Squad members, when do they just not cut it?

[Maverick]

I could go on and on and on... There is no end.

One retarded thing that EVERYBODY does is, when hearing armour, they go looking for it, and when they spot it, they keep on cheking them out until they get shot, and make a stupid face. If that doesnt piss me off enough, medic goes running to him and he gets shot aswell.

Not gonna write anymore because i am hardly resisting all caps rage.

Do it, get your anger out, let the other new people know that some things will NOT be tolerated!

For me, it's something as simple as not following orders, plain and simple.

[Mikemonster]

Ahahaha no young Jedi, this is where you fail...!

[PFunk]

After having a really annoying round today with nothing but scrubs I've come to my conclusion. If you can actually get other players, or you have a couple scrubs an the rest viable, then I would think in the future I'll be doing this:

Do you have a mic?
If no kick.

Are you on mumble?
If he won't join kick.

Stay behind me and don't crest that hill.
If he crests that freaking hill more than once against orders, kick.

Lastly, and most annoyingly, dont' take kits without my say so.
If he takes kits instakick and yell at squad to reiterate point.

I wish I could count not calling out contacts or being really slow to return fire as essential to kicking but honestly, that can be worked on. You just use a lot of strong language and constant reminders until its beat into their brains.

Best solution to crappy squad members is the "NCO" effect. Having one really close and really good PR friend in your squad with you makes it way easier. You're the SL so you can't set the example of how to be a good follower. The 'NCO' can do this, and can use mumble to constantly remind them of what the SL expects.

I've had great success playing with scrubs with the "NCO" effect in... effect.

[Bringerof_D]

Do it, get your anger out, let the other new people know that some things will NOT be tolerated!

For me, it's something as simple as not following orders, plain and simple.

however this is where we have a problem. where does one draw the line between insubordination and perhaps the order being a bad one? i have in many cases been kicked from a squad for "not following orders" simply because i suggested different approaches and pointed out the flaw in the SL's plan/s.

the bottom line is 90% of the time if the guy isnt actually off on his own dickin around or stealing kits or grieving, a bad SM could actually just be a SL's bad habits. In most cases inflexibility.

in the case of PFunks kick if no mumble, i disagree with that method. Mumble is not a necessity for proper function in the mod. Voip does the job just fine in most cases and mumble enhances coms by allowing talk between squads but in no way should be an offense worth kicking a guy for.

a good SL should take into account not only his SM's comfort and abilities but also take into account their personalities and what they came to the game to do. if one guy comes in wanting to F up some tanks i take that into account and change my maneuvers to accommodate for ambushing vehicles. That is the best way to run any squad and the only way to run a pub squad successfully.

there is no fine line between an average SM and a bad one. the only bad ones can be spotted from miles away...some times literally.

[Jolly]

I love medic ! Stay with SL, Save SM's *** , Last one might pick a frag and commit a suicide, Banzai!!BANG!

[Orford]

SM who insists on shooting at every thing that moves. That can make a SL rage quit and start to do some l33t monitor smashing. Especially after walking half the map to flank a well defended cache. Having AR with over watch combat engi with C4 about to do his thing. Then mr j90 starts to shoot at a guy 200mtrs away crossing a road heading home for a brew and a smoke.

alt-f4 winning!

[Smiddey723]

When they take too long to do a simple task e.g. following SL

When they take kits that are totally unnecessary (depending on the situation) without asking

When they wonder off doing their own thing

When medic switches kit without informing SL

[Wicca]

I like Squad members that spaces and cover bearings without me having to tell them. Spacing and fire on target is also nice. I also like Squad members who arent afraid of talking, but gets quiet when i talk. And i like Squad members solving problems or help me solve em.

Most of the time for me pr is best when i can relax, and just play pr with the other Squad leaders, planning ahead on where to go and what to do. Having Squad members that to some degree can stay alive, stick with me and kill alot of badies. Goes far in terms of the tool i want to be on the battlefield. But when it comes to me giving orders it usually involves simple move markers, if someone doesnt get there my way, i tell them to get in line. Its funny how many times poeple say " im under fire!!" but they are not. Sometimes however people go afk or are bleeding and confused. It is important to ensure you dont offend people in your Squad.

I belive in the resposibility of squadleaders providing the fun in pr. Weather it is convincing people to get a mic, explaining people how mumble works, or showing a grunt how to use the hat kit. It must be for the greater good.

FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!

[PFunk]

in the case of PFunks kick if no mumble, i disagree with that method. Mumble is not a necessity for proper function in the mod. Voip does the job just fine in most cases and mumble enhances coms by allowing talk between squads but in no way should be an offense worth kicking a guy for.

I don't take as radical approach as you suggest. Firstly I name my squads usually with the moniker "Mumble Something". This is the new version of those good old "VOIP Inf" squads that were the only ones I'd join back in my early PR days. I believe that Mumble is an essential tool in today's PR and its a tool that nobody should be leaving behind when you go out to play.

With that said I don't just ask if they have mumble and kick if the reply is "No". I make it very easy for them. I will usually stop the squad if I can, and give him time to join mumble, help him if he has issues with it, guide him into the right channel, etc. I prefer to look at my style as promoting the value of mumble by saying "The way I play, and many others, is incompatible without mumble, and it sucks but you can't play with us, but hey if you want to play at the level I require then just get mumble running."

My main reasons are the same ones you give for using mumble at all. Its higher quality of voice chat and I find that too often VOIP is really crackly or people's mics come in really low while in mumble if you come in quiet then your mic sucks or you have your settings wrong. It also allows people to talk more freely without talking over the SL every time. They can say 'did you see something at 220?' to a guy next to them. You say it on voip it overrides what else is being said. Mumble is more organic and conversational and if you need to be heard you raise your voice and talk louder, but VOIP is really a one person at at time chat that I find makes people speak less or leads to a lot of confused comms.

I like to push them out of their comfort zone cause otherwise they won't learn. If you go to the 'abusive SL' thread they'll all be saying the SL can dictate whatever he wants! I think I'm far less severe as many of the people posting there.

I belive in the resposibility of squadleaders providing the fun in pr. Weather it is convincing people to get a mic, explaining people how mumble works, or showing a grunt how to use the hat kit. It must be for the greater good.
FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!

I couldn't agree with you more. I take a big load by SLing pubbies. Its a lot of work cause I don't just surrender to their skill level. I try to bring them up to mine. I'll teach them the stuff I expect, how to call a contact or a bearing, to use mumble instead of VOIP unless guys are out of range, to cover sectors and take cover if we're stopping.

You gotta push them a little or else nobody will grow. And if by forcing them outside of their comfort zones we perform better its like showing them directly what putting a bit more effort will produce.

Fact is though, if I'm not having fun leading them then they cant be having fun following me. Gotta hit that balance is the only way about it.

[goguapsy]

HAhaha yeah, about SLs being resposinble for providing fun...

I believe there is no role that is more stressful and angering as that of a SL. However, there is no more... satisfying gameplay than that of a successful SL.

[Bringerof_D]

I don't take as radical approach as you suggest. Firstly I name my squads usually with the moniker "Mumble Something". This is the new version of those good old "VOIP Inf" squads that were the only ones I'd join back in my early PR days. I believe that Mumble is an essential tool in today's PR and its a tool that nobody should be leaving behind when you go out to play.
.

ah in that case kick away. i personally still make exceptions since some people manage to function fine without voip even when specified VOIP INF. though yes if they join a specified squad and do something else then in most cases i let them know and kick.

lets not stray too far into mumble talk, this is not the case for me but some find the extra people talking makes it hard for them to concentrate or to pick out orders being given to them or another squad. thats why i usually let that slide if it's not too much of a hindrance to do so.

[USMC scout sniper]

squad members going lone wolf sniper and die every time....

[Rudd]

when it comes to mumble, I never enforce it in my squad ever - the reason being that I find mumble users in other squads alot more useful than my own, inter-squad teamwork is where mumble shines, not as much in intra-squad teamwork. (However I find that useful also, for when I just need to talk to the guys next to me, e.g. my fireteam)

[PFunk]

ah in that case kick away. i personally still make exceptions since some people manage to function fine without voip even when specified VOIP INF. though yes if they join a specified squad and do something else then in most cases i let them know and kick.

I find that talking is actually essential. I have a commanding enough voice if I want one. I can raise my voice and not sound like a total *******, so I don't mind lots of chatter as long as they know to shut up when I give clear commands. I feel that people using their voices little is as bad as not firing their rifles. I've had guys who would take fire, start moving to cover, and I'd be asking them why they're not staying with the squad, then we'd all start taking casualties because the first few shots weren't called out and so the enemy got the chance to settle their deviation and zero in on us.

Comms are essential and I find that mumble makes it easier to get them gabbing without it necessarily dominating the comms like it does on VOIP.

[Bringerof_D]

I find that talking is actually essential. I have a commanding enough voice if I want one. I can raise my voice and not sound like a total *******, so I don't mind lots of chatter as long as they know to shut up when I give clear commands. I feel that people using their voices little is as bad as not firing their rifles. I've had guys who would take fire, start moving to cover, and I'd be asking them why they're not staying with the squad, then we'd all start taking casualties because the first few shots weren't called out and so the enemy got the chance to settle their deviation and zero in on us.

Comms are essential and I find that mumble makes it easier to get them gabbing without it necessarily dominating the comms like it does on VOIP.

i've personally never had an issue with lack of communication as i encourage players to be talkative. as for guys who cant, i usually make them understand when they should and should not shoot. there fore when they make contact i know already that the situation is urgent instead of waiting for them to tell me.

[40mmrain]

If I give an order and they dont comply it's an immediate kick.

If they listen to what I say and are average in every other regard then ill gladly keep them

[saXoni]

Would you kick your squad-member if he's trying to follow your orders, but is horrible at it?

[PFunk]

Would you kick your squad-member if he's trying to follow your orders, but is horrible at it?

I've never done that. I'm not that cruel. If they're obviously shite at something I'll either tell him to switch his kits or take a minute to really try and work it through with him.

[saXoni]

I've never done that. I'm not that cruel. If they're obviously shite at something I'll either tell him to switch his kits or take a minute to really try and work it through with him.

Good.

[Rudd]

I've never done that. I'm not that cruel. If they're obviously shite at something I'll either tell him to switch his kits or take a minute to really try and work it through with him.

Yeah, I generally just go "sorry mate, I think someone else better take the X kit, grab a rifleman and just follow me, do as I do"