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lol oh and not to mention, the british get something like 10 tanks later in the round. i have personally counted at least 8-9 tanks sitting in main when i was a chinook pilot. so imagine the entire armour division being used. mec has no chance at all.

Interesting how tanks and armors are the whole discussion here.

Let me get back to my question:

What was the infantry doing all this time? Struggling HOW? You guys didn't lose any trans helos... were you guys lucky or cowards?

Mines_Skyline wrote:lol oh and not to mention, the british get something like 10 tanks later in the round. i have personally counted at least 8-9 tanks sitting in main when i was a chinook pilot. so imagine the entire armour division being used. mec has no chance at all.

More tickets to loose. I've played Burning Sands something like 5-6 times. Every time MEC has won. They did not outcap the Brits, they just held their ground while the Gazelles slaughtered tanks and APCs that the Brits threw at them, basically free tickets.

It's pretty hard for mec inf when the challenger can take a HAT hit and keep on going (happened to me twice today).

Again: are the tanks stronger? didnt find anything on the changelog. Maybe im being paranoid.

CaptainX wrote:Again: are the tanks stronger? didnt find anything on the changelog. Maybe im being paranoid.

I dont think so, it probably matters where you hit it. I had a front hit and a side it and they kept on trucking which is pretty crappy for an infantry unit defending an open area like crash site. They can absorb one HAT hit and come rape before you can reload it.

Solution:



(Seriously, follow the lyrics.)

Gazelle is way too underrated as seen here... It is this far THE MOST OP'd air asset in game. It is faster than apache. You can out manouver AA missile with it. If apache happens to jump on your way (what it should not do since you should be camping in the base) just run back to base.

Everyone disagreeing this should not call em selves as "good atk helo pilot" or such and will get some serious laughts at their face from the serious air asset whores like im.

=HCM= Shwedor wrote:You might lose a Warrior or two, but in an armored battle --->

3 Challengers, 2 warriors, one Scimitar

(six vehicles, APC's armed with a 30mm)

Are a greater force than --->

2 T-72's, 1 BMP

(Three vehicles, BMP Can only engage one target at a time which means that while it is shooting it still has at least two APC's engaging it, and possibly a tank because the British get one more tank than the MEC team. I'm not even going to mention the 30mm MTLB in this armored line up because the MTLB is a joke, a couple clips from a SAW will kill it, might as well like 2 rounds from a 30mm RARDEN)

I believe ive seen a MTLB 30mm with AP rounds that counters the warriors and possibly also the scimitar, even though it has limited munitions.

I also recall driving a MTLB AT, that can be put in an ambush position and take out challengers with 1 hit to the back.

as mentioned the transport heli dosent spawn instantly like the chinook but it will be fixed and then i think the map is quite fair....the only way its going to be 100% fair is if we use Britain vs Britain. Different vehicles different tactics.

goguapsy wrote:Interesting how tanks and armors are the whole discussion here.

Let me get back to my question:

What was the infantry doing all this time? Struggling HOW? You guys didn't lose any trans helos... were you guys lucky or cowards?

Nope,but we got a nice commander and perfect trans-helo pilot,but maybe it's because they never drop troops or supply to the north of city,so you call them "coward".
Infantries,they had a tough night,without armor support,they were raped by tanks apcs and inf in the north of city.......at that time,we cant drop supply or offer them any help



I agree that infantry is the core unit of the war.......

We played Burning Sands as Brits on TG's Password event.

We won because of communications, interaction between armor, air and infantry units.

Most of the time we had an APC or a tank close by to an infantry unit to provide support incase an infantry squad run into trouble, armor was called in to provide crucial support. Our armor had problems dealing with enemy AT infantry squads, when our armor was taken out, Apache was called in its crew (saxoni and trooper) did a great job at providing CAS. Also, if there was a threat it was marked within seconds.


We had A LOT of deaths when we tried to take City Center, but since we had 3 FB's near the city we were able to hold a presence all the time, that was crucial at taking City Center and driving the MEC out.

TL;DR.

Communications are very crucial. To be successful armor units, air units, logistics squad and infantry MUST work closely together. That is true with all aspects of battlefield.

Souls Of Mischief wrote:We played Burning Sands as Brits on TG's Password event.

We won because of communications, interaction between armor, air and infantry units.

Most of the time we had an APC or a tank close by to an infantry unit to provide support incase an infantry squad run into trouble, armor was called in to provide crucial support. Our armor had problems dealing with enemy AT infantry squads, when our armor was taken out, Apache was called in its crew (saxoni and trooper) did a great job at providing CAS. Also, if there was a threat it was marked within seconds.


We had A LOT of deaths when we tried to take City Center, but since we had 3 FB's near the city we were able to hold a presence all the time, that was crucial at taking City Center and driving the MEC out.

TL;DR.

Communications are very crucial. To be successful armor units, air units, logistics squad and infantry MUST work closely together. That is true with all aspects of battlefield.

We also had good communication problem is to defend when the opposite team has air supperiority better tanks, and that MEC also has crash site who has no cover what so ever. Its easy blaming the other team when your winning, with RUdd as com there where always alot of communication and stuff going on. The map is good enough though I dont agree in using crash as a capture point on the other hand, the MECs need some real kickass hardware to have chance atleast on the route we played on TG. In fairness the teams was pretty even in skill and communications it just happened that when the teams are even in skill the hardware to GB makes the GB team alot better.

IF you also see here:
Crash is the next last flag for MEC, teh GB has as long to go with armor as what MEC has that means longer supply routes for MEC when it comes to choppers and repair it also takes the same time for tanks to move from main for both sides if not the Challenger is faster then the T-72. It can be MEC didnt use its hardware to its potential, but for now we are only 32 players on the team and its hard to man every asset at once without loosing the core the infantery.

I was crewing MEC armor that round, and we could've won if it wasn't for the Brits having Apaches (their crew wasn't anything extraordinary, they almost always missed their first pass often leaving us alive to be repaired and return to battle). I think the key for MEC controlling the city is for them first to control the air, we had a severe lack of AA and it always seemed like once we got into a seemingly safe position to support the inf a hellfire splashed down infront/behind us. Rudd was doing a good job keeping our team moving on the right objectives (great job keeping the team cohesive), armor was dealt with accordingly (HAT teams in city, our armour squad controlling crash site almost the entire round), we just couldn't get around the CAS.

TLDR: I'm no pilot, but from the ground it seems to be slim pickings for the Gazelle on that map.

we had a severe lack of AA

twas quite annoying with a lad with the gopher in main and no1 willing to gun for him

btw, I decided where we went wrong last night in our defence, this should have been our layout, with squad 6 and 4 using the HATs
Once we had drawn the enemy out from central city (which worked a treat according to my UAV recon) whichever squad capable of extracting via helicopter would then go central city and cap, and keep capping until the enemy let up on crashsite, allowing more extractions.

All the map needs is : Instant spawning trans heli for MEC.
One Gazelle armed with a 20mm pod on one side and Mistral AA + 1 AT heli.
One extra tank for MEC.
Maybe two troop transport trucks for each team.
No more crash site flag.

After taking a closer look at Burning Sands, I have come to a conclusion that MEC are underpowered on this map. 5 more tanks spawn for the British, while MEC gets only 3 tanks. They do get 2 extra BMP's, but I really haven't seen them being used properly, they do rape VERY hard if used correctly and cautiosly (which doesn't happen often).

Here is a list of British assets.

3 Tanks
1 Warrior
1 Scimi
1 Lynx
1 Chinook

After 20 minutes 5 tanks, 2 Warriors, 1 Scimi, 1 Apache and 1 Chinook (not sure of the spawntime on this one) spawns.

Assets for MEC.

2 T-72
1 BMP-3
1 30mm MTLB (another one spawns near the city with a com truck, think they spawn at the start. not sure, though)

After 20 minutes 3 T-72, 2 BMP-2, 1 30mm MTLB, 1 tank-killer MTLB, 2 Gazelles.

Their choppers spawn after 10 minutes, which is very effed up. Brits can transport 2 squads within two minutes. If Brits are quick they can set up AT defences which will criple MEC armor.

MEC asset list should be looked at. Although BMP's are a great piece of armor, they aren't used properly. I think the assets for both sides should be more of the same and choppers should spawn at the start for the MEC team, too.

If both teams are equally skilled, Brits will win.

don't underestimate the BMP3's ... they can differently take out a Challenger if they shoot first and they eat scimitar's and warriors for breakfast. the bmp3 and the mtlb are also much more agile in the city since they can aim much higher than the warrior and scimitar. Very effective against transport helicopters.

I realized though that if the Brits don't lose the first 3 tanks in the first 20 min they can run 8 tanks at once which is quite impressive,(imagine the Mec commander spotting it with the uav and saying to his team....8 TANKS SPOTTED ) but rather unlikely since it would min. require 16 players to operate.

The fact is that the brits have 8 AT vehicles and the Mec has 9 where as 1 of them is a "glass" cannon that the scimitar can destroy if lucky.

The mtlb30mm has a higher rate of fire than the warrior so id say the mtlb30mm will win most of the fights... there are max 3 of each but 2 scimitars that id guess is 50/50 head on with the mtlb30mm. only 1 scimitar re-spawns though where as the mec always have 2 mtlb30mm.

also the last thing with the low flying Gazelle.....it has 2 back seats that could be used for placing scouts or HAT infantry in the middle of the hole in the desert to sneak up on Armour.

Burning sands has become my new favorite map, no matter which faction i play

A faster deployment of mec could be a turning point though. So spawn of helis at the start could make a difference. But we will see Rudds tactics last night was great, didnt end up really well though since our squad in a BMP-3 I think met up with Scimitar and challenger. And the challenger saw us first. THough I think its a great map, but Mec possibly needs a few more strings to play on.

the points are well taken, and I'll definately tweak the layouts, I plan on redoing the AASv4 layout completely as I'm just not happy with it (its complicated the first time you do it )

changes I plan for 64 layer (some are implemented, some are not)
GB starting assets
minus one C2

MEC starting assets
BTR60 instead of BMP3
1 Mi17 spawning at start, the other delayed

GB respawning assets
minus 1 challenger 2 (leaving 4)

MEC respawning assets
addition of a BTR60
addition of 1-2trucks
swapping 1 havoc in to replace the Gazelles


I am glad people are enjoying it though

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:swapping 1 havoc in to replace the Gazelles

Nooooooo



Maybe one Gazelle and one Eurocopter?