. I think the insurgents should defend all caches as if they are known. half an insurgent team defending each cache will make things a lot tougher on blufor.

get rid of the unknowns, they are pointless...

This...

It's situational. People act as if the person spawning on it is always doing the wrong thing. There are many times when an enemy squad already knows the location of the cache and all you're doing is trying to fend them off.

It's a different story if you spawn on an unknown that has just spawned.

Bringerof_D wrote:as i've said before, it is beneficial to spawn on an unknown. There seems to be an automatic assumption that anyone spawning on unknown is an idiot and is going to get spotted. not the case.

rulse of doing so are for me:
-moment i spawn, go prone. (so i'm only visible through any windows d=for a split second)
-take a kit if necesary (anything goes except RPGs)
-stay hidden (make sure there's no enemies that can possibly see you before you leave the building, and immediately move into another building and wait, continue till you're in an advantageous position moving between buildings.)

i have never given away an unknown, and have in many situations saved the unknown from patrolling Blufor.

So, the cache is somewhere in the middle of Fallujah, Are u telling me that you check every visible corner, bush, roof, window etc before you move?

There is no chance in hell you can make sure you have made 100% sure no1 is watching.

The most powerful weapon in war is you brain.

2 examples on finding an unknown because of players spawning on it.

Falluja: Im a bit south of the compound called"hospital or Red Cross" just north of the arches. I see an rpg come running from west towards the east. I go look in the compound north of blurfor main and behold I find a cache.

Basrah: The open area just east of gas-station. I Find the enemy mortars there and try to take them out. I kill one guy, and place c4, reloads, and 1? min later i get killed by some one coming from the east.
I respawn and go look and the compounds just across the road. What do I find? A cache.

It takes so little to find the cache when ins are spawning on it.

How would you react as bluefor, if an player would recklessly drive an apc up next to a cache and lose it. Now think of this apc worth 50 tickets, with 450 tickets when the round starts thats the same as 7 caches.

How fast would that game end, if 2-3 acps got lost like that?

BrownBadger wrote:It's situational. People act as if the person spawning on it is always doing the wrong thing. There are many times when an enemy squad already knows the location of the cache and all you're doing is trying to fend them off.

It's a different story if you spawn on an unknown that has just spawned.

Use mumble and follow your Squad leader.

This is sq 1 we have enemy near the unknow my squad is going there to defend. All other sl`s and no doubt one of them is a admin or has a admin in one of the squads. Ok squad sq1 has intel of enemy at unknow we are staying here and they are moving out to defend it.

Its the loan wolfs or squad with poor comms that do the unknown spawning.

There is a stigma attached to spawing at the Unknown that means most players are reluctant to do it.

But players still do, despite the stigma, and I believe that's usually because there are no spawns apart from Main [which is probably a long walk]. People would rather spawn at Unknown despite feeling bad about it than spawn at Main and walk for 15mins to a firefight that is being lost.

It is what it is. insurgent SL's need to stop using PKM, RPK and RPG kits and get on-side by doing the'boring' SL stuff that is taking civvy kit and building FOB's. It's really not rocket science to walk for 5mins and place a fob.

So yeah, in the ideal world a Squad would co-ordinate with the team and set up an emergency FOB about 200-300m away from the unknown. Then move on. That way anyone spawning at the Unknown is for sure a reckless kit-whore, and Unknown is defendable if it gets found.


Build more FOBs, SL peeps.