Project Reality Forums

Lugi wrote:The point is the shovel is unuseful and never used by crewmen, but very often used by squadleaders who want to dig something up.

and can't be taken by enemies for ammo

Seems legit, but it's like saying have a death counter on a crewman kit because people use it for the mp5 as mec

Lugi wrote:The point is the shovel is unuseful and never used by crewmen, but very often used by squadleaders who want to dig something up.

useless you mean?


If you'll remove it then squadleaders will take kits like rifleman, these kits contain more usefull things than a crewman kit. So this means more ammo bags near hostile supply crates.


I've been thinking to suggest a shovel kit only by the way and an alternate attack for the shovel to act as a knife or so, but now I understand that these would be useless after seeing this thread.

Triggerfinger wrote:useless you mean?


So this means more ammo bags near hostile supply crates.

Unless you know how to request friendly rifleman kits from hostile crates..

more ammo bags near friendly supply crates, you mean?




Unless you mean the enemies have ammo bags there.. in that case..

That's exactly what he meant. Enemies finding more ammo bags at a friendly supply crate.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:the issue is that squad leaders are idiots then



because they can request rifleman

I get the crewman kit because if an enemy comes up and destroys the firebase, they can't use the Rifleman for whatever reason.

Until the shovel is removed from Crewman, I'll continue with me and my medic using them to build firebases.

Why remove the shovel? Theres no need and its quite fine the way it is. Others have already pointed out the advantage to requesting them over rifleman when it comes to fob digging, no optics, no ammo bags, grenades, incenderaries. And considering most armor have shovels and other similar tools on them anyways... Really why make a fuss over something like this when theres actuall issues to be dealt with.

There is no reason to remove the shovel other than to make it an annoyance for people without shovels. Usually when I play medic, I request a crewman kit so I can help my squad members build, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Dev1200 wrote:...Otherwise, this is kind of a useless topic. How would it be a bug for crewmen to have a shovel? It's not like you can actually use a shovel to build a trench for armor anyway.

your right its not a bug. but it is significant that the crewman kit has a shovel.

example: inf squad bravo has an SL, 3 riflemen, an AR gunner, and a medic. the SL orders the construction of an FOB, a .50 cal hmg placement, and a fox hole. how many shovels can this squad use to build all this? is it 4 (the 3 riflemen and the AR gunner)? no. its 6 because the SL and medic can request a crewman kit for the shovels and help build, only to replace it when the constructions are complete with their previous SL and medic kits.

An informative article about the fighting position of a Russian soldier, and the saperka(shovel):
Operation East Wind - Soviet Fighting Positions

In conclusion: shovels are a MUST Have due to the huge number of necessary functions it is used for in the field.
PR might not replicate all the finer details of those, but the shovel is STILL a very important tool.

If medic and SL kit had one extra slot, they would have shovels.

SnipeHunt wrote:gotta cover their bathroom business somehow.

Squad leaders make the grunts cover theirs.

poor medics just have field dressings to cover theirs.

Snipers just leave the big stinky pile wherever they go.

Ahahaha, I smiled at this.

I think that IRL not many soldiers would carry a shovel anyway (let alone start building stuff), propably only Combat Engineer's and such, and that ofc cant be translated to the PR world. So really the whole shovel business doesn't make all that sense but for gameplay's sake you need it.

Dadavan wrote:I think that IRL not many soldiers would carry a shovel anyway (let alone start building stuff), propably only Combat Engineer's and such, and that ofc cant be translated to the PR world. So really the whole shovel business doesn't make all that sense but for gameplay's sake you need it.

I'm pretty sure that 90% of the soldiers of the Russian and Chinese army carry shovels.

It would depend on the job the soldier would do and where he would do it, but on woodland battlefields the shovel is your best friend since you can dig yourself a trench and avoid mortars and direct fire. Even though trench was more Vietnam and WW2 it is still useful today and im sure that with all these flat desert areas even a small trench would provide you with a decent amount of cover. The thing is that there are so many vehicles that they often are the easy way of providing cover.

Most shovels also have a saw in the handle and therefore you could cut off a few annoying branching when your in a lookout position.

Triggerfinger wrote:I'm pretty sure that 90% of the soldiers of the Russian and Chinese army carry shovels.

Well even if they do I dont think they go around building fortifications do they? and in most pic's i've seen of US & IDF soldiers there were not carrying shovels, but ofc I could be wrong

For a fact, the shovel has become the most important thing next to a soldier's rifle since the Soviet Era:
Operation East Wind - Soviet Fighting Positions

Dadavan wrote:Well even if they do I dont think they go around building fortifications do they? and in most pic's i've seen of US & IDF soldiers there were not carrying shovels, but ofc I could be wrong

They are 1337 0p3r470r5 and have hesco walls composed of pure capitalism.

Read the guide to fighting positions(of soviet army) above to see how the east bloc armies do things.

Think again.

"Ranger Graves" or "Fighting Holes"

Every night.

E-tools *the shovel used by the military can be folded up into a very small space. Hell I could stop by my parents house and find one in the garage. Yes they have them, they had them in WW2 as well, you know that handle you saw on the back of everyones packs? Those were shovels.

charcoaldabs wrote:Think again.

"Ranger Graves" or "Fighting Holes"

Every night.

TBH that is the first time I ever saw U.s military in holes.

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PR Russians need real saperka models.
They are made to not fold to retain durability, and for throwing at/chopping the enemies.

In Sovjet Russia shovel is your primary weapon
But yeah, like charcoaldabs said; most of the special units and active fighting units must have one of these aren't they?

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:don't worry, we'll implement cling film for 1.0

Im holding you to that! <c what i did thar >