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To be honest I think the rpgs are better now once you get used to the drop. I've hit and killed warriors with my first shot on fools road estate with the militia hat at 300M. IMO they are better because you can now fire them over hill or walls and have them land on the other side killing a whole squad of inf that are stacked up. The Panzerfoust hat however I fired for the first time like I would an rpg and had it go 15 feet over a brdm that was 30 feet from me.

I have hope, maybe foolish foolish hope, that the devs are thinking of incorporating some range adjustment system for AT weapons that use them. For an example think of the UBGL, now imagine that functionality with the RPG-7/23 or many LAW variants and even the Pfausts.

In anycase saying that the RUSSIAN/GERMAN HAT is garbage is a shame cause they really aren't. Both have scopes and with a little practice you can be real accurate with them. On flat level terrain the RPG HAT tandem has 350m accuracy to any target lined up with the direct bottom of the scope.

However, the reticle is very misleading because the projectile will always shoot from the center of your screen.

Gracler wrote:Disregard any number you see on the sights since they don't mean anything apparently. Only 1 way of learning these weapons and that's with a lot of practice shots and try to get the feeling of it.

I don't know about the Russian HAT's RPG-7 specifically but most sights that have range indicaters work. At least it works 100% for the OPFOR's SPG. Aiming on the SPG becomes very easy when you use the sights.
(the 2, 3, 4 etc on the right side of the sight resemble x100m distance)

Warning Wall of Text:

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A Test:

Started a local "Deployment" server and tested both Russian and German LATs and HATs both with optics and iron sights over about an 2 hours. I dropped myself multiple crates at the distances 50, 100, 150 and 200 meters away from the vehicle spawns. There was noone shooting at me, the vehicles were stationary, I was settled, had a GTLD to verify distances and a SHEETload of ammo.

It took me about a half hour to destroy all the vehicles in German spawn area from 100 and 150 away.
The time and ammo wasted on the Russian side (from 200m) is near uncountable!

On 50 m a hit is "almost" easy...oc...50 m is no distance in a firefight. But even there you have to aim soo high compared to any video I ever saw of an RPG getting fired.

On 100 m things get tricky, cause you barely can see the target anymore.
PRO-TIP: If you have a marker right on the target at 100 m you can use the little metal tip of the RPG to settle on the marker right above the vehicle. Then you should hit...used that as a test and hit my first and second shot right away on one of the white vehicle wrecks in Al Basrah.

On 150 m you need a stationary target, reference points that are a) far enough away from your target (otherwise you block them too) b) high enough, cause you'll only see them. Make sure you have all 3 of your rockets in your bag, otherwise forget about it.

On 200 m things get really awkward and feel totally silly. You can not see your target at all, every shot is remembering where you set your last one, aim higher and try again and again and again...

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The gameplay (changes) that I found over the last days and weeks were:

- Anyone with an AT weapon better learn to sneak all around the map, 50 behind the vehicles and try to get him from behind or wait in an alley or a room until the vehicle drives by. That seems to be a good point anyway as I hate it how people tend to play as a mixed-dressed bluefor all the time...

- Teach your mates to do the same as you need a constant flood of ammo.

- Infantry still gets killed by RPGs...why not when they are bunched up?

- You aim at a target, guessing the height you'll need, fire your first shot, miss, aim again, shoot again, miss again, cause the vehicle is long gone...

- APC and TANK drivers became even more recklessly and take their stuff right into the cities. That goes well for them much longer than it used to be and I personally think it should be.

- In almost every INS game I see RPG-Artillery now. Almost useless, pretty annoying and super unrealistic! Not only the point that INS don't have so many rockets that they would just spam hundreds of them to maybe hit something.

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My thoughts after loads of games played with 0966:

- The nerf was totally overdone...not so much the drop of the weapon (as one has stated the "arch" can have its advantage too; one would be how you can hit your targets on top even if you are on the same level) but the way how the weapon just makes you blind when you aim high enough is totally "nervig" (annoying) !

- If the the APCs and TANKs should be able to stand in front of a city and pound round after round into it without fearing to lose his beloved asset, just make the front armor even more stable, or make the mass-RPGs on Iraqui-Ins maps a bit less powerful.

- Almost every LAT in the game now has a different place to aim and a different arch...at least it seems like it. That allone makes it almost impossible for a genuine player to hit sth. with his single LAT. I saw i especially on the LAW that it flies like a space-ship compared to the RPG/Panzerfaust. Those seem to be sth. like this:

KiloJules wrote:..
PRO-TIP: If you have a marker right on the target at 100 m you can use the little metal tip of the RPG to settle on the marker right above the vehicle. Then you should hit...used that as a test and hit my first and second shot right away on one of the white vehicle wrecks in Al Basrah. ..

Things like this always amuse me about humanity. That idea is an ingenius way around someone elses attempt to dissuade a certain form of behaviour (in this case firing RPG's beyond 100m). I think it's amazing what people come up with.

No judgement on you btw Kilo, cheers for all the info and for testing the RPG's. Just a very interesting 'fix' for not having adjustable sights. Good effort


Out of interest, in 'Real Life' if you were aiming the RPG so high that the target was buried below the actual warhead in a straight line from your eyes, couldn't the user ajust his aiming stance slightly so he could still see through the sighting gap? Less accurate than using the sights correctly, but more accurate than looking at the moon.

its just a derp rocket now, especially the Russian HAT the sights are completely useless you aim at the 500meter mark and the thing only flies 50-100, you aim at the bottom of the sight it files 150-200

AquaticPenguin wrote:HowStuffWorks "How Rocket-Propelled Grenades Work"

At 11 meters distance 'Rocket fires and boosts speed to 294 meters per second.

Also some basic mechanics suggests that in the 0.1 seconds before the booster ignites, the projectile will have dropped 0.05 meters and be angled down 0.05 degrees from the firing angle.

Ok now this is just ridiculous. (In geeky scientist voice) "Well as you can see the angle of the grenade when it is .05 meters is precisely .05 degrees..."
Are you serious?
Look, this is a video game. It does an amazing job at striving for realism, and it achieves it far better than any other game has. But there comes a point where true realism is either not possible due to engine restrictions, or not feasible. No one wants to get in formation on a parade deck and salute every time an officer comes around.
In situations like these the best way to achieve reality is to simplify it. If the angle of anything is as negligible as .05 degrees, then I think its safe to just maintain a steady zeroed flight path.

Now my opinion of the RPG is that it drops very quickly, and is ineffective at any ranged target. I am not however saying that I want it changed in any way. I am simply stating my thoughts on the current system.

RPG 0.966 :

AIM the sky , shoot your rocket , pray to hit something


lol

killonsight95 wrote:firstly effective range =/= the ditance the projectile will travel.

Also as anyone should well know, all projectiles begin to loose speed as soon as they leave the barrel, and since the RPG is fired in a straight line, unlike rifles in-game with are zero'd to 300-600 meters, the RPG is zero'd to around 10 meters. When the RPG leaves the launcher it has around 10 meters in which to intially fall before it recevies it's boost. During that time the projhectile is traveling around 125-150 M/s.
This slow speed allow the projectile to drop, just like javalins when they pop out the tube before their enginges start, although with RPG's it's a much larger distance and it doesn't have a computer to tell it to go up. During this time the RPG looses height.
When the boosters kick in the rpg could already be pointing towards the ground, that is why you don't fire and RPG while lying down, also not to mention that the heat of the back-blast would darn well hurt.

Oh btw guys, in-game RPG drop being around 30 meters before you notice it, although i think it starts as soon as it leaves the launcher.

I have a pretty strong feeling that that event was taken into account when designing the sights for the weapon so the weapon/sight design negates that slight initial drop.

As of right now they drop far to fast and it is really annoying.

‪First time shooting an RPG-7‬‏ - YouTube

mind the poor choice of music but if you watch this fellow shoot at this pretty distant target on flat ground you see he is aiming basically right at the target, if this vid was made in PR he would look like he is aiming at air planes to hit that target.

‪RPG‬‏ - YouTube
once again seems to go pretty damn fast and straight to me.

LiveLeak.com - RPG-7 on a Firing Range.

once again the RPG flys pretty flat and fast. not slow and arcy

I agree, the RPG has a cartoonish drop now. It reminds me of the tank shells in BF1942 where you would lob them like basketballs. If we're going to keep the painfully unrealistic drop, at least make the sights adjustable like the UBGL.

XRsyst wrote: It reminds me of the tank shells in BF1942 where you would lob them like basketballs.

I thought the same thing the first time I saw the massive drop on my beloved RPG. It takes getting used to but if you use the arch of the rocket to your advantage you get some pretty funny results, unfortunately I doubt the realism.

Also if you read the RPG-7 Tradoc someone posted you will see that you can in fact "fire rapidly from the prone, kneeling, and standing positions" with the weapon(Chapter 2, page 22).

Sneak Attack wrote:I have a pretty strong feeling that that event was taken into account when designing the sights for the weapon so the weapon/sight design negates that slight initial drop.

As of right now they drop far to fast and it is really annoying.

‪First time shooting an RPG-7‬‏ - YouTube

mind the poor choice of music but if you watch this fellow shoot at this pretty distant target on flat ground you see he is aiming basically right at the target, if this vid was made in PR he would look like he is aiming at air planes to hit that target.

‪RPG‬‏ - YouTube
once again seems to go pretty damn fast and straight to me.

LiveLeak.com - RPG-7 on a Firing Range.

once again the RPG flys pretty flat and fast. not slow and arcy

Those videos really tell everything one needs to understand that the current RPG-7 at least is totally unrealistic and nerfed beyond recognition.

And the DEVs are shining with their absence in this thread.

Its most comfortable to fire an rpg launcher when standing, more accurate while kneeling...... more stable while "sitting" (yes I said sitting but on the ground of-course) and more safe from getting spotted while laying down. Unless your as stiff as a 90 year old man it doesn't take much of an effort to bend so that your body is in an angle to the launcher so you avoid any back-blast.

using the Russian AT or the German AT at ranges beyond 250m isn't easy at all because of the huge drop angle you will drop the round behind the target at 260 meters or in-front at 240m. at 350m your out of the scope so saying that it is easy to hit at 400m is just showing off, because you would need to be on top of a hill or have a reference point.

And the DEVs are shining with their absence in this thread.

I thought the discussion was actually pretty interesting to read until that statement tbh mate...but since you think a discussion cannot continue without us...

my personal opinion is that the decreased speed is good, but perhaps the drop is too heavy; however I prefer to rely on the SPG beyond 200m these days since the sights on that are fixed Can hit stuff at 500m with the first shot now

killonsight95 wrote:firstly effective range =/= the ditance the projectile will travel.

Effective range is used in many ways but generally it means the maximum range at which you would have a good chance of hitting your target which is before the bullet starts to drop exponentially which would make it a matter of luck to hit your target and do intended damage.

so if the effective range is 300m means that you can "effectively" engage the vehicle at 300m but if you aim for the moon it could properly travel 1000m or a lot more and function as a hand-held mortar tube.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:I thought the discussion was actually pretty interesting to read until that statement tbh mate...but since you think a discussion cannot continue without us...

my personal opinion is that the decreased speed is good, but perhaps the drop is too heavy; however I prefer to rely on the SPG beyond 200m these days since the sights on that are fixed Can hit stuff at 500m with the first shot now

He probably meant that he wanted to see DEV's view of this thread.

Anyone else notice that LAT kits can take out heavy almost full health APCs now, just with one shot. Took out 2 today with just the LAT. About the RPG BS drop I absolutely concur, its almost useless to make an accurate shot from long distance(>200 metres).

I think that one way around this, at least on insurgency maps, it to lure the blufor forces into the urban areas and hit them at close range with the RPG. I know that this is the insurgents strength when it comes to small arms. If you get in close enough with their forces their long range capabilities are useless. If there is an APC firing into your position, simply retreat farther into the urban center and force them to get closer to you. And remember that defending 1 cache that is in an optimal defensive area is much more effective thatn trying to defend a cache that simply isnt tenable. Losing 1 cashe really isnt a big deal. Let a few go. Choose your battles. As the insurgents, you have that luxury. You hold the initiative.

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rudd;1636078']I thought the discussion was actually pretty interesting to read until that statement tbh mate...but since you think a discussion cannot continue without us...

my personal opinion is that the decreased speed is good, but perhaps the drop is too heavy; however I prefer to rely on the SPG beyond 200m these days since the sights on that are fixed Can hit stuff at 500m with the first shot now [/quote]

I didn't say that I thought a discussion cannot continue without you (DEVs), but since this is such a burning matter it was odd that no DEV had yet taken part in this conversation. And this is pretty much what I meant:

[quote="LieutenantNessie""]He probably meant that he wanted to see DEV's view of this thread.[/quote]

Yes, I too like to rely on SPG on ranges beyond 200m and have done so very successfully but that is a luxury you rarely have in-game.

What I can't wrapy my head around is why the RPG was nerfed and that's why I wanted to hear DEVs' take on it. Gameplay reasons (if so, what?), realism? It's not as if the RPG was way overpowered or too accurate - at least in my opinion.

After playing with RPG's for a while now, since the new patch, I am beginning to understand them better. I do still think the drop is too heavy, but the reduced speed is working good.

At first, I thought the reports of "omg I shot at *insert armoured vehicle here* from 30m and overshot!" were exaggerated, however I experienced the same earlier today on Gaza. The Merkava was in the city and I managed to sneak up on it in a building about 30 meters behind it. I was 3 floors up and aimed directly at the top (where the .50cal gunner was positioned). I was steady for a good 10 seconds before taking the shot, just to see the round drop 5 meters in front of the tank. The round overshot the tank by a good 10 meters.

That put me a bit off, to be fair, but I have also taken out two Namers in a similar fashion that same round. It would appear there is some RNG involved?


In general my findings are:

- Can shoot a round with a fair chance of hitting (>50%) up to about 150 meters.

- Shots up close (<50 meters) are preferred by me, due to the uncertainty when shooting at moving targets. If they are stationary, in most situations I dare take a shot between 100-150 meters. This however leads to about 35/40% hits, registered in the course of the past two weeks.

- Preferred position to shoot: Kneeling. Standing is needed when in a window or something, but it does give a feeling of lesser accuracy.

- HAT RPG's (Russian/Hamas/Militia) do more often not take out an MBT the first hit. Sometimes not even the second round will do the trick. I haven't a clue why this is, but hitting the tank twice on it's back did not destroy a T-90 in Iron Ridge (insurgency) the other night. Needless to say, this was very frustrating.

- Noticed no significant change in strength on the RPG-7 LAT. They still have the RNG effect where sometimes it leaves an APC tracked/destroyed, and sometimes barely damages it. Example 1: Taken a LAT RPG hit to the back of a Stryker on Karbala, leaving us with some 'white smoke'. A second hit on the front armour after that left us with 'grey smoke'. Example 2: Same round, same Stryker. Took 1 RPG to the back after we left our main (ambushed at double mosque) and got destroyed with one hit.



I do think that using RPG's calls for a change in strategy. It's vital to ambush now, and get close and cozy with your target before firing, instead of sniping it from a distance. All in all, I do not mind it very much, however the certainty of hitting your target has been reduced a LOT, compared to the other LAT/HAT kits available.